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What makes a good CSM7 candidate

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Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-02-29 07:06:06 UTC
A good CSM candidate is a person who pursues changes that are best for the game as a whole and not what is simply best for themselves/corporation/alliance/coalition.
Delici Feelgood
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-02-29 07:16:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Delici Feelgood
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:
Quote:


It's not rocket science no, but where have I said or does it say the Mittani own exclusive rights on negociation, where does it say that I think other candidates as being impotent or not showing suffcient capabilities to do this. This is not the exclusive right or unique skill set of the Mitttani. But its seems he wants the copyright to this in his campaign it seems. Blink


Where do I say Mittani is the entire CSM? I'm saying the entire CSM works together to create a consensus. You're putting words in my mouth to justify your goon paranoia, you stupid mewing pubbie.


lol. Interesting and yet it was you who was marginalising people into distinct catagories about this subject as being incapable or impotent. However, I will accept that you agree with the point on mutual capabilities now.


Quote:
Quote:

As such I see it that you have a view that being mature enough to consider other players and their interests as a weakness to progression, whereas I see it as a strength. Selfish interests will likley end up with certain areas of the game having a represented bias of importance and as such will neglet others. Whereas showing sufficient accomodation for numerous interests and solutions that doesn't exclude anyone from a design point will help EvE overall.


If anything simply going for the easy selfish option rather than thinking things through with the big picture in mind for me takes more capabilties, design standards, commitment to everyone and shows a much better level of intellectual capacity. This is of course before we start talking about using political power in the wrong way as a meta-weapon for winning EvE.



This has nothing to do with maturity. This has everything to do with you wanting representation for your viewpoint without doing any work, and it isn't going to happen no matter how much you whine or try to spin it.


I'm sorry you see things that way also that you don't regard player participation and involvement as vital to the process as if we don't do any work, why is there even a submissions forum for the CSM then? I'm sorry that you can't see that the big picture would actually help EvE. Thanks for confirming the stance however and how umutable you are on the matter however. From my perspective this stubborn beligerant behaviour only works further to make the Mittani an undesirable candidate.
Sidus Sarmiang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-02-29 07:32:50 UTC
Delici Feelgood wrote:
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:
Quote:


It's not rocket science no, but where have I said or does it say the Mittani own exclusive rights on negociation, where does it say that I think other candidates as being impotent or not showing suffcient capabilities to do this. This is not the exclusive right or unique skill set of the Mitttani. But its seems he wants the copyright to this in his campaign it seems. Blink


Where do I say Mittani is the entire CSM? I'm saying the entire CSM works together to create a consensus. You're putting words in my mouth to justify your goon paranoia, you stupid mewing pubbie.


lol. Interesting and yet it was you who was marginalising people into distinct catagories about this subject as being incapable or impotent. However, I will accept that you agree with the point on mutual capabilities now.


Quote:
Quote:

As such I see it that you have a view that being mature enough to consider other players and their interests as a weakness to progression, whereas I see it as a strength. Selfish interests will likley end up with certain areas of the game having a represented bias of importance and as such will neglet others. Whereas showing sufficient accomodation for numerous interests and solutions that doesn't exclude anyone from a design point will help EvE overall.


If anything simply going for the easy selfish option rather than thinking things through with the big picture in mind for me takes more capabilties, design standards, commitment to everyone and shows a much better level of intellectual capacity. This is of course before we start talking about using political power in the wrong way as a meta-weapon for winning EvE.



This has nothing to do with maturity. This has everything to do with you wanting representation for your viewpoint without doing any work, and it isn't going to happen no matter how much you whine or try to spin it.


I'm sorry you see things that way also that you don't regard player participation and involvement as vital to the process as if we don't do any work, why is there even a submissions forum for the CSM then? I'm sorry that you can't see that the big picture would actually help EvE. Thanks for confirming the stance however and how umutable you are on the matter however. From my perspective this stubborn beligerant behaviour only works further to make the Mittani an undesirable candidate.



I guess I'll just have to inform him he's lost the idiot vote.
Delici Feelgood
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-02-29 07:42:08 UTC
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:
I guess I'll just have to inform him he's lost the idiot vote.


How so? you only just stated you'd be giving him your vote. Blink
Sidus Sarmiang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-02-29 07:48:08 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
A good CSM candidate is a person who pursues changes that are best for the game as a whole and not what is simply best for themselves/corporation/alliance/coalition.



