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Trading best isk making profession?
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#21 - 2012-03-06 06:41:27 UTC
Ozzie Asrail wrote:
For PvE going from a T2 fit to a faction fit faction BS will be a big improvement. Will going officer/deadspace really make that much more isk in an hour or two of L4's to have good ROI?

I can't really comment with authority on L4 missioning as I have no recent experience, unlike the other alternatives I've discussed in this thread.

When I did do L4 missioning I think I would have to classify my approach as unorthadox anyway, so it would not have matched the experience of the average player. I multiboxed cherry-picked missions using a pair of gank fit Nightmares, I left all loot and salvage to another player who had an arrangement to give me half of his take, my standings gain was shared out via the gang to customers paying for a standings service and my LP was converted to valueable goods which then went into my trading. I guess that my approach was reasonably close to optimal back then, but it wouldn't get close to Wormholes and FW missions now, in fact it would struggle to match Incursions.

Faction prices were high back then, so even faction fitting had questionable merit. Nowdays faction is highly affordable and relatively easy to justify, but I doubt officer/deadspace fits are truely worthwhile for the average player even now.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#22 - 2012-03-06 08:30:29 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
My dear, investing in strangers, requires collateral, or face almost certain losses if you do it more then once, its really that simple.

Maybe if you are bad at it.

I've been investing in MD for what, 6 years, give or take? How many losses have I suffered?

Calgorac: I think it was 500m invested, Calgorac went missing so I lost my investment. Fortunately the total interest payments received over this long running bond means that I still made a profit.

Inigo Firebird: I invested a few billion, he scammed after running the bond for many months. Fortunately he was a member of The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels so I only had to ask him nicely to get my money back.

That's it... Except I think I invested 50m in Rawcola many years ago and I have no idea how that ended... but who can understand Rawcola anyway?

I've seen many other regular MD investors state that they have made a profit overall.

I don't think it's purely down to luck either, MD investment is not just a roll of the dice.
papamike
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-03-06 11:28:41 UTC
You forgot PI Bobby. And Mission Running too.

And mining?
Chevalleis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-03-06 11:36:24 UTC
PI can't really be classified as one of the best isk making professions. Maybe with a horde of alts you could rake in a couple billions a month, but you would use it all to plex your accounts. It's more like a passive sidejob than anythng.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#25 - 2012-03-06 11:57:25 UTC
papamike wrote:
You forgot PI Bobby. And Mission Running too.

And mining?

Yes, that was deliberate.

Mainstream mission running isn't really a viable choice if you are trying to maximise your earnings.

I ignored PI along with all other industrial activities because it's far too complex a subject and ultimately reliant on having lots of accounts for any kind of scale. I didn't think any comparison to the alternatives I did list would be appropriate.

Mining... well, I simply have no experience from which to base any assessment of it.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#26 - 2012-03-06 21:09:34 UTC
papamike wrote:
And mining?


Solo hulk pilot can pull in about 100k m3 of ore per hour (give or take 5%), hook up with an orca and that boosts 40-65% (so 2 hulks + 1 orca makes a lot of sense). Hi-sec ores are mostly in the 120-150 ISK/m3 range right now (so theoretical hulk pilot makes 12-15M per hour solo).

Now, the in past, hi-sec ores have been worth as little as 60-70 ISK/m3. Right now is a bit of a mini-boom for the miners due to the heavy demand for trit/pye/mex.

But then, PI also has ebbs and flows, so does ice mining.
zythyl
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-03-07 13:49:43 UTC
Tidurious wrote:
For the time and effort put into trading, I believe that it is an excellent source of income. It takes limited training, and if you're trading trends and not playing the .01-ISK game, it doesn't take much time (updating once per day is sufficient).

However - for trading to be very profitable, you need to have a significant amount of ISK (say, 1B) to start with. It takes a LONG time to go from, say, 100m to 1B, but after that , it gets much easier.


Could you please elaborate on this as well as how one would go about determining / identifying said trends? Or in particular, whether extra research would be required?
Medai Kesrith
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-03-08 11:57:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Medai Kesrith
About LvL 4 missioning, i'm currently testing how much you can get.

