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Taking down a Dominix and other battleships
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Steam Cat
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-03-06 18:52:22 UTC
I've got access to gallente and caldari cruisers,battlecruisers as well as a manticore. What fits would you recommend for taking down a dominix or other battleship sized targets?

My current thinking is the manticore is my best bet but I've got to worry about those drones and keeping a point on the target. I don't suppose I could hope to surprise them at 70km and kill them before they warp out?

Btw yes I'm a total noob.
Ahrieman
Codex Praedonum
Divine Damnation
#2 - 2012-03-06 19:04:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Ahrieman
How many people are with you? What can they fly? What is the security of the space you are talking (high sec, low sec, null/w-space)?

A single stealth bomber will most likely have tough times with the drones. Also, you will need someone to point the Domi and there is the ever present threat of neuts.

People here could give you more feedback if we had a better understanding of exactly what you are trying to do and with what resources.

EDIT: Last night we were feeling suicidal enough to try to take down a Domi with 2 bombers and 2 Drams, but we couldn't get him to aggres or leave the gate.

Solo Rifter since 2009
Steam Cat
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-03-06 19:24:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Steam Cat
Sorry. High sec, 1v1 against a pve fitted dominix in gallente space. I'm in a very small corp so can't rely on them for help.
Ahrieman
Codex Praedonum
Divine Damnation
#4 - 2012-03-06 19:38:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Ahrieman
His dps will all come from drones and he is unlikely to be running around with neuts on his pve Domi.

First of all, you will not be able to pop a pve Domi with a bomber from 70k if he is smart enough to warp off, and he will have enough time. Based on the ships you can fly, a bomber might not be a bad choice. The trick will be making sure that you can perma run your MWD and that you are faster that Warrior II's with it on. Of you can do both of these things, then I would say it's worth trying in a bomber. A manticore would be a nice option for this and to just orbit at 18k - thus keeping your speed up and keeping him pointed, but making it hard for his drones to deal with you easily.

The other option imho, would be a dual or trip rep myrm. The main difference in your fitting though is that you will need to bring neuts along. I expect a pve domi to be running reps and you will want to neut him out to take him down. I would focus all my dps on clearing his drones while I applied my neuts to the domi. Hopefuly by the time you clear the drones, the domi will be capped out and dead in the water.

EDIT: The reason I would use a repping myrm is so that you can easily tank the drone dps until you have cleared them. I would prob use 2 neuts and 1 nos in the highs.

Solo Rifter since 2009
Bibosikus
Air
#5 - 2012-03-06 23:56:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Bibosikus
PvE fitted Domi in Gal space.
OK
He *probably* won't have Warriors, he'll be using Hobgobs which have 75% of the MWD speed of their cousins
He will be fitted for cap stability, so it's unlikely he'll have a cap booster on board
It's already been mentioned he's probably not carrying neuts either

He's most likely fitted for therm/kin armour damage, so you best best is explosive damage. If he has no explosive resists at all, he'll only have about 30k EHP against it



Basically, take a Drake. Tank it for kin/therm, fit a point, and fit heavy assaults with Nova missiles

This might be a tight fit if your fitting skills suck, but, but you can play with it and use implants:

[Drake, Domi missioner killer]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Large Shield Extender II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Warp Disruptor II

'Malkuth' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Assault Missile
'Malkuth' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Assault Missile
'Malkuth' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Assault Missile
'Malkuth' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Assault Missile
'Malkuth' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Assault Missile
'Malkuth' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Assault Missile
'Malkuth' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Nova Assault Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Warrior I x5

It does about 350dps, so it will take down an un-resisted (to explosive) LAR-fitted Domi in about 2.5 minutes. Make that 3.5 minutes if he's dual-repped. You'll have at least 85-90k EHP against his thermal drones, and about 200dps tank to boot.

Your main issue will be getting a decent warp-in on him. Frankly I'd sit on a gate and wait for him to jump back from a mission. You could then point him when he decloaks.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-03-07 07:59:22 UTC
Steam Cat wrote:
High sec

Drone baiting Cool

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Ahrieman
Codex Praedonum
Divine Damnation
#7 - 2012-03-07 09:33:43 UTC
Bibosikus thanks for filling in the holes that I left. Also, good catch on the hobgoblins. I forgot that's what mission runners use. (Even when I run a PLEX, I still use warriors). I still like neuts to mess up his tank. Many mission ships suffer hard under the pressure from a neut or 2.

