EVE General Discussion

April Fools Day Joke: Reset *ALL* space to 0.0 for 24 hours at downtime...

April 2nd April Fools Day Joke: Reset servers to April 1st....


Hi-Sec = "safer"
Hi-Sec =/= "Safe"

As to how you can be at war with everyone? Move to Wormholes. If it ain't your corp/alliance, it's a target.

Bye the way, we get around just fine, thanks.

Because it's also the thread where Devs trolledlolololol?

Yes. If wardecs were ever to be made consensual-only, highsec would have to be removed for the simple reason that if it remained in the game, industrial and economic warfare would no longer be possible.

Non sequitur, so no. It's not that highsec exists only for wardecs; it's that wardecs exists as a different payment scheme for highsec aggression, and that aggression needs to always exist in order for the market and the conflict over resources and production to work properly. Sure, you could remove non-consensual wardecs, but then you'd have to remove the resources and production facilities (and quite possibly the market too) from those consensual-pvp areas as well to ensure that they are still very much open for attack (only now it's in low and null, where you can attack them regardless). With all of that removed, what's left of highsec that's worth keeping? A few stations with no services — you might as well remove it all.

…except that pvp has nothing to do with being in low or null — pvp is everywhere. Highsec is just as much of a pvp arena as the rest of the game, so no, leaving highsec just to shoot stuff is and never should be a necessity. People who can't fight back should learn to fight back (or to employ evasion and security techniques that let them stay alive in spite of the dangerous environment). They've chosen to play a pvp-centric game where non-consensual pvp in all its forms is one of the cornerstones that makes the whole thing work — perhaps they should learn to deal with that fact…

Sorry, why should they be 'forced' to fight back? This a sandbox isnt it? where people can choose their own paths? Eve is not a PVP centric game at all. I mean look at the state of PVP. Some of those professions CCP clearly states is Mining, Manufacturing how is this PVP centric? Its not..
Yes I do agree it shouldnt be without its risks, completely risk free rewards isnt right. However maybe thats the issue, the rewards in highsec need to be very very basic, so that its not really worth staying in highsec to really progress. Its like any MMO you are slowly moved up the ladder. Super easy at first, with very little rewards, but as you progress you get thrown into more hostile situations. Usual Risk Vs Reward scenario. Highsec should not be about war decs and pvp. It should be like training grounds. Yes have the hubs etc etc but for actually making isk, or building etc then it should be severely limited. So basically anything gained in highsec is really of little value. This is how it should really be.

If you then want to pvp proper, low sec and nullsec should be those areas to do that in. Better resources, isk making etc, but a bit more risk. Thats where things like FW comes in. I do not agree that people who join FW should be allowed to potter about in highsec. Whats that all about? You consensually join a war milita ( this is where consensual combat does happen) but yet you are allowed to be safe in empire? Thats wrong. They should remove the navy police. if you are in a war militia then you should be able to be shot by the opposite guys anywhere and not be protected. You joined a war now deal with it,

The problem is new players cannot cope with being ganked etc, and why should they. I bet when you first played you knew nothing about eve and whats going on and how it works etc. But yet you expect new players to now? This is why new players are not staying in the game. Now you might say well this is eve, yes fine, but if you want eve to survive then whats going to happen when all the bitter vets have gone? Nothing to fill the void. There is no point having that bitter vet attitude. Infact you should be trying to get more people in the game and staying, rather than thinking about your own sandbox. Because thats what you are doing. Thinking about yourself.

War decs just seem a nightmare. You get the lame pvpers who grief and cant really pvp, and you get highseccers complaining because they cant do anything about it.

FW is the consensual combat if ppl want to pvp and basically get free wars then this should be the way to go, but also open up highsec (meaning remove the boundaries and police) If you are in war you are in war simple.
If you want to grief cos you are lame then this shouldnt happen either, because basically you complain highseccers stay in highsec, but yet its ok for the griefers to stay in highsec for pvp? double standards much...

so TLDR

Highsec should be severely limited, in resources, missions etc, even cut down the number of systems in highsec. Thus limiting the actually amount of resources available too. i also mean severely limit the 'value' of resources in highsec. Make it more into a training grounds. If people want to move on in the game then they need to more to lowsec/nullsec
So for instance remove 50% of of highsec systems, make them new low sec regions.Whats left of highsec make the value of anything much much lower in isk wise. Remove ability to build anything bigger than a frigate. Stuff like that. Missions will only have level 1/2 agents. Really basic, learning, isk making.

Low sec is basically where the consensual PVP Happens (Faction Warfare) - Essentially free war decs.
Either dont allow people in FW to go into highsec, or open up highsec so they are not protected by boundaries and navy police.
Better resources, and value of commodities found here, ability to build more

You get my drift...

