Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So dense again it is painfull.


It has everything to do with. Unlimited cloak time allows to generate false intel with 100% safety .



Rat , pvp , spin in station, scam in jita , possibilities are endless.

Well, if you stopped being dense, maybe you could answer the question: what's the problem? How is any of this in any way an issue with the cloaker?

No. He is not generating any intel, and the data he creates is not false. Intel is what the guy at the other end creates from the data available to him — the problem is with him, not with the cloaker. The cloaker has zero control over the situation; it's all in the hands of the “victim”.

…so you're sacrificing the exact same thing he is. So what's the problem? How is it broken?

No, that's actually the entire point: you don't want to deal with cloakers and want the game to do it for you for no adequately explained reason. It's also the point because the vast majority of AFK cloak whines is about how people ignorantly claim that there is nothing they can do — that they are helpless and that it's all horribly unfair… when in fact, they choose to be helpless because they choose not to make use of the myriad of counters, and because they choose to create a problem for themselves.

No. That is not a problem. It's engrained the game, and it's simply something you have to plan for and adjust to. It's also something you are doing… we all are. Because that's how the game works.

Then quit. Your job is to figure out which are the ghosts and which are not — that's how you generate intel rather than just reflexively react to coloured boxes showing up in local. Moreover, the best way to combat the AFK cloaker is to make it have no effect. This can be done in many ways.

No. The only thing that is “false” is the interpretation of the data and the reaction to that interpretation. More specifically, the “false” part is the overinterpretation of lacklustre data and the second-guessing that ensues from this false move. That's why you learn to deal with it and learn to do better interpretations. It has nothing to do with the cloaker and everything to do with the self-proclaimed victim. Oh, and no, a more fragile ship is not particularly more threatened than anything else if you fly it properly.

But here's the thing, and why I keep asking what the problem is: so what? What difference does it make? What is the harm if he's not AFK? What would you do differently if you knew for certain? Just because you're having problems with these issues does not mean the data is false (if it were, we'd be dealing with an exploit, and that's a whole different kettle of fish). Also, you do understand that you just explained why the counter-example sitting in a station is relevant, right?

He's sacrificing something because he could place that character somewhere else or use the computer for folding@home or ship spin while he eats his pizza. His sacrifice of a logged-in character is the same as yours. Period. If you want to claim “no sacrifice” for having an cloaker logged in, you do it equally and stop using it as a fucktarded argument why things are so horribly unfair. So make up your mind: is it a sacrifice or not? You have to repeat the claim until you stop being a ******* hypocrite and start accepting that you are the problem — not the guy being AFK with a cloak activated.

…well, you and a different thing that we'll get to once you're ready and start to actually answer the questions. We'll get there eventually. So, I'll ask you again, and this time, try to think about what it is I'm asking rather than reflexively spit out the same tired and laughable sound-bite:

What is the actual problem you're having — more specifically, why is it a problem? How is any of this in any way an issue with the cloaker? Why are you trying to “fix” an activity and a module that is completely irrelevant to what's actually going on?

you can go back to high sec or a different system where no cloakers are, noone forces you to be where you are.
If you decide to live in 0.0, accept the risk of people hanging around in the systems you live in.
Everyone should be able to hang around whereever he wants if prepared for this (cloak), nothing wrong with that, space is free for all to move/hang around.

Hanging around in a system with a cyno is a fully legal and good tactic to get kills, nothing wrong with this too.
Ratters hide in POS/Station as soon as you enter local without no slightest chance of catching one because of instant local intel? No problem, just park a cyno alt in that system 23/7, let the local work for you and force them to hide forever in their f*ck POS, or come out for ratting and get ambushed via cyno. This is fine and should work. Why should the local work onesided for you? You better GTFO or STFU.

First there is no need to resort to personal attacks, just because someone doesn't agree with your point of view doesn't mean you need to call them stupid.

Now for my counter argument. I'll make this simple.

Currently there are several steps that the Cloaker takes to lock down a system.

-Step 1: AFK Cloaking puts the local residents on alert: the reason that this happens is because there is a flawless, instant, and easily referenced source of intel. This is step one, and is part of the goals of the cloaker.

-Step 2: Local residents become used to the extra person in local: People get tired, and they tend to forget something is there when they see it all the time. The cloaker needs this desensitizing to happen before anything can be done without springing a trap. There are obvious clues indicating whether the locals are ready for an attack or not, so you watch and wait. Again this happens because they are always able to see you in local chat

-Step 3: Cloaker attacks a weak opponent: Just like an ambusher they get to chose when and what they engage, this is the advantage of cloaking. The ironic thing is that the cloaker doesn't need to actually kill anyone in an attack, just showing activity is enough to send the whole system back to step one. The end result is to lower moral and soften a target for raids and conventional attacks.

If local was put on delayed mode like wormholes(or even modified otherwise), the whole process of inhibiting activity changes:

-Step 1: Cloaking Raids: The cloaker moves to target system and must attack something to make his presence known. This can become difficult as he would have to check every system for ratters, he does not have the luxury of the local chat to see who is where. There is also a lot more danger as it becomes massively more difficult to spot traps.

Step 2: Repeat step 1: This may be more difficult because many 0.0 systems are unoccupied and they will waste time searching for ratters and miners all the while risking more because of the risk of being spotted and trapped in. When they are finished they will logoff. They will not stay on for hours on end because there is no point.

My point is that intel should be actively attained, on both sides, the solo cloaker will waste hours looking for a good kill, while the people who live there just need to spot him once to be put on guard and the cloaker won't even realize it. Defence without local will become much easier because of skirmish tactics, strategically placed scouts, and ambushes. Right now local gives to much information to the attacker and defender, this needs to change.

This. Nicely worded and to the point.

You cant read



Where is risk for afk cloaker where in reward he generate blurred intel ??

I am not disagreeing with you in here in general.

I dont mind active cloakers, if someone plays 16 hours a day and wanna sit cloak in a system great. That can actually bring pvp opportunities for me and him.

What i dont like is for example trying to bate someonewho is out getting drunk in a bar.
It is waste time for me and reward for him ( i waste resources ) with 0% risk on cloaker side.

And this is why you won't get any support outside your own little group.

You don't mind people hot dropping you mind people hot dropping you and your friends.

I'll tell you why this is a relevant question. aside from alliance held 0.0 sec your cloaking nerf does apsolutly nothing.

in low sec you could dock in to a station be just as AFK as with a clock wait untill you know everybody is lulled to sleep undock and make the same hotdrop.

you can't see who is bad and who is not that is already advantage you have in 0.0 sec.

Now if you would come with something that would protect people and not just you and your buddies you might get some bigger support, but now you sound exactly the same as the ganked miner.

You generate the blurred intel because you don't know how to properly evaluate what you read in local.