These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

SUGGESTION: War Dec Optimizations
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Arden Bastilla
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-03-01 16:09:31 UTC
Intro: The whole goal of this post is not to stop being able to declare war but to make it more realistic and a more enjoyable experience.

Problem: So being able to declare war is apart of EVE and I'm all for it. How ever I think it is unrealistic for a corp/alliance to be able to continuously war dec your corp/alliance repeatedly. Let me explain what I mean by this.

In the RW you have a finite amount of resources to be able to commit to the war and money to pay for it (unless you print more money :( ).

Solutions: What my suggestion is to make war dec'ing more balanced is to:


  1. have the cost of declaring war against the same corp/alliance increase and decrease based on the frequency of the declarations. So if you don't declare in a couple a months the cost has gone down. This would help to weed out griefer corps/alliances from just trying to disrupt ops by dec'ing. I know that lots of corps/alliances can pool a lot of money so the scale on this would probably be exponential to differentiate between real wars and grief wars.

  2. you might be able to implement some kind of war resource system. Example would be based on the total number of current members of corp/alliance when you declare. That when you declare against another corp/alliance the amount of war resources that you have to use depletes by the size of the corp/alliance that you war dec. The point of this would to bring the realism of the fact that it takes time to regenerate forces before they can be used again. So say you war dec a corp/alliance that has half as many members (at dec time) as you do. Then you could back to back declare war against them but after that you would have to wait until your forces were regenerated.


    • Other advantages of this kind of system would be that you could implement corresponding skills to decrease your individual regeneration time and your corp time. Look at it how you can improve your mining skills on your own or with command ships and skills you can improve a whole fleet.
    • you could even add in the ability to manufacture at POS's resources that reduce regeneration time or increase the amount of resources available to the corp/alliance.
    • that adds a whole new depth to pvp and gives pvp corps/alliances something to work towards.




Please feel free to comment and make suggestions/tweaks to what I have said.

Now that being said I know how easy it is to bash people and to get into a flame war; but remember that people are more likely to respond if you are nice and constructive vs angry and have a power level over 9000!!!

SO LET'S GET TO SYNERGIZING A GREAT SOLUTION/SUGGEST FOR CCP TO CONSIDER
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#2 - 2012-03-01 16:35:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
these are dumb ideas.

You already have to constantly wardec to pursue corporations that alliance hop. If several leave their alliance 1 dec turns into 5 easily. Costs can run up to 1 bil per week already, so I don't know exactly what you're hoping to accomplish by what you've suggested in point #1. If you suggest that wardec costs be reduced for people that pursue specific targets instead of cycling wardecs every week, then that just further encourages alliance hopping.

As for #2 There already is a "war resource system" Its called having ships to fight with, fuel for your poses, and isk to burn on wardec costs. Introducing a phony mechanic to artificially limit an organization's capacity to fight is stupid, unless you give it some other purpose.

You haven't even addressed the commonly accepted problems with the system. It sounds like you just want less people to use the wardec system entirely by adding a new layer of complexity that has nothing to do with blowing up ships or assets.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#3 - 2012-03-01 17:10:00 UTC
This is the wrong section.
We already had hundreds of threads about it.
Your ideas aren't good.

1. Why not, until I saw the words "cost could be exponential". No, no, no. Please forget about it.This is a pvp game where ships shoot at other ships. Not a game where you have to grind 34758 space bears to have the right to shoot someone for one hour.
2. No. Someone made an excellent answer about "why the wardec fees should be flat rates". Read that :
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=854187#post854187

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Andrea Griffin
#4 - 2012-03-01 21:26:38 UTC
Also, this would unfairly punish mercenaries.

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#5 - 2012-03-01 21:55:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
In real life declaring war costs you absolutely nothing and the cost of the war comes from the huge quantities of manpower and resources required to build up and maintain a military that is engaged in fighting. If your problem is that wars are "unrealistic" the thing to do would be to remove the arbitrary fee completely.

You also might not realize it, but there are already resources that people need to pay for in order to fight wars. Ships, ammunition, fuel and locator agent expenses all contribute to the overall cost of wars already without adding in some absurd and totally pointless scaling cost system.
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#6 - 2012-03-02 00:47:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Deen Wispa
I have a hard time taking OP seriously because he couldn't even spell Gallente properly in his corp name Oops

Just wait till Inferno comes along and all will be well with New Eden Hisec

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .
Arden Bastilla
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-03-02 06:55:50 UTC
Good points, honestly I hadn't spent time going through the forums to see what was out there and that was my bad...

