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CCP : MACRO BANNINGS

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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#81 - 2012-02-29 14:26:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
You're Mum wrote:
Andski wrote:
riverini wrote:
I want to invite everybody to stand up and give an standing ovation to Sreegs and CCP for this, the only thing I would ask was why it wasn't done sooner, which i guess is related to how cautious is CCP Games before serving some street justice.

I repeat it BIG APPLAUSE for this!!!! Big smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smile


It'd help if you didn't, you know, publish botting guides on your site.



Yeah riverini a how to guide is so the best way to combat botting.
As always you are made of win! Well done....:slow clap:


That was utterly idiotic when those were published.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#82 - 2012-02-29 14:29:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
You're Mum wrote:

As others have said stats on what alliances have the most bothers would be interesting.
And name and shame also!!



Oh PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do this !

Your typo was appropriate BTW.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Joe Skellington
Sarz'na Khumatari
#83 - 2012-02-29 14:47:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Skellington
Ah, this is good news. Thanks CCP, and the OP for posting.

EDIT: and a list of offenders and the results of the ban (i.e. duration, perm etc) would be cool. They do it with iRO, and it gave people in game an even more bad reputation. Was a good deterrent for that sort of thing. Though I doubt it would effect the big botting houses though, since players doing that is a drop in the bucket.

Please note that ASCII art is not permitted in the forum signatures. Spitfire
jm24
CRICE Corp
#84 - 2012-02-29 15:36:49 UTC
Darius if you really want to make an impact you should trace where the isk/comps to build titans came from for every titan in the game. Banning the input doesn't go far enough, ban the output.
Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2012-02-29 15:48:32 UTC
knowing how to identify bots might help us report them. as a wh corp we often see carriers ratting in deep empty nullsec areas, if we knew what alliences and behavour to look for it might make it easier for us to report them
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#86 - 2012-02-29 16:08:36 UTC
Who needs Hulkageddon when CCP themselves can cause more tears in one massive wave. Twisted
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#87 - 2012-02-29 16:08:50 UTC
I see that people are asking to make bot accounts un-sellable and for information on what alliances they were in.

If there was a "Hall of Shame" established whereby the names of every char who is caught botting is published, even if for a temporary ban, then this would have the effect of both making the account un-sellable or at the least buyers have a way of knowing, and naturally we would be able to see what alliance and corp the bot was in and establish a pattern for that.

Note that it's also a liability for corporations and alliances to sign on botters, so they should have the right to know. If a corp or alliance prides itself on not running bots for integrity reasons, they deserve to have tool available to keep botters out of their ranks.

Now I fully expect resistance to that. People will speak of "privacy" but this is an MMO (a GAME), not a country with a congress or parliament. CCP can do whatever the f**k it pleases and if the player base asks for a Hall of Shame to out those banned for botting, then they should have it.

We need a Hall of Shame or a list of banned characters for all of the Eve Universe to see. Not only will this help in shaming those caught in an activity that wrecks this game (along with their corps and alliances) but it will allow "the sandbox to take care of things" in the long run. All we need is the info.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Ishihiro tanaka
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2012-02-29 16:11:06 UTC
Heh, I was in Amsterdam too :)

No ill after effects with the hot sauce Sreegs?

Proud recruiter for the Goonswarm Federation. We have space for rent, contact me ingame! Supers for sale via the trusted third-party service of TheMittani. Dozens of satisfied customers bought or sold their super, join their ranks. Convo me!
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#89 - 2012-02-29 16:12:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Spank
Take no action against botters other than to make their characters permanently sanctionable targets for all capsuleers!

You like to bot? Well we know some people that like to pew pew!

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2012-02-29 16:22:30 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Take no action against botters other than to make their characters permanently sanctionable targets for all capsuleers!

You like to bot? Well we know some people that like to pew pew!


How about just perma ban them on first strike? instead of the silly 10-14 day slap they get now + not being able to resell them...

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#91 - 2012-02-29 16:32:17 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
Take no action against botters other than to make their characters permanently sanctionable targets for all capsuleers!

