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There I was: A little war story of one hauler v. 6-ship w-space PvP fleet [ADHC]
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Anvil44
Avedis Corporation
The Vanguard Syndicate
#41 - 2012-03-19 16:53:16 UTC
When in a WH I too live in fear of a POS bash fleet showing up.

My little story of 'hauler that could' was going to POCOs to grab my loot using DST (needed the space). As I am traveling around and near the end of my jumps from one POCO to the next, I see a T3 on scan. I figure the POCOs maybe camped or watched, will have to be alert. I am at my second last stop. I get my loot and start my warp. Just before I am ready to warp a T3 shows up. I warp before he gets a lock

I am now on my way to the last POCO. As I am getting near I now have 2 T3s on my scan. My heart rate starts to go up(I am not a PvPer...yet). I land at the POCO, everything is ready to transfer, all windows are open. I start my warp out immediately, then do my transfers. One T3 is there now and starts targeting me. Done. He tries to jam/scramble my warp. The other T3 warps in. Come on ya slow bastard align and warp...another lock attempt. If he locks and they are both using scramblers, I am toast

Then I warp away in victory

Through it all, I found that my procedure that I follow time after time when doing these shuttle jobs was what kept me from screwing up. Come up with a method, then always repeat it, even in high sec if possible, even when you believe you are totally safe. Then habit takes over when it's go time and you have a better chance of survival

And yes, if they had both been using warp scramblers and both locked me, I would've been caught but I had faith that my process would protect me from just this type of occurrence, the random opportunity and attempt at catching someone asleep at the wheel. If it had been some of my other corp mates, they would've been popped, cause not everyone uses DST.

You can never be too careful in a WH. I have been podded enough times to know that.

And I am glad to see OP and ADHOC both have the right attitude. It's a game, have fun and play.

I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2012-03-19 18:42:01 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
How did you get past the final exit-camp? Just waited them out or snuck through?


Yes. I went off for dinner, and by the time I returned they had moved on to trying to kill something else.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Bernie Nator
Seal Club Six
Plug N Play
#43 - 2012-03-19 19:14:47 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
Bernie Nator wrote:
discordigant wrote:
Bernie Nator wrote:
When's "Part Two: Ninja installation of a pos" going up?


Maybe you should get to writing that story Mr Nator, you guys have a little experience in that department...

After a brief altercation wherein we gave one of their pilots a one way high sec ticket, they realized that their cause was lost. They began to unanchor modules, put them into ships, and promptly self destructed them. The horror! The shock! The awe! The tears! What's worse, they then pulled all of what they could from the corporate hangar array into...

Jetcans.


I really do.



I don't get this part. Was their plan to deny you phat lewt by putting it in jetcans hoping their timer would run out before the shield went down? Hell, they could just shoot it themselves. Why not put everything in the corporate hangar? When that goes poof it doesn't leave anything right?


When a CHA goes down, everything inside it gets ejected into jetcans. I can now confirm that they are ejected all their phat lewts into space so we don't get them. Spoil sports. They also had a self destruct party that we were not invited to. I has a massive sad, and yet, I'm ecstatic that we're about to take down their pos and make them go back into high sec where they clearly belong.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#44 - 2012-03-20 09:48:37 UTC
Bernie Nator wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:
Bernie Nator wrote:
discordigant wrote:
Bernie Nator wrote:
When's "Part Two: Ninja installation of a pos" going up?


Maybe you should get to writing that story Mr Nator, you guys have a little experience in that department...

After a brief altercation wherein we gave one of their pilots a one way high sec ticket, they realized that their cause was lost. They began to unanchor modules, put them into ships, and promptly self destructed them. The horror! The shock! The awe! The tears! What's worse, they then pulled all of what they could from the corporate hangar array into...

Jetcans.


I really do.



I don't get this part. Was their plan to deny you phat lewt by putting it in jetcans hoping their timer would run out before the shield went down? Hell, they could just shoot it themselves. Why not put everything in the corporate hangar? When that goes poof it doesn't leave anything right?


