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Post-balance Blasters in PvE?

Author
Fairhand
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-03-04 10:47:57 UTC
I remember the old generalisation of "Blasters for PvP and Rails for PvE" but I was wondering what is the prevailing opinion on the feasibility of using Blasters in solo PvE missions now they have been rebalanced?

I know that some missions with Stasis Towers will be a pain, as well as those with Web/Scram Frigates as the Triggers for spawns. Are there any other issues I will have to watch out for?

At the moment I am flying T1 Gallente hulls (I have the gun boat skills to level 4). My fitting skills are fair (most to level 4 with the key skills to 5) and my Gunnery skills are *just* under T2 as I have the last few level 5 skills to finish off. I can fit T2 armour tank.

I have been used to flying the drone boats up to Dominix (T2 light/medium drones, T1 heavy or sentry) but wonder if Blasters will be feasible now or are Rails still advised.

Thanks in advance.

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#2 - 2012-03-04 11:04:34 UTC
I'd say it almost certainly still holds true. Though apparently Blaster Vindis work great for Incursions.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Fairhand
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-03-04 11:55:47 UTC
So, despite the rebalance, is it still for the same old reasons?

Having to tank the entire group while you burn to closing distance, ships *still* getting under the tracking and wrecks all over the place because of attempting to herd cats who are only slightly slower than you and who insist on orbiting at range while you chase your selected victim?

Just to clarify, I am speaking about PvE Missions here, not Incursions or Ratting.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#4 - 2012-03-04 11:58:40 UTC
It still holds, but less rigidly. Large neutrons already worked under the right circumstances (Mega on Damsel and things like that). Large neutrons are now easier to fit, so your fitting options for those situations have increased. I've been running a very niche injected Astarte on specific missions and it works as well. Blaster fits still absolutely require a MWD.

The flip side of this is that rails are actually quite a bit better now as well. 425s are considerably easier to fit and Javelin (which, yes, is a bit pricey) is downright good -- especially on tracking-bonused hulls.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#5 - 2012-03-04 12:37:14 UTC
Fairhand wrote:
I remember the old generalisation of "Blasters for PvP and Rails for PvE" but I was wondering what is the prevailing opinion on the feasibility of using Blasters in solo PvE missions now they have been rebalanced?


Their range is still abysmal, which means that while they might be fun for some missions (Damsel?), they're still no good for the vast majority.

1000 dps may sound nice, but if you spend 50% of your time not shooting (since your target is out of range), you're only doing 500 dps.
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-03-04 12:53:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Darthewok
Anyone tried new Null on Rokh (ship range bonus) or on Domi/Mega with Tracking Enhancer, Tracking Computer, Hybrid Ambit Extension? Might be able to get 40+km effective range.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-03-04 13:51:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzzmong
Oi, Fairhand!

The advice given on corp chat last night not good enough for you eh? P
Fairhand
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-03-04 14:53:25 UTC
Oops Busted!

The problem was that with time to think, I kept coming up with horrible scenarios as to why a Blaster boat would not work in a mission and I had a crisis of confidence I suppose.
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#9 - 2012-03-04 15:39:44 UTC
Problem with large blasters in PvE was and still is that beyond +30km you might as well use rails as far as damage projection is concerned even if you could hit further with lead which of c. makes blasters useless when you hit the same with rails and antimatter.
Only thing where blasters work is angels but that's because angels obviously have red army field manual from WW2 as tactical reading.
YuuKnow
The Scope
#10 - 2012-03-04 15:56:26 UTC
Baneken wrote:
Problem with large blasters in PvE was and still is that beyond +30km you might as well use rails as far as damage projection is concerned even if you could hit further with lead which of c. makes blasters useless when you hit the same with rails and antimatter.