Solo Rifter since 2009
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#8 - 2012-03-07 13:04:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Wacktopia
Bibo's idea looks good.

If you could persuade one of your corp mates to come in a DPS ship then you could use something like a neut Myrm to shut off his tank in very short time.

Other ship could be anything that can deal DPS at range or even just a second guy in the same fit as below. You will deal around 250 explosive dps (2 beserkers, 2 valk and 1 warrior) with the Myrm too, which should be to their weakest resist.

Edit: Few tips: 1) Make sure you 'cycle' your neuts (so they start at different times), 2) Don't let him kill your drones, 3) Use long point to catch him then web and scram as you get close. 4) dont forget to turn off your mwd and 5) orbit him close if he has any kind of guns fitted.

[Myrmidon, Neuts]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II

Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II
Warp Disruptor II
Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive

Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Small Nosferatu II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Berserker II x2
Valkyrie II x2
Warrior II x1
Vespa EC-600 x5
Warrior II x5

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
welsh wizard
Celestial Fish Inc.
#9 - 2012-03-07 13:14:56 UTC
Bibosikus wrote:
It does about 350dps, so it will take down an un-resisted (to explosive) LAR-fitted Domi in about 2.5 minutes. Make that 3.5 minutes if he's dual-repped. You'll have at least 85-90k EHP against his thermal drones, and about 200dps tank to boot.

Your main issue will be getting a decent warp-in on him. Frankly I'd sit on a gate and wait for him to jump back from a mission. You could then point him when he decloaks.


Um, I could be wrong as I haven't played since 2009 but isn't the Domi just going to waddle back to the gate and jump out, leaving the op with an aggression timer?

You'd need a web or two..
welsh wizard
Celestial Fish Inc.
#10 - 2012-03-07 13:15:24 UTC  |  Edited by: welsh wizard
edit: dble poast
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#11 - 2012-03-07 13:17:42 UTC
welsh wizard wrote:
Bibosikus wrote:
It does about 350dps, so it will take down an un-resisted (to explosive) LAR-fitted Domi in about 2.5 minutes. Make that 3.5 minutes if he's dual-repped. You'll have at least 85-90k EHP against his thermal drones, and about 200dps tank to boot.

Your main issue will be getting a decent warp-in on him. Frankly I'd sit on a gate and wait for him to jump back from a mission. You could then point him when he decloaks.


Um, I could be wrong as I haven't played since 2009 but isn't the Domi just going to waddle back to the gate and jump out, leaving the op with an aggression timer?

You'd need a web or two..


This is true. Catching them in the mission might be a better idea, especially as most Domi pilots probably just sit at the mission entrance.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Bibosikus
Air
#12 - 2012-03-07 13:35:36 UTC
You're absolutely right. A gate camp wouldn't work without a web & prolly a scram too Shocked

To catch him in a mission though, you'll need a buddie to probe him down. Or ask a local ninja - they're always up for a laugh :)

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#13 - 2012-03-07 14:16:23 UTC
If you can fly it a Neuting armour Cane

Something like this

[Hurricane, Cane 1600]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Hail M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Hail M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Hail M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Hail M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Hail M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Hail M
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Hornet EC-300 x6

Between 500 & 600dps depending on ammo, 70k EHP

Neuts will shut down the tank and plenty of EHP and DPS, lucky jams with the drones will allow you to bail if needed.

Kill em all.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#14 - 2012-03-07 18:50:53 UTC
welsh wizard wrote:
Bibosikus wrote:
It does about 350dps, so it will take down an un-resisted (to explosive) LAR-fitted Domi in about 2.5 minutes. Make that 3.5 minutes if he's dual-repped. You'll have at least 85-90k EHP against his thermal drones, and about 200dps tank to boot.

Your main issue will be getting a decent warp-in on him. Frankly I'd sit on a gate and wait for him to jump back from a mission. You could then point him when he decloaks.


Um, I could be wrong as I haven't played since 2009 but isn't the Domi just going to waddle back to the gate and jump out, leaving the op with an aggression timer?

You'd need a web or two..


Holy ****. Welcome back man, it is great to see you. Shoot me an evemail if you need catching up.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#15 - 2012-03-07 19:01:24 UTC
I've occasionally considered trying to solo high sec mission runners with an active tanked close range Manticore. A nano Hound would almost certainly work better in your case, provided you catch him in a non-angel mission and he isn't one of the super lazy omnitankers.