When a CHA goes down, everything inside it gets ejected into jetcans. I can now confirm that they are ejected all their phat lewts into space so we don't get them. Spoil sports. They also had a self destruct party that we were not invited to. I has a massive sad, and yet, I'm ecstatic that we're about to take down their pos and make them go back into high sec where they clearly belong.


*shakes his head* Simply self-destructing stuff whenever you're losing is such typical carebear behaviour. At the very least they could have tried to use it as a negotiating tactic. This 'we don't negotiate with griefers' attitude just means both sides will be left standing with nothing. Being so focused on making money, carebears surprisingly often make the wrong decisions whenever they stand to lose some of that money.

Good to know that CHA drops stuff. If only that was the case for Orcas as well.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Versuvius Marii
Browncoats of Persephone
Ironworks Coalition
#45 - 2012-03-20 10:30:37 UTC
Memoocan wrote:
I hadn't realized we were e-famous.

I wasn't there but my corpmate that was has asked that I paste this for him:

"Is this about that small tower that we couldn't be bothered with enough to go back the 3 jumps home to get a hauler?

Survived ADHC, my ass, who gives a **** about a small tower. I was tooling around in an Ishtar at the low sec exit hoping a Loki would engage, little did I know this guy was triple boxing (scout in the low sec system, cloaky Loki at the low sec wormhole, and the prowler for the small tower. Between ships, clones and time wasted waiting for small tower to unanchor he was "risking" more assets than the tower was worth.

He didn't even mention my Ishtar, and how he only waited til I was gone from dscan to try for the POS. It sat unanchored for a good 10 minutes while I sat at the low sec wormhole semi AFK "reading" the babe thread on failheap real hard hoping a cloaky Loki pilot finds some balls."


It's hard to bore ADHC, we wait 3 hours for a cov ops on a hole. But some things just aren't worth it lol

But cheers for the escape, that was well earned. Amusing read as well.

Sweet tears, dude. You got blueballed bad.

The Gaming MoD - retro to modern, console to MMO, I blog about it if it's a game and I'm interested in it. Yes, I play games other than Eve and I don't care if you think I'm wrong.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-03-20 12:06:37 UTC
Versuvius Marii wrote:
Sweet tears, dude. You got blueballed bad.

this

I should buy an Ishtar.
Sola Mercury
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2012-03-20 16:44:43 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:


*shakes his head* Simply self-destructing stuff whenever you're losing is such typical carebear behaviour. At the very least they could have tried to use it as a negotiating tactic. This 'we don't negotiate with griefers' attitude just means both sides will be left standing with nothing. Being so focused on making money, carebears surprisingly often make the wrong decisions whenever they stand to lose some of that money.



They deny to give ISK as a gift to the enemy. I'd call it PVP.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2012-03-20 20:25:26 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
*shakes his head* Simply self-destructing stuff whenever you're losing is such typical carebear behaviour. At the very least they could have tried to use it as a negotiating tactic. This 'we don't negotiate with griefers' attitude just means both sides will be left standing with nothing. Being so focused on making money, carebears surprisingly often make the wrong decisions whenever they stand to lose some of that money.

Good to know that CHA drops stuff. If only that was the case for Orcas as well.



I figured people SD to get the insurance payout. I mean if you are gonna lose the ships anyhow, and don't want that lossmail, you'd at least get some isk for it.

I've never SD a ship so I dunno if you get insurance, just making that (possibly bad) assumption
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2012-03-20 21:23:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Substantia Nigra
Tobiaz wrote:

Bernie Nator wrote:

They began to unanchor modules, put them into ships, and promptly self destructed them. The horror! The shock! The awe! The tears! What's worse, they then pulled all of what they could from the corporate hangar array into ... Jetcans.

*shakes his head* Simply self-destructing stuff whenever you're losing is such typical carebear behaviour. At the very least they could have tried to use it as a negotiating tactic. This 'we don't negotiate with griefers' attitude just means both sides will be left standing with nothing. Being so focused on making money, carebears surprisingly often make the wrong decisions whenever they stand to lose some of that money.


