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Crucible Big Time POS NERF
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TravisWB
#1 - 2012-02-28 01:28:34 UTC
Prior to Crucible it was possible to run a "hobby" small tower with very little time and effort required to produce all the fuel items needed to run a small moon miner in lowsec.

Even better, a secure hisec small tower could run just the tower and a lab or 2 for almost nothing in the way of fuel and a single person could keep such towers running with little effort.

Well, now that is all different and even a small tower with a single module is running at full load as though it was maxed out with modules.

And prior to Crucible it sure as heck wasn't costing me 27 mil isk a week to run a single small tower either.

Result? All my towers are down, I stopped doing PI and Ice mining on a corporate level and am more or less abandoning INDUSTRY as a viable part of EVE gameplay.

I have also noticed a great many more offline towers than ever before so I'm guessing I am not alone in this.
Brock Nelson
#2 - 2012-02-28 01:51:27 UTC
It's easy to make the isk to cover for fuel cost. You're doing something wrong if you find that you can't pay for small tower

Signature removed, CCP Phantom
Sidrat Flush
KarmaFleet
#3 - 2012-02-28 01:51:34 UTC
Can we get pos's that haven't been fueled for more than 30 days to go boom like the jet cans?

Pretty please?

Its time to stand up against the bad empire based CEO telling falsehoods about what new characters can accomplish and pushing them towards an in game experience of drudgery and loneliness keeping them in the shadow of ignorance for at nest their own profit at worse apathy towards all the experiences that Eve has to offer.
Rengerel en Distel
#4 - 2012-02-28 02:23:24 UTC
If you can't make enough to cover the cost of running the POS, then it seems reasonable to shut it down. The gameplay changed, adapt or not.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Aggressive Nutmeg
#5 - 2012-02-28 04:12:50 UTC
TravisWB wrote:
And prior to Crucible it sure as heck wasn't costing me 27 mil isk a week to run a single small tower either.

It takes an average mission runner about an hour to make that much. Pretty cheap if you ask me.

Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#6 - 2012-02-28 04:15:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
Didn't scrapyard bob run the numbers, and find it was cheaper for small poses, regardless of how much CPU and PG you used to use?

Due to things like smaller volumes of robotics being used?

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
#7 - 2012-02-28 04:46:41 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Didn't scrapyard bob run the numbers, and find it was cheaper for small poses, regardless of how much CPU and PG you used to use?

Due to things like smaller volumes of robotics being used?


yupp
loyalslave Askold
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-02-28 08:21:22 UTC  |  Edited by: loyalslave Askold
27 mil per week?
thats >16k per fuelblock. For someone trying trying to cut down the costs you sure are generous in giving tip to the fuel producers.

TravisWB wrote:

Even better, a secure hisec small tower could run just the tower and a lab or 2 for almost nothing in the way of fuel and a single person could keep such towers running with little effort.


You do realise that most costs were fix the whole time, do you? Even a totaly empty small tower saved only 10% on the costs.
All in all the reduction in robotics made it cheaper :

empty cald small tower (0% pg/cpu; prices jita sell ; blocks bought, not built)
old : 176,725 / h
new 157,970 / h
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#9 - 2012-02-28 12:17:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
I would define it as a POS fix, not a nerf.

Indeed the cost of fueling a tower if you buy the fuel has DOUBLED (do the math yourself) if one buys the fuel off the market.

And yes even lots of Null Alliance Towers have come down.

BUT, there are WAY too many POS's out there anyway, most barely even used.

This is working as intended I believe.

Besides, I'm making a freaking fortune from the new fuel blocks, so win for me ! P

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Dasola
New Edens Freeports
#10 - 2012-02-28 14:00:56 UTC
i dont know what type of pos setup you run exactly but this fuel block thing made it cheaper for me to run small tower with 2 labs in highsec. Yeah im too lazy to bother with PI to make it fuel myself.

We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do...
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
#11 - 2012-02-28 15:43:58 UTC
Sidrat Flush wrote:
Can we get pos's that haven't been fueled for more than 30 days to go boom like the jet cans?

Pretty please?


I had a cursory glance at a couple of planets the other day and both had towers anchored & offline. I don't think it would be fair for them to 'go boom'. A far better idea in roleplay/storyline terms would be for Minmatar Republic to charge a fine of xxxx amount of ISK per day from the corp wallet while a tower is offline. After all if a tower is offline then racial charters are not being delivered to the relevant authorities hence permission for your tower to be there is withdrawn. If after two weeks there are not sufficient funds to pay the fines or the tower has not been brought back online then the tower would be confiscated by the racial authorities and can be claimed back by the corporations CEO for xxxx amount of ISK.

As to fueling towers a couple of pilots doing PI with five or six planets each even in high-sec with a bit of ice mining on top will fuel a large POS. Much less than that for a small POS.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#12 - 2012-02-28 18:26:38 UTC
Dasola wrote:
i dont know what type of pos setup you run exactly but this fuel block thing made it cheaper for me to run small tower with 2 labs in highsec. Yeah im too lazy to bother with PI to make it fuel myself.

I have a small tower running three labs and a corp hanger just cause there is room. Defenses are kept off till i get a war dec. Which has not yet happened.

I find a small tower uses way less fuel than before. fuel prices have gone up, yes, but that is not because of the POS change it is because of the PI change.
If you calculate old fuel consumption with the new cost of mats it would have went up way more without the change to fuel blocks.
A fully loaded tower uses far less ice products than it used to, but those products are much higher cost than they were before crucible. And most PI mats are lower as well. for example a small tower used to need one robotics per hour same as a large but now needs one robotics per batch of fuel blocks which lasts 4 hours on a small tower and O2 consumption seems to have gone way down.