Be careful going with a more traditional role, because he's almost certainly going to be tanked out the wazoo for Kin/Thm... and its not as though Domis are known for having a poor active tank to start with. There's a very real possibility that he will simply be able to tank you if you don't bring some way to force him to cap out (neuts).

Good luck - and post back and let us know what you used and how it turned out!

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#16 - 2012-03-07 19:30:47 UTC
I wouldn't recommend anything without neuts (energy neutralizers) for taking on a PvE-fit ship. Neuts help you break the active tank or turn off the hardeners of any ship.

Gallente/Caldari ships tend to be a bit unfortunate for what you're trying to do, as damage type selection is very important for ganking someone who is specifically fit up to tank one type of damage. If you had access to Minmatar, the classic suggestion is the Hurricane, or the Typhoon. Both do good amounts of damage, and have spare high slots to fit neuts in.

As is, I would probably recommend the Myrmidon with a heavy/med/light drone combination for max DPS, and possibly fit with autocannons to get the damage type selection for your guns too. You can use extraneous mids to completely shut down your enemy, too. Try something like this:

Quote:
[Myrmidon, gankah]

50W Infectious Power System Malfunction
50W Infectious Power System Malfunction
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Damage Control II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Gyrostabilizer II

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Ogre II x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1


Pulse the MWD to get point and close distance, turn it off, and let loose the neuts and damage. Once you see his reps/hardeners have turned off (the visual effect on his ship's hull stopped), turn off the neuts and just pound on him with all the damage you got.

Use the webs to help you kill his drones. You can't active tank the whole damage of a Domi, but if you kill its drones you can. Make sure to orbit him too, as you may break his tracking, further reducing his damage.

Good luck! PvE Domi is hard to gank in a sub-BS hull.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#17 - 2012-03-07 21:10:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tinu Moorhsum
Ahrieman wrote:


EDIT: The reason I would use a repping myrm is so that you can easily tank the drone dps until you have cleared them. I would prob use 2 neuts and 1 nos in the highs.


I've done it with a vagabond before. The trick is to choose your timing well so your ship just puts it over the top on what it can tank. The vaga I was using was also a close-range fit and sig-tanked with both implants and drugs.

I think the myrmidon is a good choice too. In fact, you don't need to actively tank a myrmidon to do this. A blaster fit one with sentry drones and big passive tank is good enough if you choose your timing well. A myrm can be passively fit to tank round about 500dps which is a bit more than what a PVE Domi can dish out with guns, so you want to last long enough to kill his drones and then you have all the time in the world to kill him.

If he has a good active tank, you might want to fit a rack of neuts/nos on the myrm as well and do the damage with drones. Once his cap is empty it will drop like a stone.

Once again the trick is attack him while he's tanking a big spawn so you can get the job done quickly.

T-
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#18 - 2012-03-07 21:28:38 UTC
Ahrieman wrote:
His dps will all come from drones and he is unlikely to be running around with neuts on his pve Domi.



Actually, this isn't necessarily true. I run missions from time to time in a Navy Dominix and it does about 470 dps with guns and another 400 or so with drones.

The difficulty with drones is that they apply consistent dps at any range. If he has sentries out then orbit the sentries at 1k and that will neutralize a lot of their dps. The Domi will *probably* be close to his sentries and if he's stupid he'll leave them out thinking they'll hit the hardest.... but they won't. not at close range.

Even if he moves out to get his guns in range then you'll have lots of time to kill the sentries before he gets maximum dps on you. If he abandons the sentries (or better yet, tries to recall them) then get up and orbit the Dominix at point blank range to neutralize dps from guns. He will undoubtedly be fit with rails, which only get dangerous outside 10k. Put blasters/neuts on him and put your drones on his drones.

T-
Fairhand
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-03-07 22:23:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Fairhand
As a PvE Domi pilot myself, this makes interesting reading...

I agree that most Domis will be rails, active tanked and probably single LAR. You will have to deal with one or two Omnis in his mids and possibly a Mag Stab or two. I tend not to use Neuts myself but I have been playing around with a Target Painter *evil grin*.

These days, the hardest part of engaging one in High Sec is getting him to aggro in the first place!

EDIT : oh, and be prepared for mixed drone types... A Domi carrying 5L, M, H and S has room for a few more Ls of other races.
Steam Cat
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-03-08 04:44:22 UTC
Thx for the help everyone. I'll hopefully have results soon. You are all scholars and gentlemen.
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