Intergalactic Summit

Really? Orbital bombardment does not constitute "abuse"? That is an interesting moral stance you have chosen there, captain Erena. Would you say the same should the Leviathan currently stationed above Caldari Prime turn its weapons on Luminaire?

I am slow to respond, and find myself chastised even before I finished doing so. My apologies Eywa-haani, captain Starfire, and of course Ademinan-haan.

Captain Maris, I would encourage you to ignore any further comments made by Ms. Erena. She comes off with the attitude of an uneducated child filled with the propoganda that the Gallente Federation manufactures daily about it's enemies. The truth is known, and will always be known. The Caldari State's corporations take good care of all their employees and, as you stated, rarely ever turn one out lest it be for criminal actions. Even then, they find employ in the prison system, where they can be more closely monitored as they stamp Identification tags for starships. Either way, all of this talk has nothing to do with the statement that was originally made: helping the Matari escape slavery, and return to their homeworlds of the Pator system.

Also, I too have witnessed the differences of the Gallente Federation and Caldari State first hand, and have to stand by my Caldari allies on this one.

I'll quote my original post here: "...and he did indeed cause merit to become a focal point in lower level appointments", I absolutely do not doubt that Heth's regime caused many changes to the lives of average citizen. But under Heth's dictatorship the State is not let by merit.

You speak of the rebirth of the Caldari State, it's values and the 'Caldari way', but the past is not always better. While there are many things that are worth keeping, and while Heth's revolt may prove to have been the catalyst for a better social fabric within the State; I do not believe that the Caldari people will ever truly prosper until the fascists have been removed from power entirely.

As a side note was the 'State Independent Audit Bureau' conducting the research formed by Heth's Provists? Certainly I cannot recall ever hearing about such an organization being a part of any of the regulatory bodies of the State.

I might argue that Heth-haan is an example of merit rising. He was not born into his position, nor coddled on his way through the ranks by well-connected relatives and superiors. He was chosen by the people as an exemplar for his bravery and selflessness, and a wealthy patriot respected that choice and gave Heth-haan the backing needed for him to take charge of Caldari Constructions - not even one of the Big Eight. He then found the leverage to take control of Kaalakiota and from there took the leading role in the State. His rise was unusually precipitous, but not an example of the nepotism that has held us back in recent decades.

I would also debate your statement that the State is a dictatorship. Was Ishukone ordered to develop assets around Intaki? My impression is that that it was a choice your parent company made. Nor did Heth-haan's anger stop Ishukone from conducting independent negotiations with the Federation. I can understand the arguments that Heth-haan may have more power than a single person should in the State, but his word is not absolute.

As for the audit's authenticity, at the time I was not a capsuleer so my resources were limited and I judged the reforms by the positive effects I saw in my community. The "State Independent Audit Authority" sounds like a CBT arm to me, but I do note that Saari-haani's press conferences were attended by high-ranking CPD members, who also spoke on the issue. However from what I am able to dig up after the fact, the audit appears to have been reasonably independent. If nothing else apparently at the time the CPD was thought not have the resources to conduct complex audits on its own, so if they had attempted to skew the numbers I would expect that our detractors would have skewered the report more effectively than they did.

As it is, while the reactions across the cluster were largely in line with what you would expect, I will note that even the Gallentean reaction at the time admitted that the data appeared to be accurate while questioning the likely long-term benefits, and The Scope stated that most detractors were focused on claiming that the Caldari elite remained corrupt rather than attacking the reforms directly. The Scope had some positive "human interest" stories about the reforms, including some anecdotal evidence that Heth-haan's reforms are also allowing workers to move into management - make of that what you will.

It would be nice to see solid information on the effects some 3 years later, but at the moment I do not have access to that level of economic data. From old contacts and the efforts of the researchers I employ, I know that the New Meritocracy is still well-regarded and anecdotally has opened opportunities across all strata of our society, but as to the real numbers... I will hazard no guess.

Not quite. What Heth did was take advantage of the Caldari frame of mind directly following the Malkalen Disaster and use the anti-Gallente and anti-Federation sentiments popular at the time to sway political power. You and I both clearly agree that such political maneuvering is not true to the spirit of a meritocracy. That does not, however, negate that he has made changes in the infrastructure that have overall restored the meritocracy of the State in spite of himself.



Your first statement is fundamentally flawed. A dictator has totalitarian authority by definition. Your reference to the Empress is a monarchical establishment, not a dictatorial one. Heth declared war when he knew that the Caldari people would willingly go along with it, again taking political advantage of the timing and situation to do so, that doesn't make him a dictator, it makes him a politician.

I have difficulty believing he possesses the ability and authority to dictate the industrial output of the eight megacorporations, at all. Of course, it may be my own ignorance. I would prefer that you submit solid proof of such a claim.

He is the acknowledged leader of the State because the Caldari have let him be so for now, if the Caldari wished him deposed, there are more than enough independent forces in the State that could accomplish that task.

As for your last statement? It sounds to me like Heth can't overcome the deep seated culture and wishes of the Caldari people in order to become the dictator you claim he is. His rise to power may not have been through merit, but I will not discount the positive changes to the State and the restoration of the meritocracy that has resulted from it. Nor do I think it is prudent to continue blasting the State's current situation all over public forums.