I am pretty much making the same number of PI fuel mats I was before, and since the expansion I seem to have a significantly higher surplus.

I would like to see ice refining changed a bit though since the liquid ozone and heavy water you get from refining high sec ice is more out of balance than before. you need the same amount of each per run but get no where near the same amount per block from refining.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#13 - 2012-02-28 18:47:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

I would like to see ice refining changed a bit though since the liquid ozone and heavy water you get from refining high sec ice is more out of balance than before.


Yup. Welcome to the New Bottleneck: Liquid Ozone.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Ajita al Tchar
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-02-28 19:38:50 UTC
OP, ff you actually do industry with the aid of your high sec small POS (as the "bawww imma quit industry" part of your post would suggest you do...), there's only one way you might not be able to afford to keep the tower online and not even really worry about the cost much: you're doing it really wrong. Sure, it might feel annoying to have to shell out 100 mil or so for fuel for one month, but you can literally make that much money in a day, without even any PI or mining or whatever. Easily, lots of people make more than that.

Anyway, I hope you were occupying an industry niche that I had a foot in because that means even more money for me :D

PS: I love fuel blocks.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#15 - 2012-02-28 19:43:25 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

I would like to see ice refining changed a bit though since the liquid ozone and heavy water you get from refining high sec ice is more out of balance than before.


Yup. Welcome to the New Bottleneck: Liquid Ozone.


Yeah, this is a bottleneck in POS fuel (and was before the block change too, but not quite as bad). I think it's both because you get half the LOz as HW when you refine ice and it's in higher demand because LOz is used in cynos and I don't remember anything using HW other than Rorquals compressing.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#16 - 2012-02-28 19:48:56 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

I would like to see ice refining changed a bit though since the liquid ozone and heavy water you get from refining high sec ice is more out of balance than before.


Yup. Welcome to the New Bottleneck: Liquid Ozone.


Yeah, this is a bottleneck in POS fuel (and was before the block change too, but not quite as bad). I think it's both because you get half the LOz as HW when you refine ice and it's in higher demand because LOz is used in cynos and I don't remember anything using HW other than Rorquals compressing.


pretty much this. Not to mention that you get twice the HW from (hisec) ice than LO.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#17 - 2012-02-28 19:53:52 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

I would like to see ice refining changed a bit though since the liquid ozone and heavy water you get from refining high sec ice is more out of balance than before.


Yup. Welcome to the New Bottleneck: Liquid Ozone.


Yeah, this is a bottleneck in POS fuel (and was before the block change too, but not quite as bad). I think it's both because you get half the LOz as HW when you refine ice and it's in higher demand because LOz is used in cynos and I don't remember anything using HW other than Rorquals compressing.


pretty much this. Not to mention that you get twice the HW from (hisec) ice than LO.


I do believe I mentioned thatP
mxzf wrote:
you get half the LOz as HW when you refine ice

Though I do admit it's not the most elegant wording possible, lol.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#18 - 2012-02-28 20:12:46 UTC
mxzf wrote:

I do believe I mentioned thatP
mxzf wrote:
you get half the LOz as HW when you refine ice

Though I do admit it's not the most elegant wording possible, lol.


that you did ... missed it on the first pass thru Oops

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#19 - 2012-02-28 20:46:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Velicitia wrote:

pretty much this. Not to mention that you get twice the HW from (hisec) ice than LO.



Of course the Nullbears (Lowbear-ing is impossible I assume) have it all sealed up as usual with access to Glare Crust and Dark Glitter. Evil

Ice Batch Type Isotopes Liquid Ozone Heavy Water Strontium
White Glaze 1 Nitrogen 300 25 50 1
Pristine White Glaze 1 Nitrogen 350 40 75 1
Glacial Mass 1 Hydrogen 300 25 50 1
Smooth Glacial Mass 1 Hydrogen 350 40 75 1
Blue Ice 1 Oxygen 300 25 50 1
Thick Blue Ice 1 Oxygen 350 40 75 1
Clear Icicle 1 Helium 300 25 50 1
Enriched Clear Icicle 1 Helium 350 40 75 1
Glare Crust 1 - 0 500 1,000 25
Dark Glitter 1 - 0 1,000 500 50
Gelidus 1 - 0 500 250 75
Krystallos 1 - 0 250 100 100

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Velicitia
XS Tech
#20 - 2012-02-28 20:55:01 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Velicitia wrote:

pretty much this. Not to mention that you get twice the HW from (hisec) ice than LO.



Of course the Nullbears (Lowbear-ing is impossible I assume) have it all sealed up as usual with access to Glare Crust and Dark Glitter. Evil

Ice Batch Type Isotopes Liquid Ozone Heavy Water Strontium
White Glaze 1 Nitrogen 300 25 50 1
Pristine White Glaze 1 Nitrogen 350 40 75 1
Glacial Mass 1 Hydrogen 300 25 50 1
Smooth Glacial Mass 1 Hydrogen 350 40 75 1
Blue Ice 1 Oxygen 300 25 50 1
Thick Blue Ice 1 Oxygen 350 40 75 1
Clear Icicle 1 Helium 300 25 50 1
Enriched Clear Icicle 1 Helium 350 40 75 1
Glare Crust 1 - 0 500 1,000 25
Dark Glitter 1 - 0 1,000 500 50
Gelidus 1 - 0 500 250 75
Krystallos 1 - 0 250 100 100


you might wanna re-check where you can get the good ice. for example, check out Osvetur sometime.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
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