Setup:
1x Gank pimped Machariel with full set damage imps, no booster alt
2x Alts with standing
2x Systems within 1jump
1st one Minmatar L4 Agent with System real sec 0,52
2nd one Amarr L4 Agent with System real sec 0,56

Farming Blockade and Dread Pirate Scarlet
Blockade (vs Angel Cartel only) has 2 different setups, one with 21.4m and one with 17.8m bounty (except the trigger to finish the mission)
Dread Pirate Scarlet differs depending on what faction is spawning but it's around 32m bounty (except the trigger to finish the mission)

ISK/h (pure mission time)
Blockade is ~13mins > 98m/h or 82m/h depending which setup you get
Dread Pirate Scarlet is ~21mins > 91m/h

Problem with Dread Pirate Scarlet are Guristas which costs you about 1-2min per mission depending on how often you get jammed. I can get with 2 agents and 3 chars 6 missions per day and can farm them for 1week, all missions within 1jump or same system.
Calculation per day for 6x Blockade best setup
128m with 78mins pure mission time, add some extra mins for warp and jump. Roughly i need 85mins to make 128m each day that are 90m/h.

You won't get any LP or loot doing this but you are completely independent, stationary and no struggle with mates or logistics etc. You can either decline (make sure you don't kill your faction/corp standing) missions until you get the Blockade/Dread Pirate Scarlet or cherry pick the other semi good ones and farm some LP until you get another Blockade/Dread Pirate Scarlet.


Comparing that with my trading alts:
My alts are doing contract trading with some faction and deadspace mods nothing to expansive. I need about 1h per day to maintain the buy and sell contracts all in all my profit is about 3billion per usual week it can varying +-1billion on a bad or good week and if i invest extra time to update the contracts.
Lets say 3billion with 7h work > 428m/h .... i doubt there is any other profession which makes that ISK/h ratio.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#29 - 2012-03-08 13:31:25 UTC
Medai Kesrith wrote:
428m/h .... i doubt there is any other profession which makes that ISK/h ratio.

It's difficult to effectively compare the isk/hour on different professions like this.

Your trading makes 428m per active hour invested, but a large part of the profession involves waiting for contracts to be accepted. It's a predominantly afk profession.

Various methods of scamming can easily exceed that yield and similarly most scams are a waiting game.

There are plenty of industrial activities that also generate a lot of isk per active hour invested, but they involve massive investment and not inconsiderable risk.

Farming C5/C6 wormhole escalations will generate far more isk worth of loot per hour, but converting that loot into isk requires that you have a route back to normal space. The farming itself involves the use of capitals, which has a fairly large SP requirement, and requires multi-boxing.

Farming 0.0 anoms with a Titan generates huge isk per hour, and it's raw isk delivered directly to your wallet, but obviously the barriers to entry in that profession are considerable.

Farming FW missions is extremely lucrative, if you figure out how to effectively cash in all the rewards, with 1000m/h being entirely possible (speaking from personal experience) but figuring out how to achieve that is not a trivial exercise.
Sven Hammerstorm
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2012-03-09 19:24:03 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
[quote=Medai Kesrith]

Farming FW missions is extremely lucrative, if you figure out how to effectively cash in all the rewards, with 1000m/h being entirely possible (speaking from personal experience) but figuring out how to achieve that is not a trivial exercise.


Just have a few alts and it suddenly isn't very hard. 1b/h might be pushing it though..
Kale deCoste
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-03-11 08:36:55 UTC
Yep, trading is one of the best isk-making professions. The isk you make is more a function of YOU rather than your character's skills. If you're naturally smart, you'll make more isk than most professions. On the otherhand, if you're dumb as a brick, mission running may be more suitable. There are so may styles, setups and philosophies towards trading.
Jan VanRijkdom
House VanRijkdom Trading Conglomerate
#32 - 2012-03-13 06:14:57 UTC
It is hard to beat trading, especially as it's something 'accessible' to almost anyone, there are specialty and high isk investment activities, but with a much higher bar of entry. Trading just takes adding isk to start.

But the trick is knowing what you're doing. Without the knowledge and appropriate tactics trading can be mediocre, but the ceiling is almost non existent, and while you do have to 'wait' for your isk, theres not many other things that can give you as much isk/per active time playing/effort put forth.

WH/Missions etc are active activities. I love being able to make money passively, as I don't have a lot of time ti sink in doing active isk-making activities.

BB laid out most of the more readily accessible activities and there various aspects nicely though.

A lot just depends in your persuasion and tendencies. Not everyone has the desire patience for trading and number crunching. And it can get a bit 'boring' just spinning your

.
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