I guess I tend to think of a good candidate as also being an effective one. Changes that're good for the game as a whole are the best ones, but a lot of folks have good ideas. The ones that can actually get them implemented are the rare ones, and that relies primarily on effective communication, an ability to set realistic goals, and an understanding of how the CSM actually functions. The point I've really tried to make is that these skills should be considered alongside the goals of the candidate when selecting one.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#26 - 2012-02-29 08:08:33 UTC
Triskian wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Seleene wrote:
Andski wrote:
explain the obvious "selfish" interests that the chairman has demonstrated


The bastard eats all the bacon. Evil


Unlike the cruel and selfish Mittani, If elected I promise I will share all the bacon with my fellow councilmen!!


What kind of hippy are you? He who gets to the buffet first, gets the bacon.


No no, if elected, I will be bringing the bacon!

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#27 - 2012-02-29 08:52:44 UTC
The Mittani is a good example, CSM candidate dosn't has to represent nothing with his person, he just need a lot of minions to vote on him thats how "democracy" works.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Sidus Sarmiang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-02-29 10:00:52 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
CSM candidate dosn't has to represent nothing with his person.



What.
Snow Ogre Dude
Paladin Noesis
#29 - 2012-02-29 22:04:01 UTC
AM FINKS IS GUDS TALKS BOUTS CSMS. CLEVER WOMANS MAY HAS GUDS POINT BOUT STUFFS.

GOONS PEEPS SHOUTS BOUT HOW EM MITTENS DIDS LOTS GUD STUFF FER PEEPS AND THEN SAYS IS ALL O EM. AND EM CLAIMS ALL GUDS THINGS IS DOWN TO EM.

BUT IF READS TALKY MINS PRIOR TO CRUCIBALS AINT ANY MENTIONS IN THERE OF NEW LARGE GUNS BCS. BUT I BETS CSMS CLAIM IS ALL EMS WORKS. I FINKS IS IN FACT CCP MAKES GUD CALL AND CHANGES AFTER SHOOTS STATUE AND PEEPS GOINS AWAYS. SO MAKES NEW GUDS SHIPS FER USE TO BLASTS STUFFS. IF SO DONT NEED CSMS TO DO STUFFS. CCP GOTS IT SORTEDS FER FUTURE.

ALSO MITTENS FAIL DELIVERS ON HULKAGEEDONS SO IS LOOKS LIKE HIMS AINT LIVINGS UP TO ALL HIGH AND MIGHTY SPECIALS PERSONS HIMS CLAIMS TO BE. IS JUST WANNABE FAME PERSON INTERESTEDS IN SELF.

"Snow Ogres fall from heaven....... unassembled."
Sidus Sarmiang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-02-29 22:23:57 UTC
I think Snow Ogre beat Akrasjel Lanate for coherency.

Anyways I want to clarify something because dumb people who are incapable of reading and interpreting subject posts, like Delici Feelgood and Akrasjel, keep coming in and frothing about Mittens because this thread was made by a goon . It probably won't help, because I'm pretty sure at this point there're people who care more about hating goons and mittens than they do playing the game and will look for any opportunity they can get to express (impotently, he has 5000+ votes lined up from the core of the CFC alone) why he's a terrible person.


This thread is not about Mittens.

It's not even about whether or not you think the current CSM did good things or bad things.

I'm not supporting any platform or agenda or changes to the game.

The only thing I'm supporting is creating a CSM that's able to work together and with CCP effectively, and I described the methodology of the current CSM and how you can look for candidates who can work within this framework.

I am interested in discussion that helps us better define characteristics that make candidates effective, what I'm calling "good".

Again, this is not about agenda. This is not about candidates being nice warm people that embrace all the peoples of EVE.

If, at any point past this post, you start ranting about agenda or, God forbid, The Mittani, I'm going to assume you're a subhuman idiot who is probably posting, heavily armed, from an underground bunker where you're trying to hide from government death panel patrols that want to drag you off to Obama's FEMA camps.
Delici Feelgood
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-03-01 00:21:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Delici Feelgood
Wow, huge smokescreen attempt here. Suddenly talking about the Mittani and problems associated with his candidacy is suddenly taboo eh? Presumably as it simply disfavours your candidate. You'd have been better leaving the thread as was than applying this BS, especially when in your discussion your opening statements, arguments in the thread and even your closing line all refer to specific candidate references with quite a lot of subjectivity. Such hypocrasy, that you now think to try and quell any objections by simply trying to render them invalid to the points being made. Fooling no-one.

Sidus Sarmiang wrote:
It's not even about whether or not you think the current CSM did good things or bad things.

I'm not supporting any platform or agenda or changes to the game


Thread says what makes a good candidate.

If performance, good or bad, or what a candidate's platform or agenda is gives no inclination to what kind of candidate they are. Well then I'm sorry, I think you missed the whole idea of what campaigning is about, since it is an open forum for voters to see the various qualities and values a candidate might posses, so if you fail to see that, then heaven help Goon politics.

