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Amarr Frigates for PvP beginner! (Questions within)
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Eve Terrorist
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-02-29 03:02:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Terrorist
Hello everyone. So I've been training up to fly frigates for the past couple of months. I'm a tad over 5 mil sp and I've decided it's now time to hit lowsec and start looking for fights. Now, I'm only an Amarr pilot at the moment, though I have plans on cross training into Minmatar and Caldari. I'm also only looking to fly Frigates and maybe destroyers once I have more support skills trained.

I have some questions for you darling people in this here forum secion. What, if any, would be your choices to fly of the Amarr ships. At the moment I can only fly frigates and assault frigates. I'm linking my skills here just so you all can see where I'm at in my training. I'm working on lasers at the moment though I also plan on working on rockets so I can fly the Amarr assault frigate that uses them.

Thank you all for reading this and thank you even more if you reply with advice!

eveboard.com/pilot/eve_terrorist
Andrea Griffin
#2 - 2012-02-29 03:27:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Griffin
The Punisher is unfortunate in that it only has two mid slots and is a bit slow, and any ship with a web will be able to disengage at will. It isn't that you CAN'T PvP with it, you're just going to have more limited success than with, say, a Merlin or Rifter.

The Vengeance is wonderful, but you'll need to improve your missile support skills and get T2 launchers for the specialization damage bonus. There's lots of different ways to fit it and it has damage selection on top of it all. It is a very solid ship.

I haven't flown the new Retribution, so I can't really comment on that one, but I have seen them from time to time now so someone seems to like them. Similar to the Retribution but more popular is the Navy Slicer. It's faster and seems quite happy with its two mid slots.

The problem is that of the 4 frigates I mentioned, the cheap one (and you want to fly cheap at first - you're going to die a lot, especially when you start) isn't all that great a ship. But, might as well fly what you can. Grab a stack of Punishers, fly out there, and see what will engage you (most things will). You'll learn stuff. If you can start winning fights in a Punisher then you'll do quite well in other hulls.

Autocannons instead of lasers on a Punisher isn't unheard of by the way.

Once you cross train into Caldari and Minmatar, make sure to check out the Rifter and the Merlin. They're both quite good.

If you want a little extra variety in what you fly once you have some experience, train up Interceptors and grab a few Crusaders and Maledictions. Won't take long to get Interceptors up to level 4. If you're one of those people that likes to fly uncommon ships, consider training EAF to 5 and grabbing a Sentinel. They're fun. : >

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
Ahrieman
Codex Praedonum
Divine Damnation
#3 - 2012-02-29 03:40:39 UTC
Punisher packs a solid tank though. It's not a bad ship, it's just hard to keep a skilled pilot in a rifter/merlin/incursus tackled long enough to kill them. I would recommend flying them until you get the basics of pvp down.

You should focus on improving your core combat skills: gunnery, navigation, and mechanic (for Amarr). This assumes you will be focused on laser skills before trying to add missile skills.

My advice is this: once you think you have the hang of the punisher, train destroyers up and try a coercer. It does face melting dps and is a great ship. Most Coercer pilots I know opt to go for an MWD in the mids and just melt frigs while they are trying to align out.

Both Amarr ceptors are good and can be used solo. Slicer is a VERY popular Amarr frig, but to be a good slicer pilot, you will need practice and might want to hold off just a bit since the tank (or lack of one) is paper thin. Good nav skills really are a must for a slicer along with the player skill aspect. Without them, you could just end up losing lots of slicers to AB rifters. Amarr AF's are good. Vengeance tanks like a boss and Retribution can do conventional and ******** fittings well.

Solo Rifter since 2009
Eve Terrorist
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-02-29 03:49:18 UTC
Andrea Griffin wrote:
If you want a little extra variety in what you fly once you have some experience, train up Interceptors and grab a few Crusaders and Maledictions. Won't take long to get Interceptors up to level 4. If you're one of those people that likes to fly uncommon ships, consider training EAF to 5 and grabbing a Sentinel. They're fun. : >


The Sentinel is my next goal to be able to fly! I love it though I will need to train more engineering and a ton of drone skills. :( They are all on the map though! I'm using EveMon to plan out the skills I'm training. As soon as I get the spec skilsl trained for lasers then I plan on training the support skills to five. After that, rocketrs to 5 for spec and then the missile support skils to five. Then on to armor, engineering, and drones! Shew... a long way to go.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#5 - 2012-02-29 14:13:07 UTC
From my experience as Minmatar Faction Warrior I would say that the Navy Slicer is the most deadly enemy you have to face, especially the nanoed ones. MWD-Nano Slicers are damn agile and fast, they are great because they can stay outside the scram/web range which allows you to run if necessary and they do a hell of DPS. In short, the slicer is the perfect ship if you love the Minmatar Strategy: go in, kill and go out before the enemy cavelery arrives. Which is somehome ironic since it is an Amarr ship. Especially pods and weakly tanked frigates find often a fast death if they do not pay attention to the Slicer.

