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New dev blog: Team Security - Banning Bad Guys and also Bad Guys

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Sirius Cassiopeiae
Perkone
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-03-01 17:41:05 UTC
Quote:
BUT WAIT, THERE IS EVEN MORE! From now on, and this current wave is included, characters who receive a warning such as this will have the characters locked to the account. This means that once you've received a warning for botting your character transfer privileges have been revoked in perpetuity. This is to prevent people trying to circumvent the rules by recycling accounts. Yes we know people pointed out this could happen last time around and if you'll remember we said "We'll keep an eye on it and if it becomes a problem we'll deal with it". Here is us dealing with it. We'll probably have to come up with some form of timing solution for the future, but as it stands today it's forever. If you care about your dudes don't to bad things.


THNX A LOT Big smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smile


and,

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE MAKE THAT PERMANENT!!!!!

If you put it on timer botters will make a little more accs and when time pass out sell the old one that was locked and buy new one for reserve. And you will have that bad circle of recycling chars started again, only circles will be a little bigger (more chars in the same circle).
You see that we were right last time and you didn't listen, listen us this time and keep locked chars permanently locked to that account.
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan
#22 - 2012-03-01 17:41:30 UTC
Yeah, so now I want to hear Soundwave speaking in Japanese. Next video devblog please P

Also keep up the good work on the bot front folks

"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom."
Mikelii
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-03-01 17:41:31 UTC
Darius Johnson for CEO.
Aryndel Vyst
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-03-01 17:44:32 UTC
SREEGS
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#25 - 2012-03-01 17:45:07 UTC
The character transfer lock will have some interesting effects. Up to now the botters have tended to drive up the PLEX, first by having a pile of accounts that consume them, then via RMT. But they also consumed PLEX via character transfers. Now, all those ways of driving up the PLEX are gone. Will we see a PLEX price drop, or even crash? That depends on just how much of the PLEX market was bot driven, and how elastic it is. Interesting times ahead!

I was unaware of the pause in bot killing. That explains alot. Nice to see the system back in business. Keep up the good work Sreegs & Co!

P.S. can we get a higher resolution version of that picture? What is all that?

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Chanina
ASGARD HEAVY INDUSTRIES
#26 - 2012-03-01 17:45:51 UTC
Nice blog, epic pic Blink

Making them sticky to an account is really good.

Still would be nice to some how SEE if someone was banned. Recruiters could use that info to interrogate oh I mean interview the applicant.
Shandir
EVE University
Ivy League
#27 - 2012-03-01 17:46:01 UTC
Actually read the devblog now - good news to read.
Sreegs - could you share figures on how many of those 'large percentage' of botters who do not get a second warning, also do not continue their subscription?
That is to say, are these people who are not getting a second warning really turning into good players, or are they simply making new accounts?
Sarmatiko
#28 - 2012-03-01 17:48:09 UTC
MisterNick wrote:
Yeah, so now I want to hear Soundwave speaking in Japanese. Next video devblog please P

Yes, ask him to say "Anata no banana punyu-punyu dane" on camera Bear
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#29 - 2012-03-01 17:49:11 UTC
Grarr Dexx wrote:
You say that the recidivism rate for the third strike is as low as 3%, but what percentage of the accounts related to one or two strikes actually remain subbed? These people are spoiled beyond the rules of Eve and the warning system probably forces them to quit altogether.


We have that number as well and it's actually also very low. I'll have it all put together and prettied up for Fanfest but if you can find my presentation from EVE Vegas somewhere I'm pretty sure there's a slide in there that shows all these percentages. At least at the time.

It takes a few months to gather really good data on this so we're going off of old rates, but as someone else mentioned, the general idea is to change behavior and turn people into good law abiding citizens.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#30 - 2012-03-01 17:49:44 UTC
OH ccp, what are you doing to make sure they don't just RMT away the accounts? (sell the account for real money) when they get locked...

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CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#31 - 2012-03-01 17:52:05 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
The character transfer lock will have some interesting effects. Up to now the botters have tended to drive up the PLEX, first by having a pile of accounts that consume them, then via RMT. But they also consumed PLEX via character transfers. Now, all those ways of driving up the PLEX are gone. Will we see a PLEX price drop, or even crash? That depends on just how much of the PLEX market was bot driven, and how elastic it is. Interesting times ahead!

I was unaware of the pause in bot killing. That explains alot. Nice to see the system back in business. Keep up the good work Sreegs & Co!