Interesting point about the BCs however, having now checked the older minutes further.
Sidus Sarmiang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-03-01 03:21:09 UTC
Delici Feelgood wrote:
Wow, huge smokescreen attempt here. Suddenly talking about the Mittani and problems associated with his candidacy is suddenly taboo eh? Presumably as it simply disfavours your candidate. You'd have been better leaving the thread as was than applying this BS, especially when in your discussion your opening statements, arguments in the thread and even your closing line all refer to specific candidate references with quite a lot of subjectivity. Such hypocrasy, that you now think to try and quell any objections by simply trying to render them invalid to the points being made. Fooling no-one.

Sidus Sarmiang wrote:
It's not even about whether or not you think the current CSM did good things or bad things.

I'm not supporting any platform or agenda or changes to the game


Thread says what makes a good candidate.

If performance, good or bad, or what a candidate's platform or agenda is gives no inclination to what kind of candidate they are. Well then I'm sorry, I think you missed the whole idea of what campaigning is about, since it is an open forum for voters to see the various qualities and values a candidate might posses, so if you fail to see that, then heaven help Goon politics.

Interesting point about the BCs however, having now checked the older minutes further.



I thought about trolling you further, but I actually posted this thread in the spirit of having a productive discussion about what makes a CSM candidate effective. If you really want to discuss The Mittani that much no one is stopping you from posting in his thread or making a new thread about how bad he is, but if you're trying to bring it up in this thread I'd like you to point out exact quotes in this thread where I support him beyond the disclaimer that I am voting for him and that I am a goon.

If you don't understand that I'm talking about candidate effectiveness, which is an objective measure of how many of their goals they see accomplished or pushed forward, and the virtue of a candidate's platform, which is subjective from player to player (meaning I think different things are important than you) you're beating your head against a wall here. You're welcome to discuss it in candidate threads, and you're welcome to make your own new thread, but I can't make it any clearer that this is not what this is for.

Goddamn, there's people in chat channels saying I should just shut up because reasoning with you is hopeless and you'll never get it, but I'm genuinely hoping that maybe you'll contribute something if you can just realize this thread is not about the Mittani and is just about how to create a CSM that can cooperate.
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#33 - 2012-03-01 03:35:12 UTC
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:
Revolution Rising wrote:
How about this one.

CSM convenes as usual ->
CSM talks for hours on end CCP falls asleep ->
months later in an unrelated feature that CSM didn't even know was happening CCP fucks up totally ->
CCP comes to CSM to go "wtf happened we accidently our game" ->
CSM creates perception they fixed issue ->
CCP fixes issue ->
CCP decides to release feature at later date with better marketing ->
idiots perceive CSM has power ->
Broken-minded Mittani followers take advantage of that and create perception everyone should keep voting mittani to continue this great power.



Except Mittani said we're getting supercapitals nerfed, then supercapitals got nerfed. Mittani said we're getting time dilation, then we got time dilation. Mittani said we're pushing them to remove the focus from WiS to ships in space and oh hey focus went to ships in space. When people say things, they explain how they're going to push for things, then those things happen, I tend to believe the person did a thing.

Then again, I'm not an idiot pubbie that needs to make up fantasies to justify their hatred of CSM6.

ps maybe this attitude is why your ilk tends to be completely powerless.


The points you bring forward have merit. However I do want to point out a little flaw in your vieuw.

Supercapital nerf wasn't a Mittens idea, there were more entities that wanted them nerfed. No solo prize for Mittens there.

Time dilation was actually an idea of someone else if I recall right it was Trebor. Yet again a falsly placed plume in Mittens rear.

The outrage from the community about the Nex store and as a result the uproar to do more FiS instead of WiS gave mittens a tool to work with, but alas without the communities uproar he would have been shooting blanks.

So overall the peacock is well versed in adoning himself with other people's feathers (I give him credit for being well versed in that department) but actually idea's from him are rather slim.
Sidus Sarmiang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-03-01 03:39:57 UTC
Quote:



The points you bring forward have merit. However I do want to point out a little flaw in your vieuw.

Supercapital nerf wasn't a Mittens idea, there were more entities that wanted them nerfed. No solo prize for Mittens there.

Time dilation was actually an idea of someone else if I recall right it was Trebor. Yet again a falsly placed plume in Mittens rear.

The outrage from the community about the Nex store and as a result the uproar to do more FiS instead of WiS gave mittens a tool to work with, but alas without the communities uproar he would have been shooting blanks.

