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What do Incursioners add to the EVE universe?
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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#41 - 2012-03-07 20:00:05 UTC
It helps highsecers get together and have fun!
And yes I do add Harbi's & non shiney ships in my fleets so they can get off the ground & regularly flame the elitists whom try to laugh newbies out of the incursion channels I recruit out of
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#42 - 2012-03-07 20:17:16 UTC
Just move incursions to lowsec, and we end the countless nerf/end incursion threads.

Its lowsec, it would give it a purpose, it would give incurions an isk sink, it would add RISK to incursions (which there is far to little of in those vanguards).

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Anastasia Shimaya
Doomheim
#43 - 2012-03-07 20:17:19 UTC
So from what I read from both pro/anti Incursionist is

-90% of EVE careers/activities are reduced to charity events that "incursioners" might try then laugh at how incursions make more is
-Incursions nullify null/low sec, hence turning null sec just another undesirable wasteland to lose your ship (At least for the "grunts"
-Incursioners make so much, they have to buy the mods for nullsecers CAN'T afford doing just null activities (So wait before incursions no one could afford the shiny mods, OR because of incursion inflation normal nullsecers can't afford them now?
-AND something about moongoo, even though you have to DEFEND that territory to get moongoo, while incursions are rained down on you from the space heavens with no extra cost, lo

[u]Also based on what I read and see think this chart spells out incursions:[/u
Incursion> Miner
Incursion> Salvager
Incursion> Owning a highsec/lowsec corp
Incursion> Pirate
Incursion> PI
Incursion> Trading
Incursion> Hauling
Incursion> Manufacturer
Incursion> Scammer
Incursion> Null Sec grunt (90 to 95 percent of null residence)
Incursion> PVP
Incursion> Most PVE
Incursion> Wormholes (Since WH sites can't be farmed for hours with super bounties
Incursion> Exploration (Unless you get really lucky or do a nice plex)


Only change that would seem sensible is to just give some incentive to popping the MOM ship, cause the way things are now its better to protect it then to kill it, which lets you know game mechanics are horribly wrong
Chevy Shockwave
Doomheim
#44 - 2012-03-07 20:37:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Chevy Shockwave
The two WORST arguments I hear are
"They help us get in fleets and have fun"
and
"We are paying customers and adding to CCP's wallet"

1) If fleeting is all you wanted to do you shouldn't mind less of a incursion bounty paycheck... or just make them like sleepers and make it all about the loot or at least some INCENTIVE to kill the MOM ship... of course you won't want that cause then you'll actually have to put some effort into making billions a day

2) NEWFLASH... see that solo miner in the Bantam mining veldspar with 2 lasers? Guess what... hes a paying customer too, should CCP give him billions also... based on what you say everyone who can't do incursions should/would leave EVE (More CCP doomsday threats if the IWIN button is removed)

And looking at the BTL Incursion channel look like at most its 1000 people, out of the average 30k, 40k that are online at one time... didn't CCP ban a 1000+ bot accounts just a short time ago, I doubt they will miss 1000 Incursionist rage quitting cause they lost their IWIN button and actually had to contribute to the sandbox to make isk
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-03-07 21:45:01 UTC
Anastasia Shimaya wrote:

Incursion> Miner
Incursion> Salvager
Incursion> PI

Given the number of people doing these reduces the value of the activity for any one person, and that there are alot of people doing them, this is expected. They are outpaced by most forms of PvE when done efficiently over the same span of time.
Anastasia Shimaya wrote:
Incursion> Hauling

Never knew this to be a terribly high earning profession
Anastasia Shimaya wrote:
Incursion> Most PVE
Incursion> Null Sec grunt (90 to 95 percent of null residence)

CCP has stated that group PvE should pay higher than solo PvE. While true rewards do need tweaked, changing this dynamic means that incursions become worthless.
Anastasia Shimaya wrote:
Incursion> PVP
Incursion> Pirate