I am having some difficulty understanding your response here Tobiaz.

If Bernie brings his team of banshees into one of my systems and is hell-bent on mayhem and destruction I simply do not have the PvP resources to vapourise him. If I did, I would.

If this were to happen, I'd be figuring that his bunch is motivated by some combination of lust ("gonna kill something, make ppl unhappy, and mebbe extract tears" etc), greed ("We wants your system, or we wants your stuff" etc), and wrath ("Sweet, sweet revenge, for [whatever]") and I would be working hard to deny him as much of what he wants as I can.
Applying this logic I will be working hard to prevent Bernie's gang from getting their rocks off .... now that I have had the metaphor 'blueballing' explained to me. I want to minimise the pleasure they obtain from attacking me and my system.
So I would be:
- Trying hard to not get upset (It's just a game) ... however difficult that might be ... and no matter how upset I actually am, to not show it in any way. Aim: Reduce the return on their lust.
- Removing as many of my valuables as I can from the reach of their grasping little hands. Cloaky logoffski orcas full if I can manage it, cloaky logoffski expensive ships, jet-can and self destruct [1] everything else. Aim: Reduce the greed return.
- Spending some time POS-gunning and trying to mebbe get a wee kill or two. Aim: Reduce their fun just a little.

It seems odd [2] to me to try badmouthing that approach Tobiaz when it seems a perfectly reasonable and logical response to being attacked by an over whelming force. Work hard to **not** give them what they're after, and if you can't deny them completely work hard to give them as little of what they're after as you can achieve.

Sure, I have other options (some including things like those duck-consuming-narwhals) but they're likely to be way more expensive than this approach .... and may well endup having me paying isk to give bernie's banshees part of what they might be after, a fight.


1. None of my ships are insured so self-destructibng for insurance payout is not an option.
2. LOL, I had the word q.u.e.e.r here, but obviously it has some other troubling meaning and was censored into a line of asterixes.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#50 - 2012-03-22 01:13:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
My observation is more of a general nature about carebears self-destructing their stuff whenever they get stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Playing the waiting game definitely works great, trying to get rid of roaming players looking for targets of opportunity. But trying to 'condition' them and correct 'pirate' behavior by not letting them have either fun or loot? You really think that's going to work? Next time they'll just go after you just the same.

Self-destructing their stuff, meaning throwing away whatever cards in their hard: I never get that about carebears. For a type of player that are so focused on possessions and ISK, whenever they get trapped and it's time to make a wise decision or a smart gamble to keep some of it, carebears usually just get stubborn and throw it all away instead (often followed by whining on the forums about pirates being bullies).

Just sitting on a pile of shinies, they might let you get away with some of it, if you just threaten to blow it all to kumquat kingdom. instead. Don't immediately press that button by default, is all I say.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#51 - 2012-03-22 01:34:47 UTC
LOL, the ninja-edit.

I had started to respond and then noticed that your posting had changed.

Swift Big smile

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#52 - 2012-03-22 01:38:39 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
LOL, the ninja-edit.

I had started to respond and then noticed that your posting had changed.

Swift Big smile



Yeah bad writer's habit of mine: edit, edit, edit...

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
discordigant
Doomheim
#53 - 2012-03-22 01:52:36 UTC  |  Edited by: discordigant
Well when your invaded you really need to consider your position and that of your opponent .

I personally never keep my ISK footprint that high in the WH and my ISK is certainly not kept at the tower it is inside fail safe alts that do not regularly log on and only log on at safe spots equipped with scanner and cloak. I would dependent on the invading force see it as a good chance for some free fights, a large alliance i would simply remove everything that is savable and yes i would SD it all in front of them so that they go through the whole tower destruction for nothing.

After they destroy my tower many will then on sell the hole. This i chooses as an extra time for free pvp and will remove resources.


