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New dev blog: What's in a name

First post First post
Author
Daedra Blue
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#361 - 2012-03-01 12:42:24 UTC
Implants Names changes are a great improvement.

Module Names suck due to the fact that not all items have all 1-4 metal levels in the game that is one thing.

The others is you are replacing unintuitive prefixes with a generalized unintuitive prefix.
In my opinion you are complicating things or merely half way solving the problem, generalization is good but why not just put MT1-MT4 in front or back of the already existing names this will keep the established names that have been around for years buy also add the Meta Level tag for quick reference.

Best place would be at the end of the name!

Why is this better?

- Names remain unchanged and this leaves you again with the freedom to come up with god knows what names.
- Meta level is there for quick reference.
- Old players are happy that they can keep the old habits while they get the improved meta tag.
- Both search by meta tag and normal old names remain simultaneously
- Old Killboards can e easily fixed/ Killmails can be fixed by simple queries.

- Resists should also keep they're name and could get a resist prefix besides the end Meta tag.
- This keeps old flavour but also adds the resist type: EM/KN/TH/EX/AD - Electro Magnetic/Kinetic/Thermal/Explosive/Adaptive
- This would create the generalization without removing the old established names.

All around focus on ADDING Value instead of Replacing VALUE.


What you did with the propulsion modules was quite bad now its harder then before to sort them.

Contrary to what you believe the prefixes you chose are too long and unintuitive. The shorter and the more direct the better.

Besides short suffixes also clears DB storage space in the long run and makes communication less hard on bandwidths, is a WIN-WIN-WIN situation ;)
Bent Barrel
#362 - 2012-03-01 12:46:00 UTC
Daedra Blue wrote:
Implants Names changes are a great improvement.

Module Names suck due to the fact that not all items have all 1-4 metal levels in the game that is one thing.

The others is you are replacing unintuitive prefixes with a generalized unintuitive prefix.
In my opinion you are complicating things or merely half way solving the problem, generalization is good but why not just put MT1-MT4 in front or back of the already existing names this will keep the established names that have been around for years buy also add the Meta Level tag for quick reference.

Best place would be at the end of the name!

Why is this better?

- Names remain unchanged and this leaves you again with the freedom to come up with god knows what names.
- Meta level is there for quick reference.
- Old players are happy that they can keep the old habits while they get the improved meta tag.
- Both search by meta tag and normal old names remain simultaneously
- Old Killboards can e easily fixed/ Killmails can be fixed by simple queries.

- Resists should also keep they're name and could get a resist prefix besides the end Meta tag.
- This keeps old flavour but also adds the resist type: EM/KN/TH/EX/AD - Electro Magnetic/Kinetic/Thermal/Explosive/Adaptive
- This would create the generalization without removing the old established names.

All around focus on ADDING Value instead of Replacing VALUE.


What you did with the propulsion modules was quite bad now its harder then before to sort them.

Contrary to what you believe the prefixes you chose are too long and unintuitive. The shorter and the more direct the better.

Besides short suffixes also clears DB storage space in the long run and makes communication less hard on bandwidths, is a WIN-WIN-WIN situation ;)


How about adding the meta level to the item icon ? Like we have the T2 designation (yellow corner), we can have another corner with the meta number .... problem solved, no need for renaming ....
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#363 - 2012-03-01 12:47:58 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
Noes, eventually RRT's will become 1600mm Prototype armour plates. :(

To be honest, the areas where these improvements will be most advantageous will be the armour hardeners and reflective plating; I can never remember whether the voltaic is better than the nanite.


A middle ground might be:

Meta 0 - plain old name
Meta 1 - plain old name + upgraded
Meta 2 - plain old name + improved
Meta 3 - the existing fancy names
Meta 4 - the existing fancy and unique and memorable names

Meta 0: Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I
Meta 1: Upgraded Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I
Meta 2: Improved Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I
Meta 3: Radioisotope Adaptive Nano Membrane I
Meta 4: N-Type Adaptive Nano Membrane I

For the younger players, this means that if they see "Upgraded" or "Improved" (or some other standard attribute) that they can just remember "oh, that's meta 1 or 2, slightly better then the base unit". The more flavorful names stick around for the version that matter (which are the Meta 3/4).