So overall the peacock is well versed in adoning himself with other people's feathers (I give him credit for being well versed in that department) but actually idea's from him are rather slim.



Ok, respond to this again only replace Mittens with CSM because you pubbies keep cherrypicking.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-03-01 04:37:15 UTC
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:
This thread is not about Mittens.

Really?.. Hmmm. Let us have a look at your original post that started this thread...
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:
I'm going to seriouspost a bit. For the record, I'm voting for Mittani.

What? What is this?? The second sentence in your entire post puts Mittani directly into the spotlight and sets the tone for your entire post and this thread. Surely this must be coincidental right?...

What I find amusing is you goons running around in some threads trying to get non-goons to vote for him, in other threads you troll alliances who are voting for a candidate no in their alliance, call anyone who is not a goon a pubbie/whatever and then are completely in shock when there are those who do not wish to vote for him. What kind of strategy is this?
"Vote for Mittani and I also think you suck!" - goons

At this point the only thing I am looking for is for this election process to be over with already. The propaganda coming from everyone's campaign base is dumb, stinks and mostly lies. Just like real life. What?
Sidus Sarmiang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-03-01 04:57:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Sidus Sarmiang
Marlona Sky wrote:
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:
This thread is not about Mittens.

Really?.. Hmmm. Let us have a look at your original post that started this thread...
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:
I'm going to seriouspost a bit. For the record, I'm voting for Mittani.

What? What is this?? The second sentence in your entire post puts Mittani directly into the spotlight and sets the tone for your entire post and this thread. Surely this must be coincidental right?...



My entire post is about how the CSM works together to accomplish the goals and you should vote for candidates that can work with other human beings to get things done. The bit about the Mittani is just a disclaimer so you can't pretend I'm secretly trying to manipulate you when in reality I'm just getting the bit about the fact I'm voting for Mittani out of the way.

The fact I talk about being an effective member of the CSM and your mind automatically equivocates it with Mittani, and then you start raging is p funny though.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-03-01 05:02:15 UTC
Keep fishing bro.
Skye Aurorae
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2012-03-01 05:53:31 UTC
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:

This isn't rocket science.


If the CSM were rocket science I'd be the most qualified candidate -

Take, for example, my guides to orbital mechanics in Kerbal Space Program

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RvVjysJKB4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52HDyqAT0f8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFBftGe_dXQ

Or my map of every known asteroid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONUSP23cmAE

I'm not going to argue against Mittani, but there are no doubt other bits of dead wood in the CSM that can be replaced by a real life expert on space.

Skye Aurora is a 7 year old Girl Who Wants to be on the CSM! Unfortunately, the Lawyers say you have to be 21 - oh well.
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-03-01 14:16:56 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
Time dilation was actually an idea of someone else if I recall right it was Trebor. Yet again a falsly placed plume in Mittens rear.

AFAIK, Time Dilation evolved as a solution one of Team Gridlock's long-term goals (as mentioned in the CSM 5 Winter Summit minutes), "…to have predictable, graceful degradation under load (i.e. when a node gets overloaded the subsequent behavior is predictable and known to the user)"

Time Dilation was first publicly mentioned by CCP Veritas at the Large Scale Warfare roundtable at Fanfest 2011. Everyone on the CSM agreed it was an excellent idea for a variety of reasons, which is why it became a "spotlight" issue for us; we wanted to make sure that it got the resources and prioritization it deserved, and banged the drum loudly for it at every possible opportunity.

This kind of thing -- making sure CCP makes good prioritization decisions -- is one of the most important functions of CSM.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Zixie Draco
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#40 - 2012-03-01 14:36:49 UTC
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:
This thread is not about Mittens.

Really?.. Hmmm. Let us have a look at your original post that started this thread...
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:
I'm going to seriouspost a bit. For the record, I'm voting for Mittani.

What? What is this?? The second sentence in your entire post puts Mittani directly into the spotlight and sets the tone for your entire post and this thread. Surely this must be coincidental right?...



My entire post is about how the CSM works together to accomplish the goals and you should vote for candidates that can work with other human beings to get things done. The bit about the Mittani is just a disclaimer so you can't pretend I'm secretly trying to manipulate you when in reality I'm just getting the bit about the fact I'm voting for Mittani out of the way.

The fact I talk about being an effective member of the CSM and your mind automatically equivocates it with Mittani, and then you start raging is p funny though.



I actually approve of (most) all of these things you speak of in this thread... You make a MUCH better campaign manager for your candidate than I am doing for mine, The Little Peoples' Choice Skippermonkey :]

Well met sir....if you smell what the little people are cooking...

Would you like a kitten?

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