You like to bot? Well we know some people that like to pew pew!


How about just perma ban them on first strike? instead of the silly 10-14 day slap they get now + not being able to resell them...


I was aiming for something a little more entertaining for the player base but in seriousness, I kind of think a one-time slap on the wrist is ok.... as long as the characters cant be recycled/sold. Like IP tracking and ban all accounts / remove character sale priveliges etc etc. (I know IP bans arent infallible but it catches all current accounts of that person) etc etc.

Uh... this is a brainfart, don't read into it too much.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#92 - 2012-02-29 16:38:34 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
You're Mum wrote:
Andski wrote:
It'd help if you didn't, you know, publish botting guides on your site.

Yeah riverini a how to guide is so the best way to combat botting.
As always you are made of win! Well done....:slow clap:

That was utterly idiotic when those were published.

This sounds like something very newsworthy. I suppose he has of course by now pulled his incriminating evidence off his entirely balanced and not at all telling people how to bot site?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#93 - 2012-02-29 16:43:55 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Take no action against botters other than to make their characters permanently sanctionable targets for all capsuleers!

You like to bot? Well we know some people that like to pew pew!


Fine for high sec rogue mining botters, but doesn't work really as the majority of bots are buried within, and protected by, the 0.0 alliances to which they belong.

NO... just delete the characters involved.

Mr Epeen Cool
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#94 - 2012-02-29 16:46:59 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
Take no action against botters other than to make their characters permanently sanctionable targets for all capsuleers!

You like to bot? Well we know some people that like to pew pew!


Fine for high sec rogue mining botters, but doesn't work really as the majority of bots are buried within, and protected by, the 0.0 alliances to which they belong.

NO... just delete the characters involved.

Mr Epeen Cool


Exactly, give them a one time warning and on second offense, just biomass the character. Twisted
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#95 - 2012-02-29 17:04:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Bubanni wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
Take no action against botters other than to make their characters permanently sanctionable targets for all capsuleers!

You like to bot? Well we know some people that like to pew pew!


How about just perma ban them on first strike? instead of the silly 10-14 day slap they get now + not being able to resell them...


I am going to play devil's advocate on this, as I read it everywhere again and again, pitchforks and torches readied to kill with no second thought.



They could perma ban on first strike if a list of banned software was available or if some button could tell people "HEY GUY YOU ARE ABOUT TO START EVE WITH SUSPICIOUS SOFTWARE RUNNING!"

How do you know if tomorrow you buy a new keyboard and it triggers a bot detection and you get permabanned?
Or you install something that automates some mundane task in another software and its "engine" is shared by one of the bots and thus gets detected by EvE?

Other times they ban by using heuristics (expecially when a player activity is "strange" / reported but no blatant bot engine is found). They cannot perma ban on first strike because of heuristics, heuristics always come with false positives.

Would YOU like to be perma banned out of the blue, just because you played in a way that somehow triggered the heuristic?

You are all so sure that everything goes black and white, but it does not.

Imagine if a bug in the detection engine causes 1000 auto-permabans and then someone proves a bug screwed good players. Imagine the adverse publicity on the game.

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Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#96 - 2012-02-29 17:06:15 UTC
CCP dont ruin invasive software, they apply bans based on in game activity.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#97 - 2012-02-29 17:11:34 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Imagine if a bug in the detection engine causes 1000 auto-permabans and then someone proves a bug screwed good players. Imagine the adverse publicity on the game.

Oh ho. That would be quite hilarious. We all know CCP's code is flawless and would never bug out, crash the game or worse somehow permaban people if it were allowed to take such action.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#98 - 2012-02-29 17:14:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Lady Spank wrote:
CCP dont ruin invasive software, they apply bans based on in game activity.


Exactly.

Imagine you (for any reason, you pay a sub after all) have 1-2 PvP / mission accounts aka "active" accounts and 2 industry characters that do nothing but run BPO research / T2 invention / datacore / manufacturing etc.

Imagine you play 6 hours a day after lunch, you use the 2 "active" accounts to do your fun stuff. The 2 industry accounts sit in a station unused, so you decide to put them on ALT TAB ice mining.

After 3 months of playing like this, some guy reports your alts.

CCP investigates, finds out a very regular log in - log off pattern, an high number of hours played and for many weeks, ice mining is involved.

They do 1 + 1 and ban all your accounts.

Did you cheat? No. You just neatly fell into an usage pattern that happens to seem like a botter.

Because mining is such a bad mechanic, there's no 100% foolproof way for CCP employees to be SURE you did not bot.


Now imagine that the heuristics they use are so damn accurate that with some unknown magic they REALLY discern the true botter in 95% of the cases (very very high).

Next week they ban 6000 bots, 1000 of which are heuristics based.

50 guys will be banned for no reason.

They WILL be unable to post on the forums.
They WILL be unable to file a petition.
They WILL be unable to do anything but fill the "available for everyone" email form and be put in a 1 month queue just to know WTF happened them.

After 1 month they will be told that they have been found botting.
What do those guys have at disposal to prove they did not bot? NOTHING. There's not a "submit computer configuration" that they could use to send CCP and prove their computer is clean, there's nothing at all.


And people here demands first strike perma ban?

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Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#99 - 2012-02-29 17:26:13 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Bubanni wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
Take no action against botters other than to make their characters permanently sanctionable targets for all capsuleers!

You like to bot? Well we know some people that like to pew pew!


How about just perma ban them on first strike? instead of the silly 10-14 day slap they get now + not being able to resell them...


I am going to play devil's advocate on this, as I read it everywhere again and again, pitchforks and torches readied to kill with no second thought.



They could perma ban on first strike if a list of banned software was available or if some button could tell people "HEY GUY YOU ARE ABOUT TO START EVE WITH SUSPICIOUS SOFTWARE RUNNING!"

How do you know if tomorrow you buy a new keyboard and it triggers a bot detection and you get permabanned?
Or you install something that automates some mundane task in another software and its "engine" is shared by one of the bots and thus gets detected by EvE?

Other times they ban by using heuristics (expecially when a player activity is "strange" / reported but no blatant bot engine is found). They cannot perma ban on first strike because of heuristics, heuristics always come with false positives.

Would YOU like to be perma banned out of the blue, just because you played in a way that somehow triggered the heuristic?

You are all so sure that everything goes black and white, but it does not.

Imagine if a bug in the detection engine causes 1000 auto-permabans and then someone proves a bug screwed good players. Imagine the adverse publicity on the game.


I'm going to play the devils advocate to your advocate.

For starters, permaban =/= all hope is lost. If you can prove without a doubt that it was some background code similar to that of a botting script (though what it could be is beyond me) then you can petition it and get your account back.

To my knowledge there is no such thing as ban software, unless you are calling ccp employees soft. They have software to detect bots. Then they tie the bot accounts to any other accounts possibly used by the same IP or CC and investigate those accounts. They spend months creating these bundles so that they may ban en mass. They do it this way so that it makes it harder for a botter to know when and how they were detected. I'd like to think that they are as thorough as they can be but they are only human and as stated, if you can prove without a doubt through level headed communications with their team, you can be unbanned. What I'm getting at is that it's a human who 'flips the switch', not some program. The closest I have ever seen to a ban program is punkbuster, but it doesn't ban you , it merely kicks you out of game. This isn't some instance where a 0 shows up when a 1 should have, botters are watched for quite a while so unless you are performing the exact same action every day I think you should be safe.

I can imagine if such a program exists, and it does ban 1000 people, that 1000 people would be screaming bloody murder that the team would be looking into the glitch very quickly. I can also imagine that once the investigation is complete that 1000 people would be immediately unbanned and time given for time lost.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#100 - 2012-02-29 17:27:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
EVE does fingerprint your computer you idiots

though not background code unless they're planting spyware in which case we have a problem

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.