Now all your response will hinge on your opponent, some will be looking for a weak opponent for the hope of easy ISK and some kills on the side, again dependent on your ISK footprint a merc corp may serve. A large alliance like Bernies most often do invasions for practice and loot as a bonus, they will not allways pick easy targets and often pick targets that require them to do fleet compositions and target member levels they would like more practice on and hiring a merc corp only serves to give them more of the practice and development they want in the first place.

EDIT: Damn draft swallowed half my text
Bernie Nator
Seal Club Six
Plug N Play
#54 - 2012-03-25 02:13:25 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:

Bernie Nator wrote:

They began to unanchor modules, put them into ships, and promptly self destructed them. The horror! The shock! The awe! The tears! What's worse, they then pulled all of what they could from the corporate hangar array into ... Jetcans.

*shakes his head* Simply self-destructing stuff whenever you're losing is such typical carebear behaviour. At the very least they could have tried to use it as a negotiating tactic. This 'we don't negotiate with griefers' attitude just means both sides will be left standing with nothing. Being so focused on making money, carebears surprisingly often make the wrong decisions whenever they stand to lose some of that money.


I am having some difficulty understanding your response here Tobiaz.

If Bernie brings his team of banshees into one of my systems and is hell-bent on mayhem and destruction I simply do not have the PvP resources to vapourise him. If I did, I would.

If this were to happen, I'd be figuring that his bunch is motivated by some combination of lust ("gonna kill something, make ppl unhappy, and mebbe extract tears" etc), greed ("We wants your system, or we wants your stuff" etc), and wrath ("Sweet, sweet revenge, for [whatever]") and I would be working hard to deny him as much of what he wants as I can.
Applying this logic I will be working hard to prevent Bernie's gang from getting their rocks off .... now that I have had the metaphor 'blueballing' explained to me. I want to minimise the pleasure they obtain from attacking me and my system.
So I would be:
- Trying hard to not get upset (It's just a game) ... however difficult that might be ... and no matter how upset I actually am, to not show it in any way. Aim: Reduce the return on their lust.
- Removing as many of my valuables as I can from the reach of their grasping little hands. Cloaky logoffski orcas full if I can manage it, cloaky logoffski expensive ships, jet-can and self destruct [1] everything else. Aim: Reduce the greed return.
- Spending some time POS-gunning and trying to mebbe get a wee kill or two. Aim: Reduce their fun just a little.

It seems odd [2] to me to try badmouthing that approach Tobiaz when it seems a perfectly reasonable and logical response to being attacked by an over whelming force. Work hard to **not** give them what they're after, and if you can't deny them completely work hard to give them as little of what they're after as you can achieve.

Sure, I have other options (some including things like those duck-consuming-narwhals) but they're likely to be way more expensive than this approach .... and may well endup having me paying isk to give bernie's banshees part of what they might be after, a fight.


1. None of my ships are insured so self-destructibng for insurance payout is not an option.
2. LOL, I had the word q.u.e.e.r here, but obviously it has some other troubling meaning and was censored into a line of asterixes.


Oh man, was so busy this week didn't notice the update to the thread.

Usually, if you see us show up, it means that your pos is a pretty soft target. That said, we have all sorts in the group, and all of us want to see you either dead or removed from the system in such a way that you have to abandon ship. Like, if you move an orca to a safe spot, but didn't load a probe launcher on and we've killed all your scouts, we count that as a win mostly because you have one of two options left. Neither of them involve that orca leaving system. Both involve you podding yourself. Counts as a win win really.

Although we have been known to accept and honor ransoms. If we're feeling real good about it, we'll even throw in some advice, like "add more guns", or "use the carrier you stupidly built in a c2" or something like that.

At the end of the day, we're just playing EVE the way we want to. Sometimes that means others have to die. Sometimes it means we get a fun story. (Remind me to tell you about my CNR that took a dread, carrier, and loki a bit of time to kill) Most times, it means playing games with friends.

And holes. Damn I love holes.
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