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PI taxes out of control?
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Dragonfel
Magitek Consortium
#1 - 2012-02-29 04:16:11 UTC
I took a long break from eve last September for college and just came back. I went to the 0.6 system I left my PI stuff in and was shocked to see how massive the importing and exporting taxes are now. In august, I was paying between 1k and 10k to export goods depending on volume... now I'm between 100k and 1.5mil per transaction. What happened?

Assuming this is some change I missed in the patch notes, this has some severe implications on profitability of making the refined commodity I had chosen. Is there a way to reduce this tax via a new skill or something?

If this is some sort of new and unavoidable re-balancing to the PI system, has the general profitability of PI been "nerfed"? Are more people leaning towards All-In-One planets that can produce a third tier commodity with native materials to reduce import/export fees?
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-02-29 04:21:26 UTC
If you ca get into a system where the players control the customs offices you maybe be able to get lower taxes. Such as if you are in an alliance that controls a system, but chances are they are going to charge you more in taxes.


Its sill very profitable, its just not ******** crazy way too much isk profitable.
Ajita al Tchar
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-02-29 04:54:06 UTC
Dragonfel wrote:
I took a long break from eve last September for college and just came back. I went to the 0.6 system I left my PI stuff in and was shocked to see how massive the importing and exporting taxes are now. In august, I was paying between 1k and 10k to export goods depending on volume... now I'm between 100k and 1.5mil per transaction. What happened?

Assuming this is some change I missed in the patch notes, this has some severe implications on profitability of making the refined commodity I had chosen. Is there a way to reduce this tax via a new skill or something?

If this is some sort of new and unavoidable re-balancing to the PI system, has the general profitability of PI been "nerfed"? Are more people leaning towards All-In-One planets that can produce a third tier commodity with native materials to reduce import/export fees?


You did miss something pretty important in patch notes: player-owned customs offices. Basically, all high sec customs offices are now owned by CONCORD and tax users at 10% of the value of the stuff they are exporting. There's nothing you can do about taxes at those CO's, nothing will change them. In not high sec, all customs offices went over to ownership by Interbus that taxes at 17%, but those CO's can be destroyed and replaced with player-owned CO's where the owner can set the tax rate however they wish based on standings, corp affiliation, etc. So, basically, if you're doing high sec PI you're paying 10% tax. If you don't want to pay the tax, look for alternatives like low sec CO's with lower tax rates, or not doing PI Big smile Really, it's not that bad, just don't make stuff that's not profitable. That still leaves you with many options for what to make.

Yeah, it's a nerf to high sec AFK PI profits, a buff to gameplay in some ways as people now have more ways to "interact" with others by shooting their stuff.
Dragonfel
Magitek Consortium
#4 - 2012-02-29 04:58:44 UTC
Thanks for the help guys.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#5 - 2012-02-29 11:44:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
You'll also find low-sec systems where the tax rate's been bumped to higher than 17%. With the higher rate of extraction, it can still be worth using them, rather than high-sec. Not for factory planets, of course. You're paying more for each unit, but you have a far higher number of units to sell.



As for the change to taxes, 2 things happened:
1: The tax rate was doubled in high-sec (to 10%. and changed to 17% outside of highsec, but POCOs could change it)
2: The value of the goods was rebased to the actual market value (on average. kinda).

Value that will be taxed on:
Advanced Commodities: 1,350,000.00 ISK
Specialized Commodities: 70,000.00 ISK
Refined Commodities: 9,000.00 ISK
Basic commodities: 500.00 ISK
Planet Resources: 5,00 ISK

So, Oxygen (basic commodity. base value of 500 a unit) will cost 50isk to export a unit in highsec. Or 25 to import.


Extraction will pretty much still be pure profit. If you're importing stuff, processing and exporting, you'll have to run your numbers again.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#6 - 2012-02-29 12:25:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Since the Goons take over pretty much every planet in Low and Null, it was just another way for CCP to put easy RISK FREE ISK into the hands of the Goons and NullBears YET AGAIN.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Golan Snyder
Interstellar Construct Union
#7 - 2012-03-02 06:19:42 UTC
I still don't understand why they are custom offices in w-space. There used to be an option where you can just launch your material into orbit to simply scoop up. I miss that option.
Sola Mercury
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-03-02 09:13:18 UTC
Golan Snyder wrote:
I still don't understand why they are custom offices in w-space. There used to be an option where you can just launch your material into orbit to simply scoop up. I miss that option.


You can launch 500m*m*m from your command center paying 15% tax. You'll need to move the goods to CC first, this transfer has a cooldown, which depends on the link-capacity of the link connecting the CC.

I only use CC-launches on one caracter who is doing Ninja PI in hostile W-space.
Salcon Cliff
Zephyr Corp
#9 - 2012-03-02 14:17:25 UTC
Quote:
I still don't understand why they are custom offices in w-space.

'Cause we built em Big smile.

Seriously, though, CCP was going to have the w-space COs 'poof' with the new patch, but I think they figured out that PI was too dependent on those planets and that the volume of PI goods would be suddenly and catastrophically impacted.

Just as an update to our POCO installations:
We replaced 8 POCOs in our w-space system at an approximate cost of (125m x 8) 1 billion isk. We are 'deep' w-space, so no hi sec connections, making them a wee bit safer. Tax rate is set at 5%. It has now been one month, and on my factory planet I have paid a total corp tax of 29.6 mil isk and saved 88.3 mil isk compared to the old Interbus tax rate (8.5% in, 17% out). That is a total savings (between player and corp) of 117.9 mil. So, for ONE PLAYER, a factory planet POCO can pay for itself in just over a month.

Our worst extraction planet made/saved 21.4 mil per player. The rest are somewhere in between, but factory planets are by far the best revenue (duh!). In any case, with 2 very active PI pilots and 2 not so active PI pilots, our POCOs will be totally paid for in three months, give or take.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#10 - 2012-03-02 18:47:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
already covered sorry.
Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
#11 - 2012-03-04 19:45:27 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Since the Goons take over pretty much every planet in Low and Null, it was just another way for CCP to put easy RISK FREE ISK into the hands of the Goons and NullBears YET AGAIN.

This is just wrong.

Every planet I have seen in lowsec is owned by lowsec people. AND by people who actually live in the area.

Lowsec PI is working as intended.

I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544
Craterius
Symple Onez
#12 - 2012-03-05 04:51:15 UTC
Taxes are much higher than they look. Most refined commodities do not sell for 9,000 isk, at least, not at Jita.

I was just taxed on a transfer of refined commodities, in losec, at "17%". The best buy price in Jita, however, was 3750 isk. The tax rate turned out to be nearly 50%.

The tax rate is clearly meant to be punitive. Perhaps CCP regrets its first try at a PI mechanic, and wants to discourage the use of the first mechanic?

PI is already frustrating enough, with the constant click-a-thon. It really cannot take too much more strain. I wonder what CCP has in mind down the line? Are we supposed to defend this annoying game mechanic under attack by 13 year olds invading EvE thru the Sony Playstation? I can hardly wait.
Tarsus Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-03-05 05:02:25 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Since the Goons take over pretty much every planet in Low and Null, it was just another way for CCP to put easy RISK FREE ISK into the hands of the Goons and NullBears YET AGAIN.


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You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#14 - 2012-03-05 10:47:43 UTC
Craterius wrote:
Taxes are much higher than they look. Most refined commodities do not sell for 9,000 isk, at least, not at Jita.

I was just taxed on a transfer of refined commodities, in losec, at "17%". The best buy price in Jita, however, was 3750 isk. The tax rate turned out to be nearly 50%.

The tax rate is clearly meant to be punitive. Perhaps CCP regrets its first try at a PI mechanic, and wants to discourage the use of the first mechanic?

PI is already frustrating enough, with the constant click-a-thon. It really cannot take too much more strain. I wonder what CCP has in mind down the line? Are we supposed to defend this annoying game mechanic under attack by 13 year olds invading EvE thru the Sony Playstation? I can hardly wait.



Or perhaps people should stop making products with a marginal profit, reducing the supply, and pushing the price up to that 9000 isk, so you stop paying the '50%' tax rate?

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Moira Kali
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-03-05 10:59:31 UTC
Craterius wrote:
Taxes are much higher than they look. Most refined commodities do not sell for 9,000 isk, at least, not at Jita.

I was just taxed on a transfer of refined commodities, in losec, at "17%". The best buy price in Jita, however, was 3750 isk. The tax rate turned out to be nearly 50%.


I'm looking at this exactly same situation.

Just came back from a 10 monts break to find out that I will have to pay close to 50% of the final product in taxes if I continue with my current production setup.

I was working with 5 planets in low sec, 4 planets producing Refined Commodities and 1 as an industrial plant for Specialized commodities.

Not worth all the clicking and hauling. Just gonna chill and see if things change.