Remove war decs completely..
Nullsec well thats another story

Who said they should? I said they should learn to fight back or learn to employ the evasion and security techniques needed to survive. Since it's a sandbox, they can choose their own path. Since it's a sandbox, they they can't choose (and should never be able to choose) is what actions are available to others in trying to attack them.

…aside from everything in it being PvP. With two very small exceptions, everything you do is done in conflict with or competition with other players — PvP. Manufacturing, for instance, is one of the more vicious PvP arenas the game offers due to the availability of (mainly) research space and the constant struggle to improve your margins over the other guy through the use of that research. It also feeds directly into the most vicious PvP arena — the market. If you are a manufacturer, you are also, inevitably, a market PvPer.

Sure it should, for the simple reason that the rest of the game is. You can't “train for” wardecs and PvP in an area where neither exists. Highsec is not a training ground — it's just the ground floor where you can engage in your chosen form of PvP under more easily controlled circumstances. The training grounds you talk about already exist, and they already have the limits you want to see.

Sure they can. They don't have much to lose at that point, and in spite of the persistent cries of “think of the newbies” (largely from people who aren't newbies when they're getting ganked…) I have seen precious little to suggest that this supposed scourge of the new player actually exists. So even if they can't cope with it, the actual question is do they need to cope with it?

When I first played, I understood that EVE was not your standard MMO and that it was, in fact, a rather dangerous place. As a result, I took the time to learn basic security behaviour to minimise my risks as I learned how everything else worked. This let my come away from my first year with exactly one attempted (and hilariously failed) ganking attack. It's not hard. It is, in fact, very very easy. It also has exactly nothing to do with being new and everything to do with having the false notion that EVE is like all those other PvE-based grindfests out there. That's what kills new players and make them quit: their assumptions, preconceptions, and refusal to give up both and learn.

In what way am I thinking about myself? I'm using myself as an example of why newbies doesn't have it nearly as bad as people want to claim they do. When I joined, the newbie game was a lot more opaque and uninformative than it is now, and yet, survival, learning, and progress was ridiculously easy.

The undock button is the consensual combat switch. Highsec is not a pvp-free zone, nor should it be (because that just means highsec can safely be removed from the game as it no longer serves any useful purpose). These are the very simply ground rules a new player needs to understand from day one, rather than clinging to unfounded expectations based on completely different games. If they do that, the rest will be easy as hell and they won't need any special training grounds.

It's called:

. Having a life and not wanting to spend several hours dealing with some silly twats on the internet who think it's funny to grief other players

. Not wanting to go and pick fights they know they can't win because they do PvE or Industry more

. Knowing that the game is rigged and even if that griefer is only in a one man corp he might have 7 of his friends hiding ready to take your corp members out

. They'll inevitably also be in a 30+ corporation so you're either going to be forced to disband or recruit far more players than you originally wanted to if they're actually serious about attacking

This is a ******* sandbox so quit trying to force someone elses playstyle on another just because you're bored you ******* muppets you always cry about players trying to change your game yet you go around griefing players constantly for their playstyle and then wonder why they're quitting or disbanding their corporations.

None of this would be happening if wardecs were consentual and that's a fact, all the current wardec system does is cater to lazy ass PvPers who are too cowardly to pick a fight with someone they might actually lose against.

Why is it every time I read one of your post's I need to take an Ibuprofen?

You know Tuxford might be on to something with the whole create a corp and at war with everyone.
What about a new type of corp (well call it Pvp corp) That once made you are constantly at war with every other corp of the same type (pvp corp) that exists and no matter where you are you can shoot at their members and vice versa. Allow standard war decs to apply as well so that if a pvp corp wants to dec a normal corp they can with the same mechanics that exist today.

I dont know if Pvpers would like something like that but who knows it kinda sounds fun

Just a note the Pvp corp would be completly different than normal corps and their would be no switching back and forth.
And you might have to add some fourm of timer for leaving a pvp corp. Like takes 3 days to leave and once you do you cant join another pvp corp for a week or something.

…not wanting to do anything about it, which is vastly different from not being able to do anything about it. There is plenty they can do — they just choose not to.

Exactly. So quit trying to circumscribe what someone else can do just because you can't deal with their playstyle. Being a sandbox doesn't mean that you can do whatever you want. It means everyone can do whatever they want, including things you do not like.

Beyond that, it's not just a sandbox — it's a sandbox built around a market fed by the destruction/production cycle of a war economy. Things blowing up and being replaced is what keeps the entire universe going, and competition over the resources and production chains is a key component in this struggle.

Quite correct. If wardecs were consensual, highsec would have no purpose to exist, and none of this silly “onoz, I wasn't safe in highsec — fix it!” whining would happen because people would never come to such a silly and false conclusion as there being such a thing as safe space.

Global RvB flag in empire for corps by choice? Not a horrible idea.