These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123
 

Custom ship paint payment methods discussion thread
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lexmana
#41 - 2012-02-27 22:01:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Ranger 1 wrote:
I fully acknowledge your point, but do you see how easily this could be implimented in a way that stiumulates the existing economy

If done right it could work but the danger is with the ease it can be done horribly wrong. What worries me is that every spending of AUR on something that can be made by players is taking income away from the player driven economy. That means that AUR spending should be kept low for good economic health - but then there is this thing called greed ...
ApophisXP
Sadistic Retribution
Sadistic Empire
#42 - 2012-02-27 22:06:54 UTC
Alliance/Corp Logo's should be done via corp fees. Corp pays licence etc to have it displayed.

Color changes though should be modular per ship. It can be destroyed and can be looted.
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
#43 - 2012-02-27 22:09:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Azorria
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Stabs McShiv wrote:
Going to snip this in the bud right now your claim that ship skins would require extra art team time is flat out wrong.
T2 hulls do not have different textures from the T1 hull the engine renders them differently no one has to remap these objects. The extra polys for the extra bits on the hull e.g the engines on the enyo have to be but that is not the paint job that was the point of the trinity upgrade.

You can change the colour of your ships right now it just changes every ship in the game. All ccp has to do is have a ship painter option in the character editor tool and have a option to turn custom paint schemes off when tidi turns on.

no isk, no aur, no industry hell just look at the AT ships the methods are already in the client.

Did I mention extra art team somewhere? It could be only one guy or someone working outside CCP.

Anyway... giving people ability to use some kind of ship painter and transferring data over to other clients would end up to wtf pink zombie lime green zebra rainbow rifters colouring the jita undock and giving some serious realism boost to the game. This is the reason why only pre made CCP approved paint jobs should ever end up to the game.

Each custom paint job needs plenty of love before it is ready to be released. Each ship hull will need at least one and most hulls could probably use several paint jobs to choose from. If this doesn't put any load to CCP's main art team, I wonder will these appear from thin air?

edit:
Besides... it causes much less communications load for server to receive/send "here goes kick a55 rifter wearing pre made ship skin 0532" than "here goes rifter wearing random ship skin where {long list of custom definitions and colour codes but still without ability to use actual custom images on textures}"

You're both right, there are things called .red files that basically modify an existing texture (new colours, stripes, ect.) but these are stored client side and, even though they are much smaller than actual textures, are probably to big to handle server side.

As far as distribution of ship skins, I think it should be done BPC style through a mix of faction/deadspace/officer drops, LP stores, and the NEX (each method with unique skins, all tradable via contracts/market). Ideally alliances should be able to create custom skins via a T'amber style interface (limited to be in keeping with the EVE art style - and which the CCP art people would probably like to have anyway if they have to create hundreds of new skins - again - P), and be able to submit them like alliance logos (could cost lots of ISK to prevent people spamming the system). These alliance skins should be available to alliance members by default (no BPC required) but still cost ISK to use.

On a side note, to people who are against the NEX, just think of it as another OPTIONAL (as in don't like it, don't use it - duh) way to use PLEX, I don't hear people up in arms about being able to use them for char transfers, or fanfest (though NEX prices do need fixing).

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#44 - 2012-02-27 22:25:39 UTC
Lexmana wrote:

Except that when you buy something with ISK you feed another players in-game business.
When you buy something with AUR you only feed CCPs business.


And when you buy something with AUR and sell it on the open market? You know...like happens with PLEX.

Lexmana wrote:
I can't see how AUR is compatible with a player driven market at all, unless you would change it completely and enable a player to pay another player with AUR for goods/services.


That's because you have an angry narrow view of the big picture. Try opening your mind a little.

Mr Epeen Cool
Lexmana
#45 - 2012-02-27 22:28:57 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Lexmana wrote:

Except that when you buy something with ISK you feed another players in-game business.
When you buy something with AUR you only feed CCPs business.


And when you buy something with AUR and sell it on the open market? You know...like happens with PLEX.

Lexmana wrote:
I can't see how AUR is compatible with a player driven market at all, unless you would change it completely and enable a player to pay another player with AUR for goods/services.


That's because you have an angry narrow view of the big picture. Try opening your mind a little.

Mr Epeen Cool

Yeah, lets just all sit in station trading NEX items. That will be fun. Try open up your thinking a little.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#46 - 2012-02-27 22:34:26 UTC
Lexmana wrote:

Yeah, lets just all sit in station trading NEX items. That will be fun. Try open up your thinking a little.


Whether you want it in the sandbox or not, station trading is a big part of the game. Don't be so judgmental.

Mr Epeen Cool
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
#47 - 2012-02-27 22:35:41 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Lexmana wrote:

Except that when you buy something with ISK you feed another players in-game business.
When you buy something with AUR you only feed CCPs business.