Don't PvP much. But that seemed more a loosing affair over all outside of ganking, and even then it depends on the frequency of high value targets.
Anastasia Shimaya wrote:
Incursion> Trading
Incursion> Scammer
Incursion> Manufacturer
Incursion> Owning a highsec/lowsec corp
Incursion> Wormholes (Since WH sites can't be farmed for hours with super bounties
Incursion> Exploration (Unless you get really lucky or do a nice plex)

Millage seems to vary. I know many who do things on this list that see no reason to bother with incursions, either because they make the similar amounts effortlessly or make more with the same time/effort.
Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-03-09 16:25:03 UTC
TheBreadMuncher wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
They add a massive isk fountain, which increases the price of everythign as there is more isk than anyone sane would ever need to play spaceships with. And I suppse they might be tempted to RMT with it, I mean Misanth says he made 21 billion isk in a month, that would be a nice little earner on the side wouldnt it?


That's convenient - your alliance is making billions a month moon mining! I suppose one highseccer RMTing would be awful, but your alliance botting is fine?



This discussion is about incursions, not nullsec. Our alliance has a fully transparent and documented financial division, you wouldnt believe what they spend if I told you , ship replacements, sov costs, buying supers for members.. Yes tens of billions in income that supports a thousands strong alliance and every isk is spent back on the corp members one way or another. FA has that tens of billions of isk income its an alliance of thousands. What we are talking about in incursions is individuals who can personally make tens of billions in almost complete safety.

So, tbh I would keep quiet before you make yourself look even more stupid.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#47 - 2012-03-09 16:37:58 UTC
Anastasia Shimaya wrote:
Was looking at the new website and noticed the "career paths" listed (Pirate, salvager, miner, etc) I noticed all those career paths contributed not only to the individual but the EVE universe as a whole (butterfly effect)

For example let say Player A wanted to be a pirate, instantly he has decided to provide pvp content (consensual and unconsensual pvp) to the EVE universe, sometimes he'll win (kills, gear, tears) and sometimes he'll lose (Gets killed, loses gear, gives tears)
Its the beauty of EVE... give and take, risk and reward, and at the end it contributes to adding content for everyone else.

Then you look at an Incursioner.
What does he add to the rest of the EVE universe (players) does his "career path" have a give and take/risk & reward/ pro and con
Well lets see:
Player A decides he wants to do highsec incursions, and basically does group pve. He makes a TON of isk basically rendering any other career path useless for him. At the end (well when the site eventually stops getting farmed) he counts his isk and decides this is the only thing for him and docks his ship waiting for another incursion

Did Player A add to the wider EVE universe?No
Is there any incentive for Player A to choose any other career path that might add to EVE as a whole?No
Are there any "Sometimes you're the bug, sometimes you're the windshield" risk for incursioners?No

So what does the Incursioner add to the EVE universe content wise? Nothing (Unless inflation and incursion powerblocks with unlimited money that get to decide who gets to do incursions and who gets merc wardeced is content)
Basically its all take and no give, EVE welfare queens lol

The only thing incursioners do is freeload off the work of everyone else(ship builders, miners, scientist, traders, etc), while those same workers isk get them less and less cause incursioners are buying up and raise the prices. Not to mention that perfect security is provided (Concord) so unless you plan to gank, those ships are untouchable.

NOTE:And please don't say "It helps highsecers get together and have fun" I've seen guys get laughed out of the incursion channel for not having a "minimum" pimped out faction/officer/deadspace fitted Nightmare... the vast majority of highsec don't even get to do incursions

And before any claims of tears are made (lol) I live in a wormhole Cool
Incursion Bears attack formation: FlameX


Chevy Shockwave wrote:
The two WORST arguments I hear are
"They help us get in fleets and have fun"
and
"We are paying customers and adding to CCP's wallet"

1) If fleeting is all you wanted to do you shouldn't mind less of a incursion bounty paycheck... or just make them like sleepers and make it all about the loot or at least some INCENTIVE to kill the MOM ship... of course you won't want that cause then you'll actually have to put some effort into making billions a day