Second I didn't spell my corp name, meh who cares.

I read the flat rate post you linked and I understand what you mean by a flat rate being the best solution for the monetary balancing. I did say "could be exponential" as in that was my idea and I was open to suggestions. So keeping it at a flat rate of increase would serve the purpose of making it so that you don't have to alliance hop to increase war costs. I see that as using a game feature as a loop hole to drive up the expense of war dec'ing. So why not build that in so that you don't have to break up alliances and corps just to drive up the cost of a war. Thoughts?

Okay, so there are two types of war declarations then if I'm seeing this right.
1. the pvp kind that ships will get destroyed in
2. the economic kind that basically through scare tactics of being able to be attacked freely causes corps to shut down ops in order to protect assets as a form of war.

1. costs lots of resources to maintain,
2. costs mostly isk

both are valid tactics

how do these ideas punish mercenaries?
Lex Spades
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-03-02 09:30:46 UTC
Their are and aren't problems with the system, simple fact, if a rule is created theres someone out there that thinks it's dumb and thinks they can think of a better solution.
I'm not going to propose a fix I'm just going to state some thinking points.

In the thought of realism an earlier comment that real life doesn't have some idiot fee you have to pay to declare it is absolutely true. Some country or group just has to decide to start shooting. The only thing stoping everyone from dong that all over the world is the fear of death. Eve has no fear of death, you are Immortal. So they had to implement something that would deter people from war. In psychology the next most important thing to a human in usually something of value that can be replaced or at least not easily replaced. Like money, so they put a fee on War Dec's. To make it logical. Now thats a good thought but it doesn't make the game more real, but it does help replace an imbalance that immortality creates. So if you take away the fee, everyone and they're brother will be free to shoot at anyone anywhere with no warning. Which would Nerf SecStatice.

There are many aspects of this game, many professions and many uses of things thats aren't immediately apparent to people who don't use them that way or that have an opinion that makes the person that does look wrong.

My advice before you try to tackle a subject and it's realism or lack there of. Look at more perspectives other than your own before forming a theory. Use the scientific method. If you don't know what that is then Google it or if you have Google use Bing, and if you hate Bing go to the library and find and encyclopedia and if you don't wanna do that..... Well then go **** yourself lol cuz they're just search engines designed to help you navigate a question and your lazy lol.

Now i've only scratch a little tiny bit into the major complexity that is the Universe of EVE and the psychology of the people in it. But trust me, when CCP implements something theres a guy at a computer that has a major headache because he's been thinking of all the implications his idea can arouse and all the things it can do to the Universe, and he has a boss looking over his shoulder telling him if this doesn't work then your getting demoted lol.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#9 - 2012-03-04 22:48:18 UTC
War decs are fine. If someone is always starting war dec's against you - then you are doing something to encourage them.

Helpful tip - Never, ever evemail the aggressor. If you are feeding them evemail tears, they will never go away.

If you are war decced - I recommend going to low sec for the week.
If they are the standard high sec war dec corp they will pee their Hello Kitty panties at the thought of jumping into low sec.


I have never been war decced in eve.

Had to join FW just to get shot at.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#10 - 2012-03-05 03:29:04 UTC
High sec is not for pvp, its a carebear candy land with weekend warriors trying to get a fight from indy alts. Real PVP'ers move

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Proteus Maximus
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-03-05 12:44:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Proteus Maximus
sYnc Vir wrote:
High sec is not for pvp, its a carebear candy land with weekend warriors trying to get a fight from indy alts. Real PVP'ers move


Some PVP'ers have Wives, Children & Careers.
The above in most cases don't allow for being chained to a desk...You know for 90 minutes or better waiting for fleet to form up only to be culled out of the blob after 90 seconds. Some folks also can't invest the time required by most "PVP" alliances. You're either active and useful or kicked and raped for what ever ***** left in sov space.
In conclusion..maybe if being in a "real pvp alliance" was more like a leisure activity than fking employment there wouldn't be so many recruitment threads begging well trained folks like myself to move.
Helpful hint. Try not being a hardon for one & two let folks play on their terms. So the games fun.
Just saying.

