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[Legacy Repost] A New Caldari Cause
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Ilsenae Alexandros
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-09-08 18:53:25 UTC
Corlus Ademinan wrote:
Long has our State held the values of freedom of the people and the right to a life without oppression. We ourselves as Caldari have rid ourselves of the slavery that persists so widely across our reality yet as our State shows its progression and lives in a free world there are many that do not.

Most notably the Minmatar still held in chains and those who are free but are still pursued by thier enslavers. This is an opportunity for Caldari who hold freedom and a hate of oppression to help these Minmatar and show them that the there are Caldari who disagree with thier Amarrian alliance members and join thier true brothers in arms. We have the might and we have the cunning to do real good here.

This will not be for all Caldari and will not be agreed upon by most but those of us who find this worthy of our efforts there will be soon an outlet for your passion.

Myself have been in Gulf for these many months working with the Minmatar. Working in thier fleets and in thier culture. Ive seen first had the slaver ships and the condition of these slaves. This sight is sick and sad. These Minmatar are a proud people and a people worthy of our shield.

Purpose: Garner the support of the Minmatar people to our group of Caldari pilots and give our State the vision in which we share

Anti slavery ops as well as supplying support and resources to lead Minmatar groups in the area

Plan: To recruit like minded Caldari as well as Minmatar who welcome our group into thier culture

Garner good relations with well known Minmatar corps similiar to our interests in the fight against oppression

All goals will be geared toward supporting the Minmatar people and thier war effort against slavers and pirates



As of now I am searching for founding members both Caldari and Minmatar. It is the utmost importance that we have a good base of Caldari members to show our commitment and will require a move to Minmatar space. You may contact me on private comms or message. I will respond to any and all comms

Corlus Ademinan

Fly Free Fly Proud

To know the face of God is to know madness.
Ilsenae Alexandros
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-09-08 19:30:11 UTC
Quote:
Long has our State held the values of freedom of the people and the right to a life without oppression. We ourselves as Caldari have rid ourselves of the slavery that persists so widely across our reality yet as our State shows its progression and lives in a free world there are many that do not.


That the words "State" and "Caldari" can easily be replaced by "Federation" and "Gallente" respectively reveals that you know little to nothing of Caldari culture.

"Freedom" is a culturally significant word in Gallente culture, but not in Caldari culture. In fact, in the modern language Napanii used by many Caldari (though by no means all) the word "freedom" is synonymous in translation to the word for "chaos," vaajpa. The closest translation to most culture's definition of "freedom" is doseijaa, which means "unlimited."

That is not to say necessarily that the cultural ideal of "freedom" as it is generally understood is not a worthwhile ideal, properly tempered with wisdom and moderation. My contention instead is with this ideal being characterized as inherently "Caldari" or a State-held ideal. This is emphatically not the case.

To know the face of God is to know madness.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#3 - 2011-09-08 19:46:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Khross
To expound upon what was started by my kirjuun,

The Caldari State was founded as, and has recently been restored to, a meritocracy. That is, a state of existence by which a being obtains their place through their merit. Those who are skilled and dedicated will exceed those who are not, yet even those who are dedicated and not as skilled will find a place and be compensated accordingly. "Each according to their merit."

"Freedom" is it were is the quintessential idea espoused by the Federation, an ideal that, when taken to its extreme, leads to anarchy and chaos. Freedom must always be tempered by wisdom and regulation for absolute freedom implies the lack of structure and governance, which is not good for humanity. (This is not to say that the Federation is seeking this sort of mindless end, only that some people's obsession with "freedom" will lead to this end if not regulated.)

The Caldari State does not, as an entity, obsess itself with "freedom," but rather with structure, order and merit. Those who devote themselves to doing what they can for their brothers and sisters will be rewarded accordingly, those that refuse to give will not receive. Those how are lazy or lax will starve. It is the choice of each. In that sense, the State represents freedom to a degree.

But again, "freedom" is not an overpowering concept in the State nor should it ever be.

You, my dear kin, are an example of what I am referring to. Your drive to call Caldari to fight against the Amarr in "freeing" the Minmatar is a begetter of chaos and a disruption of the order and stability the State represents. You are asking your brothers and sisters to turn against the State in order to spread what the State supposedly represents to the rest of the cluster, the Matari in specific.

Instead of issuing a rally call for the Caldari people to betray themselves in idealistic onslaught, consider that the Matari are fighting for the immediate and absolute abolition of oppression against their people because of a generational institution of slavery against them. It is not the same fight we fought and still fight.

If you truly wish to aid the Matari in their plight, do so as the Caldari would. By standing on your convictions and ideals, fighting for what you believe in. Stand beside them if you so desire (for it is indeed a noble cause), but in the end, this is their fight, a fight they must win for themselves. For in the overcoming, they become a stronger people and their merit will grant them victory.

In the meantime, the State must see to itself first. You can barely lend assistance to your neighbor if your own house is in disarray.

~Malcolm Khross
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#4 - 2011-09-08 19:54:10 UTC
In just a few short weeks, you have turned yourself from an amusing and lively character, into an impressive and respectable example of what it means to be Caldari.