I like this. I like it a lot.

It's a good compromise between the cool stuff and the perceived need to fix a few bent nails with a sledgehammer.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#364 - 2012-03-01 13:05:28 UTC
Bent Barrel wrote:
Daedra Blue wrote:
snipped


How about adding the meta level to the item icon ? Like we have the T2 designation (yellow corner), we can have another corner with the meta number .... problem solved, no need for renaming ....


Don't treat renaming like it's some kind of monster you have to avoid at all cost. It's just a tool to improve and fix the faults and limitations of the current naming scheme. You're going to have to do some renaming anyway, since some of the old names aren't that well chosen and can cause problems.

As an example take my personal pet peeve, the shield hardener names. I've played the game for years, but if I fly an armor ship for a few times I can't search the hardeners by name anymore. It shouldn't be that hard to remember them. They are all shield hardeners, but you can't search them by those words. The whole group is a mix on barriers, fields, screens and matrixes, that you can't all get to show in any simple way. It's not a bad thing to give all of them some uniform designation, that allows you to easily remember them and get them all to show by a simple search word. If you're doing that anyway, you might as well be open minded and see what other improvements you could do.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#365 - 2012-03-01 13:16:51 UTC
Kaivix wrote:
I had a look on Sisi (I know anything on Sisi can change but meh ) they seem to just add the prefix on front of the name or if it's one of the renames they just replace the word

thus XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay is now the 'Experimental' XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay

the ZW-4100 Siege Missile Bay is now the 'Experimental' ZW-4100 Torpedo Launcher

I don't see how this is dumbing down or making the game more "bland".

but in case
CCP keep the above and don't do what you did with the MWD and AB.



This would work too. Keep the flavor text and add the unified description of the meta level. Maybe someone learned from the loss of the much loved YT-8?

Some time ago, someone, somewhere put a lot of effort into all those names and they do add a nice flavor to the game and there is a rhyme and/or reason to most of it. Sure "Anode" might mean meta 3 for some guns and meta 4 for others, and maybe *that* is something that could use fixing. But please don't yank all the nice names in favor of "Experimental Thingy" like you did with ABs and MWDs.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

pa3ot
Facebook Inc.
#366 - 2012-03-01 13:24:41 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
Noes, eventually RRT's will become 1600mm Prototype armour plates. :(

To be honest, the areas where these improvements will be most advantageous will be the armour hardeners and reflective plating; I can never remember whether the voltaic is better than the nanite.


A middle ground might be:

Meta 0 - plain old name
Meta 1 - plain old name + upgraded
Meta 2 - plain old name + improved
Meta 3 - the existing fancy names
Meta 4 - the existing fancy and unique and memorable names

Meta 0: Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I
Meta 1: Upgraded Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I
Meta 2: Improved Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I
Meta 3: Radioisotope Adaptive Nano Membrane I
Meta 4: N-Type Adaptive Nano Membrane I

For the younger players, this means that if they see "Upgraded" or "Improved" (or some other standard attribute) that they can just remember "oh, that's meta 1 or 2, slightly better then the base unit". The more flavorful names stick around for the version that matter (which are the Meta 3/4).


It's not so good, cause in this case we'll lost the modules like "Catalyzed Cold-gas Arcjet Thrusters" (as i remember it was meta 2)
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#367 - 2012-03-01 13:30:23 UTC
Niraia wrote:
Standard Forum Post


Non standard melons! Blink
Daedra Blue
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#368 - 2012-03-01 13:41:27 UTC
Bent Barrel wrote:


How about adding the meta level to the item icon ? Like we have the T2 designation (yellow corner), we can have another corner with the meta number .... problem solved, no need for renaming ....


Because you can not search for numbers in pictures....
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#369 - 2012-03-01 13:43:41 UTC
Erim Solfara wrote:
Devore Sekk wrote:
Dumgard wrote:
Erim Solfara wrote:
I just typed a sodding ESSAY, and the forum swallowed it. I'm disgruntled.

That's CCP's new "Intelligence Filter", for situations like these.

In order to stop people from making long forum posts which may show how poorly thought out the developer's changes are, CCP's forum now eliminates said posts with a vengeance.


I've learned to ctrl-a crtl-c a decade ago before trusting any significant chunk of text to the intertubes.


I usually do, didn't this time =/


1) Have Firefox
2) Install Lazarus plug in (saves anything as you type it and will restore it at a mouse click).
3) ...
4) Profit!
Daedra Blue
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#370 - 2012-03-01 13:50:27 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Erim Solfara wrote:
Devore Sekk wrote:
Dumgard wrote:
Erim Solfara wrote:
I just typed a sodding ESSAY, and the forum swallowed it. I'm disgruntled.

That's CCP's new "Intelligence Filter", for situations like these.

In order to stop people from making long forum posts which may show how poorly thought out the developer's changes are, CCP's forum now eliminates said posts with a vengeance.


I've learned to ctrl-a crtl-c a decade ago before trusting any significant chunk of text to the intertubes.


I usually do, didn't this time =/


1) Have Firefox
2) Install Lazarus plug in (saves anything as you type it and will restore it at a mouse click).
3) ...
4) Profit!



Had to post mine twice too, Ctrl+a -> Ctrl+c, never trust the intertubes to always get it right.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#371 - 2012-03-01 13:53:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
I have this genius "I took 3 seconds" idea to actually help newbies for real.

1) Newbie wants his new afterburner

2) He opens market window where there's one innovative element: "show only usable" (like almost every 2003+ other MMO does).

3) He clicks said checkbox.

4) Searching for "afterburner" or expanding the corresponding category in the tree view will only show what he can use. Optionally, add an ORDER BY META_LEVEL clause in the returned items.

Done. No pixels will be harmed in the process.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#372 - 2012-03-01 13:57:12 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I have this genius "I took 3 seconds" idea to actually help newbies for real.

1) Newbie wants his new afterburner

2) He opens market window where there's one innovative element: "show only usable" (like almost every 2003+ other MMO does).

3) He clicks said checkbox.

4) Searching for "afterburner" or expanding the corresponding category in the tree view will only show what he can use. Optionally, add an ORDER BY META_LEVEL clause in the returned items.

Done. No pixels will be harmed in the process.


While it's not on the same screen, it is in the settings for the market.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Azrin Stella Oerndotte
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#373 - 2012-03-01 13:58:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Azrin Stella Oerndotte
If you have to simplify meta levels, just add the new naming as a prefix, for example:

Upgraded 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I
Limited 'Limos' Cruise Launcher I
Experimental XT-9000 Launcher I
Prototype 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I

Of course, some weapons already have "Prototype" in their names,:

1400mm Prototype Siege Cannon
425mm Prototype Gauss Cannon

Just keep that format.

Or is this what you are already planning?

Edit: Just saw that this had already been suggested Smile
Debir Achen
Makiriemi Holdings
#374 - 2012-03-01 14:12:17 UTC
Darth Felin wrote:
Interesting change

but Light Missile Launcher and Light Missile Array are still confusing maybe it is better to rename them to Light Missile Launcher and Rapid Light Missile Launcher?
Or Barrage Light Missile Launcher? Doesn't quite work for me, but I'm tossing it out there in the hope someone can refine it.

(And I'm hoping that some-day soon we'll get an equivalent for Battleships that fires heavy missiles)

Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature?

DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#375 - 2012-03-01 14:16:13 UTC  |  Edited by: DJ P0N-3
I too would like to see [new prefix] [old name] for meta levels. Seeing meta levels at a glance makes my life easier at times, but the fancy meta names are fun and retaining them will a) keep a lot of out of game resources still reasonably current and b) save a lot of bittervets the confusion and forumrage recently caused by the missile/prop mod rename. I have always been sad in my heart of hearts that T2 modules have such plain names compared to meta mods.

Also, if you are re-examining missile names, registering desire for just putting the damage type into the old name instead of using a blanket name for damage type across all missile types. Flavor and function!
Xyrcaryn
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#376 - 2012-03-01 14:18:16 UTC
Oh great, now I have to learn all module names againEvil
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#377 - 2012-03-01 14:22:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Quote:
Meta Level 1: Upgraded

Meta Level 2: Limited

Meta Level 3: Experimental

Meta Level 4: Prototype


Reporting cultural issue:

To my non-English speaking ear, "Limited" sounds completely inferior to "Upgraded".

Why do a I want a "limited" effect rather than the "whole" one? And since when something that is not even full or complete is better than something "upgraded"?

I personally do know enough English to know that "limited" also means "non-standard", but I assure you that this is not what will think a non-english speaking player reading that some implant is "limited" vs an "upgraded" one.

It would be way clearer this way:

Meta Level 1: Standard

Meta Level 2: Improved

Meta Level 3: Experimental

Meta Level 4: Prototype


And it would make all sense in the world this way:

Meta Level 1: Standard

Meta Level 2: Improved

Meta Level 3: Elite

Meta Level 4: Experimental


Why? Because prototypes are clumsy and prone to break down = inferior stuff. It took long unitl I read the stats of "protoype" weapons to learn that they are actually better than the Meta 1. Lol


But hey! Don't take my word for it! Just ask your players who don't speak English as a first or second language!
Alec Freeman
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#378 - 2012-03-01 14:28:41 UTC
What the **** is this ****!?!?

Seriously. Stop changing things that sent broken. The meta names are only confusing for like the first week of playing and the add depth too the game. You are also screwing over your existing fanbase by forcing them too learn entirely new terms. I truly hope someone at ccp comes too their senses and puts a stop too this.
Bent Barrel
#379 - 2012-03-01 14:42:09 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Bent Barrel wrote:
Daedra Blue wrote:
snipped


How about adding the meta level to the item icon ? Like we have the T2 designation (yellow corner), we can have another corner with the meta number .... problem solved, no need for renaming ....


Don't treat renaming like it's some kind of monster you have to avoid at all cost. It's just a tool to improve and fix the faults and limitations of the current naming scheme. You're going to have to do some renaming anyway, since some of the old names aren't that well chosen and can cause problems.

As an example take my personal pet peeve, the shield hardener names. I've played the game for years, but if I fly an armor ship for a few times I can't search the hardeners by name anymore. It shouldn't be that hard to remember them. They are all shield hardeners, but you can't search them by those words. The whole group is a mix on barriers, fields, screens and matrixes, that you can't all get to show in any simple way. It's not a bad thing to give all of them some uniform designation, that allows you to easily remember them and get them all to show by a simple search word. If you're doing that anyway, you might as well be open minded and see what other improvements you could do.


How about we change the ship names ?

Gallente cruiser
Upgraded Gallente cruiser
Limited Gallente cruiser
Experimental Gallente cruiser

Or how about ammo ?

Small hybrid charge
Upgraded small hybrid charge
Limited small hybrid charge
Experimental small hybrid charge
Prototype small hybrid charge

Still looks good ? After all there's nothing in the ammo name that has any correlation to it's attributes.

Hey how about "Small kinetic/thermal/explosive projectile charge" ?
Jenn Makanen
Doomheim
#380 - 2012-03-01 14:44:24 UTC
Alec Freeman wrote:
The meta names are only confusing for like the first week of playing and the add depth too the game.

You are also screwing over your existing fanbase by forcing them too learn entirely new terms


Well, given that the changes are to a consistent scheme, it should be far less than one week for the existing not to be confused.

Personally, I don't understand the sheer volume of the whining on this. Do people really think about their afterburners other than 'I'll go for the best' and 'I'll turn it on'?

I could /almost/ understand things like missiles. Almost.

Ugh