2) NEWFLASH... see that solo miner in the Bantam mining veldspar with 2 lasers? Guess what... hes a paying customer too, should CCP give him billions also... based on what you say everyone who can't do incursions should/would leave EVE (More CCP doomsday threats if the IWIN button is removed)

And looking at the BTL Incursion channel look like at most its 1000 people, out of the average 30k, 40k that are online at one time... didn't CCP ban a 1000+ bot accounts just a short time ago, I doubt they will miss 1000 Incursionist rage quitting cause they lost their IWIN button and actually had to contribute to the sandbox to make isk


Your post is one of the most absolutely awful, misinformed bad posts I have seen in a while. Everyone who makes or buys a toon capable of running incursions is also capable of making MORE money than People who run Incursions.

Secondly, your logic is based on complete fallacy. If you actually ever produced a ship you would know that when the price of minerals goes up the price of ships also goes up. Traditionally, and including now, the price of ships goes up in higher proportion than the minerals, and then balances back. So my shipmaker alt gets filthy rich while never running an Incursion.

Thirdly, if you were crafty, you would sell whatever goods you are peddling in the local Incursion sites, where they go for up to double traditional market price.

You really have not thought your post out. You heard Incursions make a lot of money and got jealous. You didn't really think about the people that make more money than Incursion runners right there in hisec. You didn't think about the overall market impact of Incursions, you only thought about the current inflation that is partially based on Incursion running.


internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#48 - 2012-03-09 17:09:55 UTC
Incursioneers just play the game like many others.
They found the min max FOTM niche and exploit it at full before some giant nerf bat comes.

Then they'll switch over the next FOTM niche, like many others do in every MMO.

Humans = grasshoppers. They jump on the best thing, suck it dry and devastate it, then jump on the next.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#49 - 2012-03-09 21:36:43 UTC
Chevy Shockwave wrote:
The two WORST arguments I hear are
"They help us get in fleets and have fun"



wtf?!?!?! iTS A GAME i PLAY TO HAVE FUN lol how can my fun be the worst agruement for you unless you are some socipathic troll whom only gets his rocks off by denying other peoples' having fun and fleeting with others??? 
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#50 - 2012-03-09 21:45:44 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
TheBreadMuncher wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
They add a massive isk fountain, which increases the price of everythign as there is more isk than anyone sane would ever need to play spaceships with. And I suppse they might be tempted to RMT with it, I mean Misanth says he made 21 billion isk in a month, that would be a nice little earner on the side wouldnt it?


That's convenient - your alliance is making billions a month moon mining! I suppose one highseccer RMTing would be awful, but your alliance botting is fine?



This discussion is about incursions, not nullsec.


Incursions are also a part of NULL SEC & lo sec. Reason why moons should be included here is that they are a NULL SEC mineral fountain much like Incursions have become a hi sec ISK fountain. These 2 fountains actually completement each other creating interactions between hi & NULL SEC. Incursion runners need T2 products created by the NULL sec fountain & NULL sec'ers need isk to replace ships. Mess with one expect problems with the other
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#51 - 2012-03-09 21:47:30 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
TheBreadMuncher wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
They add a massive isk fountain, which increases the price of everythign as there is more isk than anyone sane would ever need to play spaceships with. And I suppse they might be tempted to RMT with it, I mean Misanth says he made 21 billion isk in a month, that would be a nice little earner on the side wouldnt it?


That's convenient - your alliance is making billions a month moon mining! I suppose one highseccer RMTing would be awful, but your alliance botting is fine?



This discussion is about incursions, not nullsec.