Well done, Khross-haan. Welcome home.

Katrina Oniseki
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#5 - 2011-09-08 23:42:47 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
In just a few short weeks, you have turned yourself from an amusing and lively character, into an impressive and respectable example of what it means to be Caldari.


Who's to say he can't be both.

You can be a respectable Caldari and retain a sense of humour y'know.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#6 - 2011-09-08 23:51:29 UTC
I'd like to think I do, Caellach.

~Malcolm Khross
Maximillian Triton
Doomheim
#7 - 2011-09-09 01:46:28 UTC
As one of the many Khanid who support closer ties between the Kingdom and the State, I applaud what you are doing. I have never been a holder, nor would I ever be one. Khanid himself showed us that anyone can break free of the shackles of oppression and go on to do great things. I think the oppression and enslaving of the Minmatar was wrong to have ever been done by the Amarr and hope to see it end soon.

Also I think you have a great sense of humor Captain Khross.

"One can never escape the glaring light of destiny, no matter how dark the hole they crawl into" ~ Commodore Maximillian Triton
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-09-09 12:27:42 UTC
The Caldari State needs more people like you guys.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#9 - 2011-09-09 13:12:46 UTC
The State has a long tradition of being ruled by corporations who bind their workers into employment. Your employer provides you with a place to live, with food, with healthcare, with leisure activities. You get the sack, you lose all of those benefits and you starve.

In many ways the Amarrian system of slavery is more humane.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Ilsenae Alexandros
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2011-09-09 13:22:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Ilsenae Alexandros
Rodj Blake wrote:
The State has a long tradition of being ruled by corporations who bind their workers into employment. Your employer provides you with a place to live, with food, with healthcare, with leisure activities. You get the sack, you lose all of those benefits and you starve.

In many ways the Amarrian system of slavery is more humane.


Is this just because we were talking bad about slavery or are you just bitter about something?

Because I have a nice selection of gourmet teas that'll help you wind down. And no, they aren't spiked or have herbs of questional medicinal value, just plain tea. Come visit at the Tea House, its really very beautiful.

To know the face of God is to know madness.
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#11 - 2011-09-09 13:29:58 UTC
Seems Gallentean ideological and cultural projection is still alive and well. Everyone seems to love the romantic notions of freedom and liberty, or at least, this is the assumption that we Gallente make, and it's that reason why the culture has spread far and wide.
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#12 - 2011-09-09 13:52:43 UTC
It has been enlightening to speak with Ilse and Malcom regarding their new ventures, as well as Caldari society as a whole. It is good to see another place that values the merits of the individual for strengthing the whole.

I wish them success in every venture, and feel I have more to learn from them. Good to see other people, also, value their traditions.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-09-09 14:04:48 UTC
Well said.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#14 - 2011-09-09 14:16:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Khross
Rodj Blake wrote:
The State has a long tradition of being ruled by corporations who bind their workers into employment. Your employer provides you with a place to live, with food, with healthcare, with leisure activities. You get the sack, you lose all of those benefits and you starve.

In many ways the Amarrian system of slavery is more humane.


Huh. You misunderstand the State grossly, admiral.

The State is a meritocracy, that means that each person is measured by their merit. Merit being defined as the "quality of worth rising from one's dedication to, service toward and benefit toward society as a whole." Corporations do not bind individuals into employment, corporations provide avenues by which an individual can benefit the greater whole through service.

The employer does not provide a place to live or food or leisure activities, the employer provides a means by which all of those things can be attained. The State is built upon the idea that each individual has talents and time and are expected to devote both toward the benefit of the society in which they live. If you do not serve the greater whole then you choose not to belong to that whole.

A man who does not work does not eat.
The merit of a man is measured by his dedication and application of himself.
Those most suited to leading will lead, those most suited to following will follow, those most suited to serving will serve.

Every individual has their place. It is a matter of whether or not they choose to apply themselves.

It really isn't more complicated than that.

~Malcolm Khross
Bort Malice
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#15 - 2011-09-09 17:14:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Bort Malice
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Seems Gallentean ideological and cultural projection is still alive and well. (1) Everyone seems to love the romantic notions of freedom and liberty, or at least, this is the assumption that we Gallente make (2), and it's that reason why the culture has spread far and wide.(3)



Typical of a Gallantean to believe he is making an obvious statement while in fact proving the inherent weakness of the Federal "system".

1 I cannot see how this is so. Taken in aggregate the Federation has SHRUNK physically and economically in the last decade, and I do not see what form this "projection" has taken outside your own borders, barring the filth your holoreel vendors peddle.

2 "Seems to love" An illusion, propegated by a wish to see what is not so. And I will not go into the problems with basing your world-view on an assumption, I credit you with at least that intellect.