P.S. can we get a higher resolution version of that picture? What is all that?


We have things in place to measure a lot of stuff. One thing we've noticed historically is that when we have the system running the CPU per user count on the server goes way down, which provides a quality of life improvement for everyone in EVE and helps with the lag monster. I'll come up with some nice interesting data in the next couple of weeks to share with everyone.

The stuff in the photo is from an area outside of the city where tremendous piles of fish are hung out to dry, similar to how the rotten shark or hakarl is treated after it's pulled out of the ground. I was on my way to walk around a really cool geothermal area and this was on the way and I couldn't resist.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
KFenn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-03-01 17:52:16 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
OH ccp, what are you doing to make sure they don't just RMT away the accounts? (sell the account for real money) when they get locked...

In all honesty, what can they do? If they suspect the account has been involved in RMT they can close it, but it's really, really hard to detect that.

Commanding Officer of the Treacle Tart Brigade
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#33 - 2012-03-01 17:54:04 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
OH ccp, what are you doing to make sure they don't just RMT away the accounts? (sell the account for real money) when they get locked...


RMT is a different problem that we're dealing with and we're not ready to have a discussion about that yet, but it's being worked on and there's a huge gap between "being worked on" meaning "we're doin' thangs" and "ready to tell players what we're doing".

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Grideris
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-03-01 17:55:13 UTC
Good move CCP.

Your move botters.

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jonnykefka
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#35 - 2012-03-01 17:55:38 UTC
Sreegsalicious

I too would like a little more data on the recidivism stats. I mean, only 3% go on to further warnings mean that only 3% are stupid enough to get CAUGHT botting again on the same accounts. How many of those with first warnings unsub? How many moved chars around (prior to this latest tweak)? In short, is it that they are actually no longer botting, or that they're hiding it better?

Also, if you really want to teach the lesson, nuke their wallet totals and assets with the first offense. Not entirely, just as much as you can reliably trace to automated activities. They're botting for isk, threaten the isk on the first strike and you alter the risk/benefit equation of botting at ALL by quite a bit. It might dissuade some people from botting in the first place.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#36 - 2012-03-01 17:57:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
OK I got a question: "1000 to 2000 bans": Say one player has 5 accounts, 2 of which were botted, and you ban them. I know you an all 5 accounts, but how do you count that in your 1000 to 2000 total? Is that counted as

One ban because you issued a ban against one player,
Two bans because you banned 2 botting accounts,
Five bans because you banned all five accounts?

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Fictional Hero
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-03-01 17:57:43 UTC
That is a lot of words and you didnt say anything that hasnt been said before. I thought the purpose of the Dev Blogs was to tell us stuff, instead you say things like "charts will be at fanfest". It makes it seem that you did this as a fanfest publicity stunt, which you said wasnt.

tl;dr

Lock thread due to lack of content.

or

gas thread ban op.
Chiggy W
Hard-Luck Industries
#38 - 2012-03-01 17:59:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Chiggy W
Awesome work, and I'm extremely glad that you've prevented the mongs from transfering charaters. I want to pick up on one point tho

Quote:

"Three strikes is too weak" - Here we disagree but there's a reason why. I've shown charts before and I'll have a set at Fanfest that shows that we're effective at changing behavior by using these bans (with a caveat). What I mean is that a fraction of people actually get a second warning and the amount of people in all time who have ever hit a third was something ridiculous like 3%. There's some new things though related to this that I'm going to be a good egg and share with you though in a separate paragraph.


Have you guys considered the fact that most accounts only get dinged once because they just start up a new account once they get caught? I mean you've got to be a real mouthbreather to continue botting on an account that has been dinged once, so I think the metric that 1 temp ban is enough may be slightly flawed. Ultimately I guess it doesn't matter because even if perma-banned, the hardcore botters/RMT'ers are just going to start another account anyway, but I am certainly interested to know if you guys have considered this point, and how many accounts have their chars sold then go inactive after the first warning.

Anyway, keep up the good fight, I love to see this scum removed from game, and please catch them as they inevitably come scurrying back like the cockroaches they are. Cool

Great work guys!
Reynald Tork
RU Industry
#39 - 2012-03-01 17:59:08 UTC
"We'll probably have to come up with some form of timing solution for the future, but as it stands today it's forever. "

Arrow Lock a character to account must be permanent, forever and ever!
Ferria
Outsourced Manufacturing
#40 - 2012-03-01 17:59:51 UTC
woohoo, and yes best pic ever.