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New dev blog: What's in a name

First post First post
Author
Sam Bowein
Sense Amid Madness
#421 - 2012-03-01 21:22:45 UTC
Gilbarun wrote:
Confirming I actually like trauma missiles

I also like the idea of items being named with the following scheme:

'(nickname)' (meta indicator) (type)

'arbalest' prototype cruise missile launcher

you should still reconsider the meta indicators and the launcher names, but you will gain ease of access without loosing flavor

The nickname (Arbalest) gives information about module type (missile launcher) and meta level (4). Two possibilities:

- If you know what it represents, all you need to know to fully identify the module is its type (cruise)
So, in order to facilitate its identification by long time players, the beginning of the name should be 'Arbalest cruise' (you only need to read the first two words fully identify the module)

- If you don't know what the nickname represents, you need to read further. But the meta module is difficult to immediately understand: why using a word for describing a numerical scale ? Better keep the number logic !

TLDR: 'Arbalest' prototyp cruise missile launcher > 'Arbalest' cruise M4 missile launcher
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
RONA Directorate
#422 - 2012-03-01 21:25:41 UTC
JamesCLK wrote:
All praise Gnauton, for he hath saved our PWN, PWNT, PWND and PWNAGE!
<3



This.


Thanks for listening to us, ok guys now we need to come up with an easier naming scheme but keep it super sci-fi .


My thoughts on rails -

When you do the bg research on rail guns there are different types rail guns , coil, gauss etc and the way they are built are all different. Anyway i digress.

For rails

Railgun I - ok

my issue is with the carbide and 'scout' guns. See when searching for items the minmatar meta 4 are all 'scout' cannons so all I have to do is search for scout but it also brings up minmatar. which is bad. I would suggest carbine but that might get mixed up with the carbide as they are too similar. Also cannon seems a little too out there as when i think of cannon i dont think of a rail gun.

So here our my thoughts.

Railgun I
Plasma Armature Railgun
Carbide Railgun
Compressed Coil Railgun
Prototype Gauss Gun
Railgun II

- I am trying to keep comformity using guns in all of them. But looking at this random wiki page There are some interesting variations to the rail gun.


Now as for blasters - I have always found that was confusing until i could use t2 then i said screw trying to remember it.
Limited, regulated, anode, modal. Now I think anode and modal are cool and easy to remember for 3 and 4, limited and regulated dont seem to fit the scheme. As i think about it more they dont seem to fit at all, any of them. When being issued a set of large armorments I like to think of a serial number or something on them.

so for blasters why not make a naming scheme kind of similar to that of implants.

Light neutron blaster I
LNB-100 neutron blaster
LNB-200 limited neutron blaster
etc.

This preserves some of the original naming scheme but also gives a prefix similar to that of implants which makes it easier to search and preserve some uninqueness to naming.


As for others give me a few I think all minmatar guns should be renamed to the appropriate ammo they use from spare change to volkswagons. I for one welcome the new 1400 series volkswagon launcher II.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.

Anvil44
Independent Traders and Builders
#423 - 2012-03-01 21:36:39 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Hmm a names for a kinetic missiles.

meh
Anvil
meh
Anyways thank you CCP for taking a chance to step back and review the module naming execution.



I HEARTILY approve of this choice!Lol

I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it.

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#424 - 2012-03-01 21:40:23 UTC
i am not sure what you intended to fix with the metalevel renaming in the first place.

the meta levels lead to the thinking that the higher the level the better the item. Items however have more than one attribute. So its hard to say what is better. For example, there are some meta 4 items which are better (or equal) in basically every attribute which matters including the price compared to the tech 2 equivalent. I am not sure if this is intended or just a balancing artifact.

So... please go back to the drawing board and think again about all that. Maybe it would make sense to use scify tokens instead of bad/better/ok/good modifiers. It looks to me like you tried something like that however since you didn't explain what you tried to do, it was probably misunderstood since 90% of all people i talked to think in the higher the meta, the better the item scheme.

and yeah, find a better name for small medium lasers since they collide with medium lasers - but i said that already :)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Anvil44
Independent Traders and Builders
#425 - 2012-03-01 21:42:54 UTC
Wow, lots of different ideas. Since you have this nifty forum CCP and players have come up with lots of idea, why not break them down by groups and let us VOTE on them in an online poll by ranking possibilities from best to worst? As long as we have an active account, we should get to voice an opinion. Filter them so one player gets one vote. Majority rules. You must be able to come up with 5 or 6 options that should make most people somewhat happy.

Lets face it, no matter what, this Pandora's Box has been opened. At least if I get a vote, I will feel that my opinion counted, even if it is the worst choice I could imagine.

I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it.

Phobos Vortex
#426 - 2012-03-01 21:46:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Phobos Vortex
CCP Gnauton wrote:

Missiles: We still do firmly believe in the usability of a single name across all missiles of a given damage type, but the "Trauma" designator seems to have violently struck a nerve with several of you guys. Since this is early days for this project, anything is possible. If anybody can come up with a sufficiently convincing and objective reason for why this name is the infernal love-child of bad taste and cluelessness, then I will seriously consider changing it. (I'm thinking something like "Anguish" might be good, whaddaya think? Just kidding, I like being alive.)