Attempting to discredit the facts because you are skeptical of their source is a terrible way to try and make your point and serves to discredit your own line of thinking.

Orkot-haan,

You take my words out of context and I cannot help but feel that you are under the impression I am attempting to personally attack you, that is not at all the case.

Allow me to clarify some misunderstandings between us.

Firstly, I care very little for what your definition of a "dictator" is, a dictator by definition dictates. If there is any level of checks against their authority, they are not dictators - at best, they are political figureheads with more power than they should have but less than they believe they have.

I appreciate you connecting me with the information regarding the CPD. However, there are a couple points I will make regarding it, based strictly on the news article you provided, of course. First, Ishukone did not join the partnership, so that is only seven of eight, not all eight. Secondly, the executives of those corporations signed onto a partnership willingly granting access to the industrial base. A partnership, in terms of business, is a mutual agreement that can be evaluated, changed and even negated if one or both sides choose to do so at a later time, this was not a "surrendering of control" to CPD, it was a temporary "we need to focus" partnership that will only remain in place for as long as those corporations involved allow it to continue.

Which leads me to your next point, Heth doesn't have absolute control over the Megas, so that cannot contribute to his status as a dictator. His "decrees" went through the same procedure that any corporate decree would have had to go through in order to be made "law of the land" in the area they govern, the only difference is that his decrees have passed through the jurisdiction of seven of eight of the corporations because of the above mentioned partnership. (Which further requires cooperation, not dictatorship). Every megacorporation in the State has a private paramilitary force, Heth's is no exception. I agree that the "blueshirts" are additional forces but they are still nothing entirely out of the ordinary in the State.

My comments regarding why Heth remains in power have been largely taken out of context and misinterpreted. My point was that despite the above mentioned paramilitary forces, the partnership that grants Heth direct access to the industrial base and allows him to coordinate the efforts of the majority of the State can be dismissed and broken at the whim of any of the involved corporations at any time, each with their own paramilitary forces, partners, affiliates and access to other forces. Should even a few of these dissenting corporations turn their ire toward Heth, his "absolute control" would crumble systematically and there would be enough paramilitary force to stand against any attempted forceful coup. So, by extension, he only remains in power because there hasn't been any concentrated effort to remove him from it. Period.

It is not that I thought the state was poisoned by underhanded compromise, it is that historical facts indicated such compromise was occurring. The difference is that I spoke of openly accessible factual information that could be viewed by anybody researching the history of the State. What you constantly speak of is a viewpoint striking against the current governing and focus of the State simply because you personally view Tibus Heth as a dictator and all who support him as fascists. My dialogue was based on fact, yours is an opinionated theory that currently strikes at the very core of our people.

I have absolutely no fear of "blueshirts," "wealth distribution" or any such rot. Further, your attempts to implicate my statements and flavor them to feed your own conceptions of the current government through blatant passive aggression is not only obvious, it's pathetic. I do not consider you a traitor to the State, nor will I attempt to claim that I am somehow more loyal to the State than you are, as that is fallacy. You clearly are loyal to the Caldari people and your stalwart defense of your ideals, viewpoints and convictions speaks plainly to not only your loyalty but to your heritage as a Caldari. That our viewpoints differ is only human.

To your statement at the end, disregarding your attempt at a jab with the "rosy glasses" remark, what is considered "tolerable" now by the greater mass may or may not change. As indicated above, should Heth try to push his position beyond acceptability, or should what is tolerable now be no longer considered tolerable, then the CPD partnership dissolves, competition continues, the Chief Executive Panel will once again consist of executives governing over their own territories in pursuit of their own interests and the temporary "unity" provided through the CPD partnership becomes one chapter in our history. Give your fellow kin enough credit to consider that we are not blindly ignorant.

I should perhaps take lessons in being concise.

With absolute respect, the crux of my argument is that his power can be wrestled from easily by the very system I explained to you above.

The crux of your argument seems to be that he has more control than he should. Which we agree on. So rather than continually argue in circles, why do we not simply focus on being kindred spirits working for the good of our brothers and sisters in the spirit of Heiian instead of arguing here about petty disagreements?

Despite how long Heth has been in power, his power is not absolute and it can be ended if there is the will to do so. For now, I will stand beside my fellow Caldarians and continue to pursue our independence, honor and future.



Exactly, glad we finally agree. Get over it.



In your opinion.

I'll quote you here: "...dictator by definition dictates...", some examples of this are:

• His ability to control industrial output of the Megas.
• His deceleration of conscription for the CPD.
• His programs of wealth distribution.

So how would say he is not 'dictating' the policies of the Caldari State?



I would say that Heth does at the very least directly control the industrial might of the Megacorps. I would also say that Heth does go over the heads of the CEP to decree his polices, using them as rubber stamps to enact his will within their respective corporations. It's a an illusion the the CEP has any real power over Heth.

But of course we're both convinced of our positions, so I guess we just have to wait and see if power dynamic between the CEP and Heth ever changes.