I agree. The problem with travel time still exist. Once you close on one target, the others will fan to the 4 winds and you'll waste time chasing. Faster to just have longer range guns.
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-03-04 18:09:33 UTC
Blasters really suck cap too. Short range, high fitting requirements, cap hungry, so many drawbacks.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

Liam Mirren
#12 - 2012-03-04 18:13:11 UTC
Other than specific missions you're simply better off with rails.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.

OfBalance
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-03-04 18:15:05 UTC
Darthewok wrote:
Blasters really suck cap too. Short range, high fitting requirements, cap hungry, so many drawbacks.


They suck less cap than equivalent railguns and are easier to fit than said railguns. :themoreyouknow:
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#14 - 2012-03-04 18:38:22 UTC
Fairhand wrote:
So, despite the rebalance, is it still for the same old reasons?


Its a bit odd to say "despite the rebalance" when the rebalance was geared towards PVP (and was successful). At any rate, I'm not sure how they could change blasters to be viable in general PVE without destroying the flavor or making them OP as hell in PVP.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-03-04 19:46:43 UTC
OfBalance wrote:
Darthewok wrote:
Blasters really suck cap too. Short range, high fitting requirements, cap hungry, so many drawbacks.


They suck less cap than equivalent railguns and are easier to fit than said railguns. :themoreyouknow:


Correct.

Amend to:
The short range of blasters requires high usage of MWD/AB to power into range.
The combined usage of MWD and blasters (which are still quite cap intensive) really nukes that capacitor far more than rails, where only occasional pulsing of the prop mod (or no prop mod) is required.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

OfBalance
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-03-04 20:12:55 UTC
Darthewok wrote:
OfBalance wrote:
Darthewok wrote:
Blasters really suck cap too. Short range, high fitting requirements, cap hungry, so many drawbacks.


They suck less cap than equivalent railguns and are easier to fit than said railguns. :themoreyouknow:


Correct.

Amend to:
The short range of blasters requires high usage of MWD/AB to power into range.
The combined usage of MWD and blasters (which are still quite cap intensive) really nukes that capacitor far more than rails, where only occasional pulsing of the prop mod (or no prop mod) is required.


Oh of course, that doesn't make them any more practical outside some niche situations, but I just wanted to note they are not terrible cap heavy or hard to fit unless you're comparing them to autocannons. Blink
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-03-04 20:23:12 UTC
OfBalance wrote:
Oh of course, that doesn't make them any more practical outside some niche situations, but I just wanted to note they are not terrible cap heavy or hard to fit unless you're comparing them to autocannons. Blink


No argument whatsoever and that was a good clarification.
I like rails quite a bit now actually.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-03-04 21:03:48 UTC
Blaster proteus isn't terribly efficient but it can be lots of fun.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-03-04 22:13:40 UTC
This really has a lot of factors.

There are missions where spawn ranges mean that large blasters can be more effective in regards to battleships but for most missions rails would still be preferred
.
Things change a little with medium guns, medium rails can still be lacking in range and blasters can be used effectively on a Proteus against Kin/Therm Enemies. In these missions not only is the enemy weak to the damage type but the natural resists of the proteus mean that the ship can be max gank min tank, plus it can travel at 1600m/s.

When I mission I normally have a few ships on standby a Sleip for angels (only trained T2 guns up to medium in minmatar), a Rail Hype for missions with stasis towers like Surprise Surprise and the Blaster Proteus for all Serpentis missions.

My Proteus is a cap boosting (Rarely needed), microwarpdrive fit with two tracking enhancers and a two slot tank, the rest is pretty standard.

If you want heavily tanked cap stable ships with as little change to fits between misisons as possible, then I would not advise using Blasters.
Dyniss
KarmaFleet University
#20 - 2012-03-05 09:45:27 UTC
I use blasters in missions no problem. My navy domi can easily hit out to 55km with null and null is better then javelin for dmg. Also I keep my alt in missions with me in a noctis with 2 tracking links with this I have about 60km range with blasters or 0.1 tracking which is amazing for a bs and if I loaded up void I can shoot out to almost 30km or have that sweet tracking bonus
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