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What webbing BOAT is good for C5 capital escalations?
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UAB
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-03-04 09:09:37 UTC  |  Edited by: UAB
Hello dear forum readers and posters!

Long story short. I want to try run c5 capiral escalations wirth my 4 toons.

Here is how I imagine this. First command ship warps in and starts do its thing. Seconds later Chimera goes in and goes triage.

Now the tricky part. I have dread Revelation and need dedicated webber I think. What should it be (Mach??) with big enough buffer to hold 2 spawns? Or I should swich webber and dread to no capital DPS ships to clean up litle bit?

Any advices are accetable :)) with fittings especially.

P.S. I think one of ships should sensor boost dread or what?
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-03-04 13:02:17 UTC
How about a webbing loki? Great web range =)
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
#3 - 2012-03-04 15:17:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Daneel Trevize
UAB wrote:
Long story short. I want to try run c5 capiral escalations wirth my 4 toons.

Here is how I imagine this. First command ship warps in and starts do its thing. Seconds later Chimera goes in and goes triage.
You imagine wrong. The fat shield-tanked command ship would be neuted & volleyed by the spawn, especially by the 6 BSs your warping carrier triggers.
Send the logi ship(s) in first, with only it(them) on the field, you at least have them loaded grid (& sort any cap chain if traditional logis) before you send in another ship that could want locking & repping asap if aggro switches.

IIRC the spawns will want to be at 60-80km. A mach would be a terrible ship to fly towards them and try web them with. You need something that can web while being webbed 6x over from 60+km. A pimped recon/loki works, or in the right system and with many staggered bonused large (not capital) reps, a frigate such as a daredevil.

1 mach and 1 dread for dps is going to take ages to chew through the 14 BS you've spawned. The Triaged carrier can't use fighters, a Sieged dread can't be RRed. Without the right fits & system bonuses you might find you get neuted/can't tank.

I'd try test this on Sisi. If last week you were in your wormhole, you'll have your characters mirrored in it. You won't have your pos but if you scan your way out you can get to the 100isk markets and bring cap ships in. But if you don't start in a ship with a probe launcher, or use the moveme channel to be teleported to nullsec, you'll have a v hard time finding a c5 wormhole especially if you live in one with a bonus.
Alec Freeman
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-03-04 15:35:35 UTC
You need more than one webbed too make full use of the dread (atleast 4-6 60% webs on the field swell as target painters)
UAB
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-03-04 16:00:45 UTC
Daneel Trevize wrote:
UAB wrote:
Long story short. I want to try run c5 capiral escalations wirth my 4 toons.

Here is how I imagine this. First command ship warps in and starts do its thing. Seconds later Chimera goes in and goes triage.
You imagine wrong. The fat shield-tanked command ship would be neuted & volleyed by the spawn, especially by the 6 BSs your warping carrier triggers.
Send the logi ship(s) in first, with only it(them) on the field, you at least have them loaded grid (& sort any cap chain if traditional logis) before you send in another ship that could want locking & repping asap if aggro switches.

IIRC the spawns will want to be at 60-80km. A mach would be a terrible ship to fly towards them and try web them with. You need something that can web while being webbed 6x over from 60+km. A pimped recon/loki works, or in the right system and with many staggered bonused large (not capital) reps, a frigate such as a daredevil.

1 mach and 1 dread for dps is going to take ages to chew through the 14 BS you've spawned. The Triaged carrier can't use fighters, a Sieged dread can't be RRed. Without the right fits & system bonuses you might find you get neuted/can't tank.

I'd try test this on Sisi. If last week you were in your wormhole, you'll have your characters mirrored in it. You won't have your pos but if you scan your way out you can get to the 100isk markets and bring cap ships in. But if you don't start in a ship with a probe launcher, or use the moveme channel to be teleported to nullsec, you'll have a v hard time finding a c5 wormhole especially if you live in one with a bonus.


The system I am aiming is Calalyst, so boost for armor RR. Forgot to mention that command ship ir amarr.

Ofc I will try on SiSi first, but I cant play eve on this stupid laptop and will be home just after 2 weeks. So just thinkin about strategys to do capital escalation with 4 alts.

Well Mach was just stupid exaple :) **** I realized just now that chimera will not do the job, will have to swich for Archon and that means dread will have to be Phoenix, or I will need do some training for Moros or Revelation on other char.

So, now when we swiched for remote repping gang, maybe for FIRST wave I could use lets say RR domis with sentry, wich we use for corp ops, or tengus. And then swich for dread and something what webs?
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
#6 - 2012-03-04 17:24:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Daneel Trevize
What is this switch you speak of? Sleepers point... You either wait for them to randomly all let your dread pilot go, or bring ECM but that's still a random factor.

You are talking about RR tengus, right?

Cataclysmic Variable? IIRC you'll need to swap out a 'standard' C5 sleeper capital ship fit's capacitor module for another local repper, being as local tank's nerfed and capacitor's also bonused. Actually is it more nuanced, that capacity's bonused but recharge is nerfed? Either way, C5 bonuses must be taken into account. EFT/PyFA can simulate this.

Phoenix damage will be terrible iirc. The Cat Var bonus seems to be to both kinds of RR, so you can go shield or armour.
UAB
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-03-04 18:07:33 UTC
Yeah went to offtopic lil bit.