Incursions are also a part of NULL SEC & lo sec. Reason why moons should be included here is that they are a NULL SEC mineral fountain much like Incursions have become a hi sec ISK fountain. These 2 fountains actually completement each other creating interactions between hi & NULL SEC. Incursion runners need T2 products created by the NULL sec fountain & NULL sec'ers need isk to replace ships. Mess with one expect problems with the other... Also incursion runners have access to CONCORD lp that NULL needs for many CAPITOL ship module bpc's and POCOs

An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Farang Lo
Doomheim
#52 - 2012-03-09 21:56:32 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
TheBreadMuncher wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
They add a massive isk fountain, which increases the price of everythign as there is more isk than anyone sane would ever need to play spaceships with. And I suppse they might be tempted to RMT with it, I mean Misanth says he made 21 billion isk in a month, that would be a nice little earner on the side wouldnt it?


That's convenient - your alliance is making billions a month moon mining! I suppose one highseccer RMTing would be awful, but your alliance botting is fine?



This discussion is about incursions, not nullsec.


Incursions are also a part of NULL SEC & lo sec. Reason why moons should be included here is that they are a NULL SEC mineral fountain much like Incursions have become a hi sec ISK fountain. These 2 fountains actually completement each other creating interactions between hi & NULL SEC. Incursion runners need T2 products created by the NULL sec fountain & NULL sec'ers need isk to replace ships. Mess with one expect problems with the other

so what happend before incursion??
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#53 - 2012-03-09 22:01:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Cambarus
First off you really need to specify when complaining about incursions that you mean vanguards and not assaults/HQs. The former being a tad overdone and in need of a slight nerf, and the latter being in need of a slight buff, if anything.

A high end mission runner can pull in 60-70mil an hour doing level 4s in highsec, so high end incursion runners should be pulling in maybe 100ish in vanguards, since they have competition, can't be run with the same consistency and require a well coordinated group.

Second, incursions add content that encourages people to work together in highsec, something that has been missing for quite some time, as well as pve with competition.

Third, it's worth noting that a good chunk of the professions out there only add things that worsen the gameplay of others. The thrill/ satisfaction that comes from pvp only exists because you KNOW how bad it sucks to be on the losing side. When you complain by comparing incursions to pirating, you're basically saying that incursions are bad because they arent directly screwing anyone over.

Edit: The nullsec nerf was uncalled for, and making most nullsec worth less than highsec WITHOUT even counting incursions was a terrible idea on CCPs part. Revert nullsec to how it used to be, kthanx
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#54 - 2012-03-09 23:46:10 UTC
Farang Lo wrote:
[so what happend before incursion??


Before Incursions there was a big imbalance between Hi Sec & Lo Sec fountains. 
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#55 - 2012-03-09 23:54:28 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
Edit: The nullsec nerf was uncalled for, and making most nullsec worth less than highsec WITHOUT even counting incursions was a terrible idea on CCPs part. Revert nullsec to how it used to be, kthanx


I almost completely agree... damed NULL nerf created a situation where the competition is insane with an explosion in Incursion runners which is still felt in overcrowding... Only nice thing is I hear about stories from null sec pilots I FC for which makes me a bit interested in visiting there after I skill up to 17-20 million SP from my current 14
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-03-10 00:07:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Incursions create customers for The Mittani's award-winning third party service.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#57 - 2012-03-10 00:39:00 UTC
High Sec Incursions doesn't add anything good to EVE, CCP should either remove them or radically change the mechanics.
gfldex
#58 - 2012-03-10 01:17:52 UTC
Rising trit and pyerite prices. I'm actually quite happy about that contribution. It makes turning ships into profits a little easier.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Farang Lo
Doomheim
#59 - 2012-03-10 04:08:10 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Farang Lo wrote:
[so what happend before incursion??


Before Incursions there was a big imbalance between Hi Sec & Lo Sec fountains.


any proof to back it up???
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#60 - 2012-03-10 04:26:29 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Xorv wrote:
High Sec Incursions doesn't add anything good to EVE, CCP should either remove them or radically change the mechanics.


Having fun in hi sec I guess adds nothing good to Eve for you so we should just make all HI sec into lo sec problem settled huh? Eve would DIE in 6 months
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'