3 See the problem with statement one, it is more or less the same as statement three.

Of your points the central one is, ironically, both the most important and the most fleeting. How can one base a philospohy and a way of life on these romantic notions. Freedom and liberty do not put food on the table, boots on your feet or hydrogen in your reactor core. Hard work, consitancy, moral fortitude and integrity are far more vital in this universe, my friend.
Faelan Maris
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2011-09-09 19:28:22 UTC
Opposing slavery and seeking to allow the Matari to rise to the best of their own abilities is perhaps not a direct benefit to the State, but it is not anathema either. Our ideal is not freedom in the Gallente sense of the word, and we count the Amarr as important allies, but still the State has taken an indirect stand against slavery. In most cases slaves taken into the State are impounded by Customs authorities, even if they are in the presence of their purportedly lawful owner. These slaves are not returned on departure, and while I cannot say that all of them go free, I do know that the pilot is guaranteed a frostier reception from authorities across the State in the future. I am sure that there are exceptions too, especially for Amarrian corporations and diplomatic delegations operating in Caldari space, but I understand this to be the standard policy and I cannot call it a traitorous act when another capsuleer agrees with it.

Having spoken directly with Ademinan-haan about this issue and his views, my impression is that he may be unconventional but he is no -guri. For while his principle goal may be to address a wrong that lies outside the immediate interests of the State, in almost the same breath he spoke of the opportunity to build goodwill with a potential ally for our people. For this I feel we should give him the benefit of the doubt in his good intentions, unless he proves otherwise by deed. I will not endorse his efforts, for our people need capsuleer arms and industry on the home front, but there are many winds at play and not every true Caldari seedling must sprout on native soil. If Ademinan-haan has found his place outside the State and yet leverages it to better us in the end, then there is yet merit in his efforts. Time will tell.
Ilsenae Alexandros
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2011-09-09 20:44:05 UTC
Indeed so, Ms. Maris. Well said.

To know the face of God is to know madness.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#18 - 2011-09-09 20:52:39 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
The State has a long tradition of being ruled by corporations who bind their workers into employment. Your employer provides you with a place to live, with food, with healthcare, with leisure activities. You get the sack, you lose all of those benefits and you starve.

In many ways the Amarrian system of slavery is more humane.


Huh. You misunderstand the State grossly, admiral.

The State is a meritocracy, that means that each person is measured by their merit. Merit being defined as the "quality of worth rising from one's dedication to, service toward and benefit toward society as a whole." Corporations do not bind individuals into employment, corporations provide avenues by which an individual can benefit the greater whole through service.

The employer does not provide a place to live or food or leisure activities, the employer provides a means by which all of those things can be attained. The State is built upon the idea that each individual has talents and time and are expected to devote both toward the benefit of the society in which they live. If you do not serve the greater whole then you choose not to belong to that whole.

A man who does not work does not eat.
The merit of a man is measured by his dedication and application of himself.
Those most suited to leading will lead, those most suited to following will follow, those most suited to serving will serve.

Every individual has their place. It is a matter of whether or not they choose to apply themselves.

It really isn't more complicated than that.


On many planets owned by megacorps, the megacorp and its subsidiaries have a virtual monoply on all goods and services.

If you want to rent a place to live, you rent it from the megacorp
If you want to buy food, you go to the megacorp-owned supermarket
If you want to travel anywhere, you either use megacorp-owned public transport, or you buy your own means of transportation from the megacorp
If you want to get fit, you go to the megacorp-owned gym
If you fall ill, you go to the megacorp-owned hospital

And how do you pay for all of this? With the salary you receive from the megacorp of course.

Now, of course, someone who works hard and has ability will rise up the corporate ladder. But that's not so different from the Amarrian way where slaves who apply themselves to becoming more Amarrian are freed, where commoners can become holders and where holders can become heirs.

Take a look at Catiz Tash-Murkon for example. She's an heir to the Imperial throne and the richest woman in the Empire. And her ancestors were slaves.

Like you say: those most suited to leading will lead, those most suited to following will follow, those most suited to serving will serve.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#19 - 2011-09-09 21:19:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Khross
Rodj Blake wrote:
In many ways the Amarrian system of slavery is more humane.



Rodj Blake wrote:


Now, of course, someone who works hard and has ability will rise up the corporate ladder. But that's not so different from the Amarrian way where slaves who apply themselves to becoming more Amarrian are freed, where commoners can become holders and where holders can become heirs.

Like you say: those most suited to leading will lead, those most suited to following will follow, those most suited to serving will serve.


Is double speak common in your culture, Admiral?

~Malcolm Khross
Maximillian Triton
Doomheim
#20 - 2011-09-09 22:34:12 UTC
Fear not CPT Khross, it is common that the True Amarr speak from both sides of their mouth. Also the only reason the Tash-Murkon family was elevated to it's status is because the Khanid refused to just pander the ideologies that the Amarr shove down everyone's throats. I find them distasteful people myself and am glad the Khanid left them behind so long ago.

Also, how many Minmatar are holders or heirs in the Amarr Empire Admiral? I would hazard a guess at none since so far your indoctrination of these people has failed miserably. Oh and please don't go counting the Ammatar, as they sold their own people out just to remain "free," and no one likes a traitor.

"One can never escape the glaring light of destiny, no matter how dark the hole they crawl into" ~ Commodore Maximillian Triton
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