On the down side you naturally have to notice that a nanoed Slicer has not much tank, which means it pops fast if something gets a grip on you or if you do not pay attention to snipers. Therefore you need a lot of experience and manual piloting to bring the Slicer to its full potential...
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#6 - 2012-02-29 14:20:53 UTC
The best amarr frigate is the Rifter.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-02-29 14:26:01 UTC
Stick a 10MN Afterburner on the punisher

No Worries
Eve Terrorist
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-03-01 01:14:29 UTC
Luba Cibre wrote:
The best amarr frigate is the Rifter.


I'm a bit confused by this as the rifter is Minmatar. Are you just mistaken or are you trolling? I now I've noticed a lot of trolling in some of the forums and also a lot of bitter folks.

Regardless of which of these it might be, I would like to stick with Amarr frigates for the time being so thank you for your suggestion!
Eve Terrorist
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-03-01 01:15:39 UTC
ChromeStriker wrote:
Stick a 10MN Afterburner on the punisher


Do you have a suggested fet to go alone with a 10mn Afterburner? And why would I stick an oversized Afterburner on the Punisher when it takes up so much of the resources?
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-03-01 01:36:13 UTC
Eve Terrorist wrote:
Luba Cibre wrote:
The best amarr frigate is the Rifter.


I'm a bit confused by this as the rifter is Minmatar. Are you just mistaken or are you trolling? I now I've noticed a lot of trolling in some of the forums and also a lot of bitter folks.

Regardless of which of these it might be, I would like to stick with Amarr frigates for the time being so thank you for your suggestion!


What he means is that you should stop training useless Amarr skills and focus on Winmatar if you want to PvP.
Eve Terrorist
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-03-01 01:38:19 UTC
Voith wrote:
What he means is that you should stop training useless Amarr skills and focus on Winmatar if you want to PvP.


Ah, I see. I understand the concept of FOTM as I see it in LoL a lot. However, I like to play what I want to play based less on FOTM and more on what looks like it will be fun to play. So, while I apreciate the suggestions, I would also apreciate it we could keep it to Amarr.

Thank you!
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#12 - 2012-03-01 02:19:18 UTC
Voith wrote:
What he means is that you should stop training useless Amarr skills and focus on Winmatar if you want to PvP.

I don't like that, but it's true. :|

Eve Terrorist wrote:

Ah, I see. I understand the concept of FOTM as I see it in LoL a lot. However, I like to play what I want to play based less on FOTM and more on what looks like it will be fun to play. So, while I apreciate the suggestions, I would also apreciate it we could keep it to Amarr.

Thank you!

If you've access to T2 Frigates, fly a Vengeance or Malediction.
If you're looking for some "deep nullsec solo ganks" aka killing helpless ratters, fly a Purifier.
If you want to fly T1 Frigs, stick to the Punisher. I haven't tried the Inquisitor, but it's the only one (except for the Punisher) that has a proper slot layout.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-03-01 02:22:15 UTC
Eve Terrorist wrote:
Voith wrote:
What he means is that you should stop training useless Amarr skills and focus on Winmatar if you want to PvP.


Ah, I see. I understand the concept of FOTM as I see it in LoL a lot. However, I like to play what I want to play based less on FOTM and more on what looks like it will be fun to play. So, while I apreciate the suggestions, I would also apreciate it we could keep it to Amarr.

Thank you!

Minmatar isn't FOTM. It has been the "flavor" for over half a decade. At this point it is just a fact. Minmatar is the best race for PvP.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#14 - 2012-03-01 02:29:18 UTC
Voith wrote:

Minmatar isn't FOTM. It has been the "flavor" for over half a decade. At this point it is just a fact. Minmatar is the best race for PvP.


No it isn't, and the Rifter is most certainly not the best T1 frigate these days.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Eve Terrorist
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-03-01 02:34:31 UTC
Voith wrote:
Minmatar isn't FOTM. It has been the "flavor" for over half a decade. At this point it is just a fact. Minmatar is the best race for PvP.


*sigh* OK, this will be my last response to this line of conversation. I realize that Minmatar may be the "best" race to fly for PvP. However, at the onset of this post I asked for the best Amarr frigate to fly based on my skillset. That being T1 frigates and Assault Frigates. I would aprecaite it if you kept your off comments and advice in line with the questions asked. If not, feel free to post your information on Minmatar ships in the massive amounts of Minmatar threads that i've read spanning every area of these forums.

I am only looking for information and advice on the Amarr race. Not advice telling me not to fly the race that I've started off with. Regardless of if it is a bad choice as a PvP race, it's my choice and I plan to stick with it for the time being.

Thank you! :D
Eve Terrorist
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-03-01 02:35:48 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
No it isn't, and the Rifter is most certainly not the best T1 frigate these days.

-Liang


Are there any Amarr ships among those that might beat out this "omgbestshiparoundbecauseitsMinmatar" rifter?

Thank you! =)
Dorian Tormak
RBON United
#17 - 2012-03-01 03:07:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Dorian Tormak
Well Eve Terrorist the Punisher can be pretty evenly matched against a Rifter - and for a long time in 2010 / 2011 I recall people considering it the second best Tech I frigate, though TBH I wouldn't consider it to be "anti-Rifter"... I'm not really a fan of the two mid-slots on the Punisher {you can kind of cheat by using a Neutralizer which can act as a web by shutting down enemy Afterburners} but I had some pretty decent success with it a while back using a Medium Pulse laser with Scorch setup with Tracking Enhancers, staying outside of web range and flying it like a Slicer. Unfortunately I'd say the Punisher is the weakest of the Tech I "combat" frigate, but it's still useful.