If Goons were around when God said, "Let there be light" they'd have called the light gay, and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it.
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#12 - 2012-03-05 13:14:29 UTC
Proteus Maximus wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
High sec is not for pvp, its a carebear candy land with weekend warriors trying to get a fight from indy alts. Real PVP'ers move


Some PVP'ers have Wives, Children & Careers.
The above in most cases don't allow for being chained to a desk...You know for 90 minutes or better waiting for fleet to form up only to be culled out of the blob after 90 seconds. Some folks also can't invest the time required by most "PVP" alliances. You're either active and useful or kicked and raped for what ever ***** left in sov space.
In conclusion..maybe if being in a "real pvp alliance" was more like a leisure activity than fking employment there wouldn't be so many recruitment threads begging well trained folks like myself to move.
Helpful hint. Try not being a hardon for one & two let folks play on their terms. So the games fun.
Just saying.


Null sec is ****. Embrace the undock and shoot whatever you want fun filled land that we call Low Sec. Were undocking and seeing a ship is actually undocking and seeing a fight. If you want it. Not everyone in eve lives for null. Null is about the most boring grind in eve. Even MINING is less of a grind than null. Station CTAs? **** that.

Low sec mate, its the undock casual pew pew of dreams.

Sitting is Candy covered carebear land because "I HAVE A LIFE" (Worse arguement ever, last time I check she said I too had one) and complaining the indy toons you War Decced don't want to pew pew back. "Helpful hint" 99% of Mining toons are trained only for mining so will never pew pew.

I sit in a nice friendly corp whos only job is to log on and kill stuff. We have alot of fun and being in FW dont always have to go pirate to get said fight. Casual PVP is out their, I maintain anyone bitching about not getting it, or believe they only get it in high sec has failed to look.

Set course for your nearest low sec system, but go in something cheap first. Its low sec 70% chance entry system is camped by pirates.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Proteus Maximus
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-03-06 13:32:16 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:
Proteus Maximus wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
High sec is not for pvp, its a carebear candy land with weekend warriors trying to get a fight from indy alts. Real PVP'ers move


Some PVP'ers have Wives, Children & Careers.
The above in most cases don't allow for being chained to a desk...You know for 90 minutes or better waiting for fleet to form up only to be culled out of the blob after 90 seconds. Some folks also can't invest the time required by most "PVP" alliances. You're either active and useful or kicked and raped for what ever ***** left in sov space.
In conclusion..maybe if being in a "real pvp alliance" was more like a leisure activity than fking employment there wouldn't be so many recruitment threads begging well trained folks like myself to move.
Helpful hint. Try not being a hardon for one & two let folks play on their terms. So the games fun.
Just saying.


Null sec is ****. Embrace the undock and shoot whatever you want fun filled land that we call Low Sec. Were undocking and seeing a ship is actually undocking and seeing a fight. If you want it. Not everyone in eve lives for null. Null is about the most boring grind in eve. Even MINING is less of a grind than null. Station CTAs? **** that.

Low sec mate, its the undock casual pew pew of dreams.

Sitting is Candy covered carebear land because "I HAVE A LIFE" (Worse arguement ever, last time I check she said I too had one) and complaining the indy toons you War Decced don't want to pew pew back. "Helpful hint" 99% of Mining toons are trained only for mining so will never pew pew.

I sit in a nice friendly corp whos only job is to log on and kill stuff. We have alot of fun and being in FW dont always have to go pirate to get said fight. Casual PVP is out their, I maintain anyone bitching about not getting it, or believe they only get it in high sec has failed to look.

Set course for your nearest low sec system, but go in something cheap first. Its low sec 70% chance entry system is camped by pirates.


Been there done that M8..all the way to -10.
Check my corp history in game..The Black Rabbits & Flashy Red to save you some time. Thing is Piratage with out an indy toon or 2 supporting it is an exorcize in poverty. Tails of yarrage being supported on the back of loot drops and ransoms are glorious to tell but fall short of reality.
Now the added factor is paying for a second account (barley justifying the first one) + a required amount equal time bearing it up in hello kitty land. Trust me I don't like it any more than you.. How ever it's a solution to an imperfect situation for some of us. If CCP needs to fix something that will really affect PVP it's the security hit system in low sec. Let us pew & still have the ability to easily grind back our losses on a single account.

If Goons were around when God said, "Let there be light" they'd have called the light gay, and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it.