A hopefully sufficiently convincing and objective reason to change the name "Trauma" is that this word is related to organic matter. Since the majority of Ships in EVE is not organic a medical expression like "Trauma" is simply not suitable. When im surfing in space on my fresh rescued damsel with my bean fueled methane thruster and my damsel bounces her head on the jita hangar door while playing docking games then a "Trauma" is in the right place to describe the damage done to my space vessel. But when im hit by a kinetic missile in that situation my damsel should be chunky salsa instead of having a Trauma. In addition the word Trauma lacks of coolness in comparison to old kinetic missile names like "Terror" or "Scourge" for example.
I personally would prefer the name "Impact" for kinetic damage. Its much more suitable for what a kinetic missile does when it meets the cold steel of a spaceship. Much like "Inferno" it can easily be associated with the kind of damage it does while it simply sounds cool. The name "Nova" sounds too soft for an explosion. Try to find something with more hard consonants that you can feel the BAM by spelling the word. And for EM damage i had to google the word "Mjolnir" to determine what type of crispbread it is. Please consider to change it to something more sci-fi.

Here comes a list of words i would prefer:

Thermic: Inferno (cant think of a better name to assoiciate with "really hot" Twisted)

Kinetic: Impact / Force (if you cant feel the punch of fathers fist its definitely the wrong word)

Explosive: Detonator / Devastator / Blast (thats what it does and sounds like "BAM")

EM: Photon / Quantum (electromagnetic radiation consists of them and it permits to have photon torpedoes Cool)
Cailais
The Red Pill Taker Group
Exxitium
#427 - 2012-03-01 22:17:28 UTC
If name changes are needed, why not use the existing lore to draw inspiration. Perhaps Ytiri Corp are renowned for making reduced quality but inexpensive turrets systems?

Ytiri 150mm Railgun

or

Propel Dynamics 10mn Afterburner

Sounds much better to my mind than some random adjective & might even pave the way towards player corporation branding of material goods.

C.


Random Womble
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
#428 - 2012-03-01 22:32:22 UTC
One thing that has been bugging me actually in general is the slight obsession with meta level as an indicator of the quality of the item as a higher meta level does not always mean a better item even within T1 named modules (faction have more examples but is outside the general scope of this discussion)

Missile launchers are a good example where although higher meta level does reflect more DPS for another attribute (CPU requirements) the order of best to worst by meta level is 1>4>2>3>0 (this is a good thing in a way as it makes lower grade weapons useful in some situations)

Then there are hull upgrades like cargo expanders. Firstly here to confuse matters you have module types with separate variations with the same name the basic expanded cargohold (and its offshoots) and the expanded cargohold I and its offspring .

Ignoring the Expanded Cargohold I family initially and looking only at the basic family all of the basic family are considered meta 0 yet have a cargo capacity bonus which ranges from 15% to 24.2% and when you then bring in the Expanded cargohold I family matters get more confusing with the best basic (meta 0) module being better than the meta1 and 2 modules for the cargohold I family variety of mods.

Then there are the ECCM mods and backup arrays which have one set of meta 0 and 1 modules but 2 meta 2, 3 and 4 modules,, the backup arrays have no variations in quality but the ECCM modules have different cycle timers, activation costs, and heat damage for the 2 modules at each meta level giving each different small advantages and disadvantages (and because of this i would advocate not removing them)

This is only if you rely on meta level as an indicator and generally i think that these variations that dont keep in line with meta level variation offer up different options (E.g. do i fit a co-proc and arbalest launchers or do i fit malkuths and fit a BCS) and faction and storyline items can often be worse or the same as T1 counterparts in some areas same goes for T2.


Anja Talis
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal
#429 - 2012-03-01 22:49:26 UTC
CCP Gnauton wrote:

Missiles: We still do firmly believe in the usability of a single name across all missiles of a given damage type, but the "Trauma" designator seems to have violently struck a nerve with several of you guys. Since this is early days for this project, anything is possible. If anybody can come up with a sufficiently convincing and objective reason for why this name is the infernal love-child of bad taste and cluelessness, then I will seriously consider changing it. (I'm thinking something like "Anguish" might be good, whaddaya think? Just kidding, I like being alive.)


How about Scourge? :)
Dark Drifter
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
#430 - 2012-03-01 23:05:30 UTC
Zainou 'Snapshot' Heavy Missiles HM-703.....


is still a mouthful

change to just acronyms so this one would be:

Zainou 'Snapshot' HM-703


after all any idiot can figure out the acronyms for skills
Bent Barrel
#431 - 2012-03-01 23:24:07 UTC
OMG Gnauton listens !!!

Anyway, please consider the plethora of guides that are no longer maintained (but still valid) that you will obsolete in one rather stupid change. EVE has a history of players for players guides and tools that use the current naming convention. This will all be obsoleted and new players will have to either laborously decrypt them or ask in the forums and wait.