Also, the Crusader is a bit better than the Claw {same or more tank / DPS and better range}, the Slicer is better than the Firetail {by far}, and the Vengeance / Retribution are pretty damn competitive within their class. The Malediction is also one of the better Interceptors - especially for 1v1s. It's like a super fast Vengeance.

The Sentinel is also the best Electronic Attack Frigate - basically the only one regularly used in PvP.

As well, the Ceorcer destroyer has a pretty ridiculous tank / DPS / tracking / range ratio.

The Amarr are far from frigate-challenged.

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#18 - 2012-03-01 03:12:22 UTC
Eve Terrorist wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
No it isn't, and the Rifter is most certainly not the best T1 frigate these days.

-Liang


Are there any Amarr ships among those that might beat out this "omgbestshiparoundbecauseitsMinmatar" rifter?

Thank you! =)


I think just about everyone agrees that Amarr T2 frigs are pretty pro, but your T1 options are the Punisher, Crucifier, and Slicer:
- The Punisher has a great tank and is a fantastic heavy tackler in a gang - though its combination of DPS and speed is just not that effective against other frigates (because they don't stick around long enough to die).
- The Crucifier's a lower tier ewar frigate with all of the baggage that entails. I wouldn't be terribly surprised to hear about a Crucifier solo killing any turret ship it can break passive shield recharge on. Frigate duels in a Crucifier will require very high personal skills but will result in absolutely hilarious killmails. On the flip side, its freaking deadly in gangs - people laughing are silly.
- The Slicer costs more than vanilla T1 options (from any race), but it definitely vies for the title King Of All Frigates - and that includes the T2 and pirate varieties. I have very little negative to say about it.

Really, my comment was meant to point out that the Merlin, Incursus, and even Tristan are extremely powerful ships these days. Hell - since the rocket buff a Kestrel is pretty nice too.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Eve Terrorist
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-03-01 04:22:01 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:

I think just about everyone agrees that Amarr T2 frigs are pretty pro, but your T1 options are the Punisher, Crucifier, and Slicer:
- The Punisher has a great tank and is a fantastic heavy tackler in a gang - though its combination of DPS and speed is just not that effective against other frigates (because they don't stick around long enough to die).
- The Crucifier's a lower tier ewar frigate with all of the baggage that entails. I wouldn't be terribly surprised to hear about a Crucifier solo killing any turret ship it can break passive shield recharge on. Frigate duels in a Crucifier will require very high personal skills but will result in absolutely hilarious killmails. On the flip side, its freaking deadly in gangs - people laughing are silly.
- The Slicer costs more than vanilla T1 options (from any race), but it definitely vies for the title King Of All Frigates - and that includes the T2 and pirate varieties. I have very little negative to say about it.

Really, my comment was meant to point out that the Merlin, Incursus, and even Tristan are extremely powerful ships these days. Hell - since the rocket buff a Kestrel is pretty nice too.

-Liang


Thank you for all of that information. I was mainly focusing on looking at the Punisher for my T1 starter. However, I'm now going to take a closer look at the Crucifier too. I'm fascinated with the different types of ewar in the game. I must admit to a bit of confusion on the Amarr tracking disruptors and how effective they are in combat. I'm guessing that a bit of google searching is in order for that. I was also curious about the Inquisitor but I've yet to find any positive reviews of it.

Thank you! "D
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#20 - 2012-03-01 04:38:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Mechael
Eve Terrorist wrote:
Thank you for all of that information. I was mainly focusing on looking at the Punisher for my T1 starter. However, I'm now going to take a closer look at the Crucifier too. I'm fascinated with the different types of ewar in the game. I must admit to a bit of confusion on the Amarr tracking disruptors and how effective they are in combat. I'm guessing that a bit of google searching is in order for that. I was also curious about the Inquisitor but I've yet to find any positive reviews of it.

Thank you! "D


http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Turret_damage

Check that link for information about how turret accuracy works in EVE. Tracking disruptors will screw up the "tracking speed" bit of that formula, making it very difficult for turrets to accurately hit anything that's moving. Be warned that it won't have any effect on missiles.

The Inquisitor is a damage boat, pure and simple. It's not really designed to survive being hit at all, but it will kill things. I recommend using rockets with lots of ballistic control units (missile weapon upgrades.) Rigging it for even more missile damage can be a good thing, too, if you've got the ISK for rigs. Make sure to fit an MWD or Afterburner to get up close and personal, and then unleash your fiery doom rockets for a decent damage output. The damage that you do is crucial with that ship, so I wouldn't try it until you've got respectable damage dealing skills.

The Punisher is definitely the most forgiving tech 1 Amarr frigate to fly, as it can actually tank pretty well. Any errors you make while piloting won't cost you quite as much as they would with a more fragile ship.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
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