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irritating frig fight
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Ganjjabeard
Black Vanguard Ops
#1 - 2012-03-02 16:02:38 UTC
just to be clear, there are no tears to be found here. im posting this as a result of a faction frig 1v1 fight i had the other night. it was me in a duel webbed hookbill vs a republic fleet firetail with a longpoint. we agreed to a 1v1 and started it off. he immediately got range on me and held me with the long point. the entire fight i was not able to get off one single landing rocket because he was orbitting me at about 18-20km and most likely had an mwd. (and i had an ab) what i want to know is what do i do in a situation like this? the fight lasted quite a long time due to his low dps so i had alot of time during the fight to try to manually click around and position myself to land in his swing. nothing worked. he took about 10-15 minutes to pop me (not that i care i was bored anyway) but i found it frustrating that despite my efforts i could not in any way get any closer to the firetail than about 16km tops. (i had duel webs overheated to 13km so i tried to get in that range to slow him down, to no avail) i enjoy frig fights so i plan in being in them more often but i would greatly appreciate some advice on how to go about closing in on a target when both of you are constantly orbitting at long range. thanks
cheers

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Dradius Calvantia
Lip Shords
#2 - 2012-03-02 16:08:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Dradius Calvantia
Start that fight from within scram range

That is one of the problems with arranged 1v1 fights... Once you are on grid the fight is usually already decided. Solo PVP especially is about manipulating the situation to your advantage. In an AB frig, this means starting the fight in scram range and not allowing your self to get kitted. You will need a good understanding of the game mechanics and basic psychology in order to do this.

On a side note.... 15 minutes really? I have yet to meet a frigate of any kind I can not kill with my kitting comets or slicers in under 40-50 seconds.

Edit: If you are caught out and forced to take that fight in an AB frig the only thing you can do is try the standard slingshot to force him to either get too far or too close to you. Usually a MWDing frig will try to hold range farther from you rather than too close which means you have a much better chance of breaking out of point range rather than getting him in scram range.
L0rdF1end
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-03-02 16:26:28 UTC
Starting in scram range isnt a good suggestion because anyone with more speed than you and with good sense using a kite fit just inst going to let that happen.

i would work harder on your manuvability. Increase your Navigation skills to max especially Accerleration control.
Overheat your Afterburner.

Change course quickly and try and judge it so you'll end up close to him by looking at where his orbit path takes him.
You need to be moving in the direction of where he should be moving too in the next 2-3 seconds.
If you make this direction change quickly with an overheat of your afterburner + good navigation skills you'll have a slim chance to get into range so you could overheat your webs and then scram him.

Good luck for next time.
Zathryon
Amarr General Drilling and Construction
#4 - 2012-03-02 16:32:22 UTC
this is why i dont go for AB frig fits personally...they cant compete with other frigs and they cant compete with anything bigger because theyre moving too slow to speed tank the hits.
Ganjjabeard
Black Vanguard Ops
#5 - 2012-03-02 16:41:49 UTC
thanks for your input i understand completely. the problem was that it was an arranged 1v1 fight where we met off grid and were about 200km from eachother so from there he pretty much had a handle on me. but yea it took alot longer than expected like 15 whole minutes or so. according to him he had bad dps. in regards to the manually click and try to meet the target in swing range where he will be in 2-3 seconds, i tried that as well, while overheating my ab (which eventually got destroyed from me forgetting to turn overheat off lol) but yea thanks for the input guys ill certainly apply everything i learned in the next fight :D

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Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#6 - 2012-03-02 17:34:57 UTC
Did you carry javelin rockets? Yes they lower your velocity but if you're being kited in an AB hookbill by a frig faster than you the only thing you can really do is load javelin and pray. You can get an 18 (maybe more) km range with those javelin rockets.
Ganjjabeard
Black Vanguard Ops
#7 - 2012-03-02 17:39:43 UTC
Super Chair wrote:
Did you carry javelin rockets? Yes they lower your velocity but if you're being kited in an AB hookbill by a frig faster than you the only thing you can really do is load javelin and pray. You can get an 18 (maybe more) km range with those javelin rockets.



What?
ahhhh damn lol that probably woulda saved me thanks for letting me know

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Fidelium Mortis
Minor Major Miners LLC
#8 - 2012-03-02 18:00:03 UTC
Try to slingshot them into scram range by burning in a single direction and overheating while they are orbiting away from your path, when they turn to compensate quickly burn into them with your AB and scram/web overheated and try to get them before they adjust their range. If they don't turn into you, simply warp out after you get outside of their long point.

The other option is to fit a TD (optimal range script) which will force them to close range in order to do any damage.

ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon
Ganjjabeard
Black Vanguard Ops
#9 - 2012-03-02 18:07:40 UTC
Fidelium Mortis wrote:


The other option is to fit a TD (optimal range script) which will force them to close range in order to do any damage.



tracking disrupter with optimal range script? is that something that will enhance my range or lower the targets lock range in effect making him get closer to me?

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Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
#10 - 2012-03-02 18:57:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Daneel Trevize
Tracking computer is to enhance your range, tracking disruptor is to diminish theirs. Both mods take the same set of scripts as well as having the unscripted option.

If you started at 200km and could see you wouldn't get into tackle range, just warp off? Or get closer then fly away, making their closing speed only the difference between your two ships, and if you slam on the brakes/hit approach & heat mids they might not turn away in time.
Kate Lockwell
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#11 - 2012-03-02 18:57:42 UTC
Ganjjabeard wrote:
Fidelium Mortis wrote:


The other option is to fit a TD (optimal range script) which will force them to close range in order to do any damage.



tracking disrupter with optimal range script? is that something that will enhance my range or lower the targets lock range in effect making him get closer to me?


it will lower the range on his guns
Ganjjabeard
Black Vanguard Ops
#12 - 2012-03-02 19:03:41 UTC
i see. damn yea that more than likely would have solved my problem and most likeley would have made me the winner of this battle. ill remember that for my next hookbill fit. i had it duel webbed should i drop a web for a td range script?

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Korg Tronix
Mole Station Nursery
#13 - 2012-03-02 19:27:43 UTC
Try running a dual prop fit on your hookbill, I have only lost one to a biting slicer so far. Sling shot him and he will probably get caught and if you can't catch him you have more than enough speed to escape

Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One! [zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams]
Ganjjabeard
Black Vanguard Ops
#14 - 2012-03-02 19:45:01 UTC
Korg Tronix wrote:
Try running a dual prop fit on your hookbill, I have only lost one to a biting slicer so far. Sling shot him and he will probably get caught and if you can't catch him you have more than enough speed to escape



sorry i am still kind of a n00b whats it mean prop? is that the propulsion rigs? yea im pretty sure that hookbill i was flying had 2 of them already : /

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Korg Tronix
Mole Station Nursery
#15 - 2012-03-02 19:48:23 UTC
Ganjjabeard wrote:
Korg Tronix wrote:
Try running a dual prop fit on your hookbill, I have only lost one to a biting slicer so far. Sling shot him and he will probably get caught and if you can't catch him you have more than enough speed to escape



sorry i am still kind of a n00b whats it mean prop? is that the propulsion rigs? yea im pretty sure that hookbill i was flying had 2 of them already : /


It means fit an ab and an Mwd. You use the Mwd to catch them then the ab to lower the incoming dps once they are caught and to dictate range

Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One! [zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams]
Ganjjabeard
Black Vanguard Ops
#16 - 2012-03-02 20:20:43 UTC
Korg Tronix wrote:
Ganjjabeard wrote:
Korg Tronix wrote:
Try running a dual prop fit on your hookbill, I have only lost one to a biting slicer so far. Sling shot him and he will probably get caught and if you can't catch him you have more than enough speed to escape



sorry i am still kind of a n00b whats it mean prop? is that the propulsion rigs? yea im pretty sure that hookbill i was flying had 2 of them already : /


It means fit an ab and an Mwd. You use the Mwd to catch them then the ab to lower the incoming dps once they are caught and to dictate range



hmm interesting, i didnt realize people would use an ab AND mwd on the same ship. and just to be sure, any point that is considered long point ie 20k none of the points shut down the mwd correct? (whereas the shortpoint would deactivate the mwd) just so i know for later reference if im pointed from way far away ill know that my mwd should still work to close range

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Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#17 - 2012-03-02 20:55:07 UTC
Short point (scrams rather than disruptors) are the only ones that will turn off an mwd.

Bear in mind with all this advice that it's always easy to provide advice in hindsight and it sounds like you are already using what was available to you at the time of the fight, slingshot attempts etc... so take on board what people have said on top of what you already learned and keep at it.

Here are a couple of Hookbill fits you can consider. Both dual prop, and the one I prefer which is dual web...

[Caldari Navy Hookbill, Dual Prop]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Ballistic Control System II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
1MN Afterburner II
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I



[Caldari Navy Hookbill, double web]
Overdrive Injector System II
Ballistic Control System II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Stasis Webifier II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Ganjjabeard
Black Vanguard Ops
#18 - 2012-03-02 21:00:01 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Short point (scrams rather than disruptors) are the only ones that will turn off an mwd.

Bear in mind with all this advice that it's always easy to provide advice in hindsight and it sounds like you are already using what was available to you at the time of the fight, slingshot attempts etc... so take on board what people have said on top of what you already learned and keep at it.

Here are a couple of Hookbill fits you can consider. Both dual prop, and the one I prefer which is dual web...

[Caldari Navy Hookbill, Dual Prop]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Ballistic Control System II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
1MN Afterburner II
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I



[Caldari Navy Hookbill, double web]
Overdrive Injector System II
Ballistic Control System II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Stasis Webifier II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I



ahh thank you thank you this is very helpful i like the duel prop fit very much! i was runnin duel webs (would have demolished that firetail had i caught up to range) but yea thats a great idea with 2 prop mods im still pretty new to the game so i didnt figure people would be doing that lol but i see now why it comes in handy! now i just have to burn through the rest of my friday at work so i can run home, fit up that duel prop and give it a try

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Fidelium Mortis
Minor Major Miners LLC
#19 - 2012-03-02 21:14:22 UTC
Make sure you practice with the dual prop setup ahead of time to get a feel for the timing. Two propulsion modules can't be active at the same time, which can be an issue.

ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon
Ganjjabeard
Black Vanguard Ops
#20 - 2012-03-02 21:21:49 UTC
Fidelium Mortis wrote:
Make sure you practice with the dual prop setup ahead of time to get a feel for the timing. Two propulsion modules can't be active at the same time, which can be an issue.



i see. yea what i would do is if im caught in that situation again of being kited at a distance i cant catch is follow the targets orbit path and guestimate where theyd be in about 2-3 seconds and then manually click and activate mwd for a short time to burst in that direction. at that point i would be hoping to land on our near the targets projected position. one question though. someone mentioned fitting a Tracking Disrupter on the hookbill which would force the target to move closer (all i really need is about 13k since my webs can catch at 13k overheated) so how would the TD come into play with dual props? would those be able to work together or are they situation dependent? i would assume a TD fit hookbill might be better because either way it forces the target to get closer which is the main reason im losing because of range. if a target orbiting me at ~19k was TD'd by me, what would be the average range of the target to be able to engage me while being TD'd? just outa curiosity. my reasoning is if its a fast ship like another firetail or even a dramiel or something of the like, i want to be able to web them which i know my overheated web range is 13km. would 19km TD'd be brought down to at least 13k or so?

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