Anyways main question is how to make Revelation most efficient fot capiral spawns having trige chirema, command ship and unnamed webber ship. And we are looking for good webber (4+) webs and armor tank
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
#8 - 2012-03-04 18:49:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Daneel Trevize
UAB wrote:
trige chirema

we are looking for good webber (4+) webs and armor tank
I think you want a Thanatos or a shield-tanked webbed.

My main experience for C5s using sieged dreads was with a wolf-rayet effect using daredevils as tacklers & decent dps vs sub-BS ships. But they're quite vulnerable to piloting error even with guardians giving RR and cap.
Farang Lo
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-03-04 19:59:09 UTC
do a little research????
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-03-04 22:13:19 UTC
why on earth are you warping a command ship in first?
hell, why you warping it in at all?
your boosting ship should sit and stay at a pos where it belongs.

i would HIGHLY recommend joining a corp who knows how to do these before doing them on your own.
or at the very least having a decenly long convo with someone who does them regularly.
(this may not be as easy since most people won't tell you how to do it.)

im not going to give you specifics but here are a few tips to get you started.
start training that chimera toon for an archon right now.
you need a loki pilot.
you need a booster able to run armour and skirmish links, preferably skirmish mind linked.

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Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-03-05 03:12:39 UTC
loki

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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#12 - 2012-03-05 09:57:06 UTC
IBD - In Before Disaster...

I would go Loki or Huginn for webs/painters
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
#13 - 2012-03-06 11:38:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Gibbo3771
Huggin, 3 webs, 3 painters

Armor spank it, full rack of nos in high.

if you are doing cap escalations right it will never die, however do them wrong or different from what we do and you will most likely die due to very little target choice for sleepers.

Although, from what you described in op...you have no clue wtf you are doing and sounds like you are extremely ineffiecient.

it takes us 7minutes to clear a max cap escalated site.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-03-07 01:53:17 UTC
If you have a triaged carrier in first, you can keep most subcaps alive with it (provided that it has LOTS of extra capacitor to survive the neuts). Don't EVER EVER EVER use a pheonix in a WH, unless you are just warping it in for a spawn and getting it the hell out asap. They are utterly useless.

As for webbing, you need to have a rapier, huggin, loki, or bhaalghorn, depending upon how you want to roll with it, and that ship will need remote cap transfer. The battleships settle into their orbit at 37km, so you need to be able to web at that range. This can be done with a loki that has fed navy webs and a booster with a t2 skirmish link, a rapier/huggin with standard webs and no links, or a bhaalghorn with fed navy webs and a t2 link (barely... if the booster is in a loki - you are going to need the mindlink or officer webs to be able to web while they are still approaching though). Technically you could use a ship that has the web strength bonus, and with fed navy webs and a mindlinked loki booster to get the web range out to 20.9km, but I wouldn't want to try depending upon getting that into webrange routinely and effectively - sleepers really like to primary webbers.

Using any of these ships you need to get at least 3 webs on target and wait for the battleships to slow down before the dreadnought is effective. Additional webs allow you to start slowing down the next target, while painters would allow you to hit the target harder.

All this being said... from what you have been saying, I would recommend doing this in stages - start with finishing sites with just your subcaps, then try bringing in a triage carrier and running sites with that and no other capships, and then once you're comfortable go ahead and start bringing in dreads.

-Arazel
UAB
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-03-07 03:41:02 UTC
Hello again. I really really thankfull for all your answers. It was wery usefull reading. Now I have much better picture in my mind how this should be done. Thanks gain, will try those suggestions when I'll be home.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#16 - 2012-03-07 03:46:05 UTC
Gibbo3771 wrote:
Huggin, 3 webs, 3 painters

Armor spank it, full rack of nos in high.

You'd want a rapier for that, no? It has a 4th low slot and the same amount of mids.

thhief ghabmoef
Adacia Calla
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-03-07 09:12:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Adacia Calla
This is what I've personally used in C5 escalations, you'll thank me when you're neuted dry and your hardeners turn off. You can put in a 3rd web in place of the scrambler, but you never know when you need to lock down a pvp target in the middle of a Sleeper Op

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Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
#18 - 2012-03-07 11:26:38 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Gibbo3771 wrote:
Huggin, 3 webs, 3 painters

Armor spank it, full rack of nos in high.

You'd want a rapier for that, no? It has a 4th low slot and the same amount of mids.


It probably is a rapier, i dont do the site with the corp personally but I know they warp in 2 of these and the revs can basically alpha everything.
Farang Lo
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-03-07 17:22:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Farang Lo
that loki fit doesnt look "pve" at all.

and if you're not careful enough to let people drop on you, that loki wouldnt make any difference.

and why MWD, won't it make your ship bigger >>> taking more damage??
Vile Coyote
Deep Space Legacy
#20 - 2012-03-07 17:35:31 UTC
Daneel Trevize wrote:

Cataclysmic Variable? IIRC you'll need to swap out a 'standard' C5 sleeper capital ship fit's capacitor module for another local repper, being as local tank's nerfed and capacitor's also bonused. Actually is it more nuanced, that capacity's bonused but recharge is nerfed? Either way, C5 bonuses must be taken into account. EFT/PyFA can simulate this.

Phoenix damage will be terrible iirc. The Cat Var bonus seems to be to both kinds of RR, so you can go shield or armour.



Yes, the cap amount is bonused and the recharge is nerfed to compensate. You'll have the same recharge time as outside the WH, just a larger pool to begin with (still nice against neuting).

And +1 for the phoenix being terrible at shooting things that are not are not a massive unmovable structure. You can use all the webs and TP you want, you'll struggle to outdamage a cruise raven.
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