Please bring back Scourge for the kinetic missile variant.
Bent Barrel
#432 - 2012-03-01 23:28:10 UTC
Dark Drifter wrote:
Zainou 'Snapshot' Heavy Missiles HM-703.....


is still a mouthful

change to just acronyms so this one would be:

Zainou 'Snapshot' HM-703


after all any idiot can figure out the acronyms for skills


will not work always ... there are duplicates ... f.e.:

Evasive Maneuvering - EM - agility
Energy Management - EM - capacitor capacity
Adaahh Gee
Trust Doesn't Rust
Sev3rance
#433 - 2012-03-02 00:26:04 UTC
*Facepalm

More renaming?

After all the uproar and complaints from your existing paying customers, you want to rename more modules?

Do you ACTUALLY listen or is the voice of Sony in your ear more influential?

Why not remove ship spinning again? if you really want to wind us all up?

Do you not understand that by the standardization of naming, you are removing the immersion from the game.

NEWSFLASH! Immersion is what gets people logged on for 15 hours a day, it's what makes people tell their wife they can't go out that evening as there is a CTA scheduled, it is what makes Eve such an awesome game.

By dumbing down the game, you are really, genuinely alienating your core user base, and honestly, it will not attract new players, it will not make people who have a short attention span suddenly stay playing after their 14-day trial ends.

Please, please, please, Reconsider your streamlining, concentrate your efforts on some worthwhile UI improvements, Streamline the way roles are setup in corps so they are actually easy to understand, Add some more nice shiny ships, Tier 2 Destroyers with E-War bonus, make the Scythe and Bellicose actual useful ships in the way Blackbirds and Arbitrators are.

Finally, please understand that we love this game (Probably more than you do) and that we spend huge chunks of our lives dedicated to playing it (again, probably more than you do).
The playerbase of Eve is an enormous resource for you, you can use it to make genuine, useful improvements. Or, you can change names of things that don't need changing and have a bunch of people on a forum whining about it.
Ceptia Cyna
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#434 - 2012-03-02 00:38:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Ceptia Cyna
I support the name changes in general to make it more intutive to use items and their meta variations. This might help beginners while not cutting any gaming complexity.
Nevertheless i will miss they joy i had back in the days finding an 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher.

You should somehow, as mentioned before, rethink the naming and maybe come up with some different wordings.

cheers \o/

PS: Some players should start to get a life... very very sad but true.
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#435 - 2012-03-02 01:12:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Luba Cibre
In the past, i've searched for y-t8 if i want to find the best named cruiser sized mwd.
Now, i've to search for experimental and find a sh.it ton of stuff or i have to search for experimental 10mn what is ******* long to search.
In the future, if i'll search for experimental i'll find about 200 modules, thats stupid.

Just another example: The old names are like the diablo 2 item names, they're unique and cool, the new names are like the random generated green wow stuff "bracers of the eagle" or something like that ****.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 

l0rd carlos
New Order Outreach Division
CODE.
#436 - 2012-03-02 01:20:13 UTC  |  Edited by: l0rd carlos
Luba Cibre wrote:
In the past, i've searched for y-t8 if i want to find the best named cruiser sized mwd.
Now, i've to search for experimental and find a sh.it ton of stuff or i have to search for experimental 10mn what is ******* long to search.

Then just search for "10mn m" and you will get the list of all 10mn mwds, and that is freaking awsome.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos

Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#437 - 2012-03-02 01:39:54 UTC
l0rd carlos wrote:
Luba Cibre wrote:
In the past, i've searched for y-t8 if i want to find the best named cruiser sized mwd.
Now, i've to search for experimental and find a sh.it ton of stuff or i have to search for experimental 10mn what is ******* long to search.

Then just search for "10mn m" and you will get the list of all 10mn mwds, and that is freaking awsome.

but i don't want the complete list, i want one specific item.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 

Debir Achen
Makiriemi Holdings
#438 - 2012-03-02 03:00:21 UTC
I think "Scourge" has a special place because it is the ammunition used by drakes, and many of us have flown one at some point or other. There's not the same passion with the Cruise launchers, as none of the battleships are bonused to a specific type of ammo. You might get a similar effect if you renamed multifrequency or antimatter.

That said, I liked the flavour text associated with each missile name, and would much prefer the combined Scourge Kinetic Heavy Missile, which keeps the naming flavour (and unique name) and still completely defines the missile.

Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature?

Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#439 - 2012-03-02 03:00:43 UTC
CCP Gnauton wrote:
Hi guys,
(including tooltips or other UI solutions that might serve the same function better).

Thank you

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest

Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#440 - 2012-03-02 03:03:36 UTC
Debir Achen wrote:
I think "Scourge" has a special place because it is the ammunition used by drakes, and many of us have flown one at some point or other. There's not the same passion with the Cruise launchers, as none of the battleships are bonused to a specific type of ammo. You might get a similar effect if you renamed multifrequency or antimatter.

That said, I liked the flavour text associated with each missile name, and would much prefer the combined Scourge Kinetic Heavy Missile, which keeps the naming flavour (and unique name) and still completely defines the missile.

Yep - key parts of old names should remain in the new name if any renaming has to be done.
Roll the old missile names back and add the damage type to them with one extra word. People will spank you much less after that (including myself .)

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest