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Firetail vs Dramiel
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Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#1 - 2012-02-28 18:29:19 UTC
Hi All,

Dramiel and Firetail are very similar with regards to slots etc. However, with its drones and bonuses the Dramiel seems to perform always better than the Firetail. I am wondering if there is any scenario thinkable where the Firetail can outperform Dramiel?
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2012-02-28 18:35:45 UTC
The biggest thing the Firetail has going for it is that it's 40-50M cheaper IIRC. The Dram will out perform the Firetail, but it's also many times the cost of a Firetail. So, if you have unlimited budget, then yes, the Dram will pretty much always be better.
Belthazor4011
Battle BV Redux
#3 - 2012-02-29 00:42:27 UTC
Price, skill requirements and looks are 3 things going for the FireTail

I love mine :)
Alara IonStorm
#4 - 2012-02-29 01:11:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Looking at Max Skill.

The Firetail has the same number of slots in the same position as the Dramiel as well as the same hardpoints but the Firetail has better fitting. At max skill +2.5 PG +9.75 CPU. The Firetail also has a 6.25km longer targeting range. Firetail has a teeny tiny bit more Shield +4 but markedly less Armor -70 and Structure -16.

The Dramiel has an extra bonus to falloff and the same Damage Buff as the Firetail through its Role Bonus plus a 15m3 Drone Bay. Dramiel is faster +62m/s, more agile -.5s align, higher sensor strength +2, Scan Res +112.5 and Max Target Count +1 whilst having a Smaller Sig Rad -3.

Those are the major differences in stats. Cost, Fitting and Target range being in the Firetails favor while everything else goes to the Dramiel.

I can not think of any time where the extra fitting would put the Firetail ahead though.
Andrea Griffin
#5 - 2012-02-29 01:57:19 UTC
The Firetail also has the reputation of being a bad ship. It isn't; it's like a Rifter on steroids. Still, people think it's a bad ship because it's not a Dramiel, so you're likely to get more fights if you fly one. That alone can make it worth flying.

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
Ryder 3vyn
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-02-29 02:17:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryder 3vyn
I don't dislike the Firetail because it's not a Dramiel - I hate it because it is hilariously underpowered compared to the other navy frigates.

The Comet has the great DPS / drones / speed like most Gallente frigs, the Slicer has the speed / range thing, the Hookbill has the speed / tackle / range thing, but the Firetail hasn't got anything of value compared to the rest of them. You can basicly get the same DPS / tank out of a Hookbill, but with far better appliable DPS and more ability to control range.

It can be flown effectively, but it is a bad ship.
Ahrieman
Codex Praedonum
Divine Damnation
#7 - 2012-02-29 02:24:24 UTC
Confirming that the FIretail is outclassed by all the other Navy Faction frigs. I fly it because it gets more fights and it's cheap.

Solo Rifter since 2009
Andrea Griffin
#8 - 2012-02-29 02:38:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Griffin
Ryder 3vyn wrote:
It can be flown effectively, but it is a bad ship.
Is the Rifter a bad ship? Nah.

The Firetail may be underwhelming compared to the Comet (with its face-melting ability) the Hookbill (with its famous dual-web), and the Slicer (with its wonderful damage projection), but it's not a bad ship.

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
To mare
Advanced Technology
#9 - 2012-02-29 08:38:05 UTC
you can kill half of the dps of a dramiel but you cant kill the dps of the firetail.
this and the price are the only advantages of the firetail
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#10 - 2012-02-29 10:09:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Meditril
Thank you for sharing your interesting thoughts on this topic.

When I started this thread I had the feeling that the Firetails needs a buff... but now I am not sure about this any more. I know from own experience that sometimes it is really useful to fly an underrated ship like for example the Scythe Fleet Issue just because of its seldomness, surprise, and the fights attraction factor. So maybe we should indeed leave it as it is, who said that every ship needs to excel in at least one aspect? :-)
Belthazor4011
Battle BV Redux
#11 - 2012-02-29 10:44:42 UTC
Very true I love my Navy Exequror for this reason, it will get fights and win most of them too. Same with the Firetail, I've beaten all the other Faction frigs with it before.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#12 - 2012-02-29 16:00:45 UTC
Andrea Griffin wrote:
The Firetail also has the reputation of being a bad ship. It isn't; it's like a Rifter on steroids. Still, people think it's a bad ship because it's not a Dramiel, so you're likely to get more fights if you fly one. That alone can make it worth flying.


This.

In the hands of a competent pilot, it's deadly.

I am by no means a vanguard of competence but I more or less know my stuff and where I would sometimes be hesitant of engaging a Dramiel, I wouldn't think twice about going up against a Firetail.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
TotalRapeage
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-02-29 19:47:15 UTC
Ahrieman wrote:
Confirming that the FIretail is outclassed by all the other Navy Faction frigs. I fly it because it gets more fights and it's cheap.



If those are the only two reasons why you fly it, then why not just hop in a rifter or something cheaper which will still get fights?
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-02-29 19:57:59 UTC
Its kinda sad too that with insurance, AFs are almost the same replacement cost as the FireFail.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#15 - 2012-03-01 00:51:59 UTC
Confirming the Firetail needs a buff when compared to the other navy frigates Sad

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Griznatch
Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#16 - 2012-03-01 19:42:27 UTC
I wanna say the firetail is a little lighter on cap too. Ive not flown one in a while but it seems like they always got too low on cap before my drams ever did.

I used to have a clever sig but I lost it.
Ravenesa
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-03-01 20:56:25 UTC
*sigh* I lost a Dram to a Firetail. Went after the Firetail at a Minor Complex gate and we landed with the gate between us. He had a web, TD, Scram, and AB. I was dual prop buffer fit so he was able to dictate barrage range and take out my drones. It was the right fit to counter my setup and luck wasn't on my side.

Given the right circumstances the Firetail can be a good choice if you pick the fight.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#18 - 2012-03-01 21:30:32 UTC
Griznatch wrote:
I wanna say the firetail is a little lighter on cap too. Ive not flown one in a while but it seems like they always got too low on cap before my drams ever did.


I just pulled up EVEMon and looked at the numbers. The Firetail has lower cap, but it also has lower cap regen time. A bit of division gave me that the Firetail regens 1.333 cap/second on average and the Dram regens 1.5 cap/sec. So, the Dram does have a bit better cap, but not by a ton (the Dram actually has the exact same cap as the Comet, while the Firetail has the same cap as the Rifter).
Griznatch
Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#19 - 2012-03-01 23:17:24 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Griznatch wrote:
I wanna say the firetail is a little lighter on cap too. Ive not flown one in a while but it seems like they always got too low on cap before my drams ever did.


I just pulled up EVEMon and looked at the numbers. The Firetail has lower cap, but it also has lower cap regen time. A bit of division gave me that the Firetail regens 1.333 cap/second on average and the Dram regens 1.5 cap/sec. So, the Dram does have a bit better cap, but not by a ton (the Dram actually has the exact same cap as the Comet, while the Firetail has the same cap as the Rifter).


I always ran gistii b type props on my drams and not on my firetail, after I posted I reasoned that might be why I was seeing what I was seeing, but that only made an existing issue worse it would appear.

I used to have a clever sig but I lost it.
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-03-02 16:10:24 UTC
Quote:
Is the Rifter a bad ship? Nah.

The Firetail may be underwhelming compared to the Comet (with its face-melting ability) the Hookbill (with its famous dual-web), and the Slicer (with its wonderful damage projection), but it's not a bad ship.


The rifter is not a bad ship since it is a t1 frigate, and compared to the other t1 frigs, the rifter is good.
The firetail is a bad ship since it is a navy frigate, and compared to the other navy frigs, the firetail is bad.

It may just be an improved rifter, but it hasn't been improved nearly enough to be considered as good as a navy frigate.
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