And when you buy something with AUR and sell it on the open market? You know...like happens with PLEX.

Lexmana wrote:
I can't see how AUR is compatible with a player driven market at all, unless you would change it completely and enable a player to pay another player with AUR for goods/services.


That's because you have an angry narrow view of the big picture. Try opening your mind a little.

Mr Epeen Cool

Yeah, lets just all sit in station trading NEX items. That will be fun. Try open up your thinking a little.

It will be (for some at any rate) if/when CCP adds some customisable stuff to the NEX (as was the plan).

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice.
Valei Khurelem
#48 - 2012-02-28 12:34:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
Quote:
I disagree mainly because most services have room for pay for extra quality.


The problem is though you are making the assumption that games companies are actually putting more effort into these DLCs and micro-transactions, the fact is, for the vast majority of these releases and micro-transaction deals are done with minimal effort. In some cases ( particularly with F2P ) all it is is an artist and programmer doing a quick sketch and then the programmer putting in silly overpowered stats for it which the player pays money for.

My personal favourite is the recent blood pack DLC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YMos621dGQ all they've done is added blood pack textures ( which frankly they probably had already coded in but had to take out for rating reasons ) and actually go around charging people 0.99 for it!

While it may not add up to a lot Call of Duty has proven that buying the original game and then shipping DLCs and map packs for it add up to far more than if they had shipped all the DLCs together as an expansion or just with the full game. The people who support DLCs and micro-transaction in my opinion must be the same people who actually think that supermarket special offers get you a good deal!

Not only are game developers ripping you off with this scheme but they're doing it without actually putting in any effort! At least when Bethesda release a game like Skyrim you know you can just get it fixed up with mods and then it'll be fantastic.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#49 - 2012-02-28 12:54:36 UTC
Ciar Meara wrote:
No Aurum/Nex

Roime wrote:
Internet spaceship paintjobs of my dreams:

- designing paintjobs would require skills to be trained
- with cheap, low level skills you could just do one-time designs on your own ships
- with expensive, advanced hi-multiplier skills you could save designs into limited run "paintjob blueprints" to be sold on the market, paintjob runs to be defined by your skill level
- every blueprint would require an npc item, some sort of "ship painter license"
- applying paintjob requires the BP and paint, which is manufactured from gases from new lowsec ladar sites
- every time a blueprint job would be applied to a ship, player would pay a small fee to CONCORD
- no repainting
- paintjob value would be included in killmails
- designing custom paintjobs should have a similar interface like avatar creator (as demonstrated by T'Amber)

- corp and alliance logos would require stupidly high skills and have considerable costs

All ISK transactions. Introduce 7-day Micro-PLEXES, profit.


tl:dr; sink ISKies, give indies new goodies and a tiny trinkle of new in lowsec.


+ standings based (Concord, sarum family, Thukker tribe) based paints earned through Missions, Faction warfare, Incursions, LP store and affect your reception by other factions/races.

change: every time a blueprint job would be applied to a ship, player would pay a small fee to CONCORD Amarr empire, minmatar republic, caldari state, gallente federation.

+ every time a blueprint job would be applied to a ship, the designer would would get a fraction of that small fee. (royalties)

PS: (nano)Paints ingredients could also me manufactured through PI, made in station in ambulation like "paintshops".
(some ingredients would have to be obtained somewhere else (rare))


Yeah, sounds even better. My idea is obviously not polished or complete, just tossing it out here.

About the AUR/ISK issue: I used to support paint jobs in NeX Store, there was an older thread where I think I declared that I will pay AUR, ISK, EUR, PLEX, earned stolen or forged to get custom paints on my spaceships - I want that feature badly. It's my #1 feature wish by a massive margin, and I can't believe every spaceship in EVE's distant future looks exactly the same.

But Jade Constantine spoke well for the importance of not missing this chance to improve the player-driven sandbox with a cool new branch of industry, and I totally agree now, and boycott the NeX Store for not selling player-made items. Improving the game is the best long-term solution to bring more players in, and keeping the old ones, not making the game more expensive.

Successfully combining player (human) creativity talent with game economics would also be :awesome: on the game industry level.

AUR is a way to monitor player expenditures, but transactions are logged in the db anyway, so kind of a moot point really.

.
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#50 - 2012-02-28 14:10:49 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Valei Khurelem wrote:
The nex store and micro-transactions shouldn't exist in a game we are already paying full price and a subscription for, it should purely be an ISK sink if it should cost anything.

I disagree mainly because most services have room for pay for extra quality. Obviously you have to be really careful not to go too far with this. Like it would be wrong to charge extra for additional missions or actual content. However purely visual content like custom paint jobs falls to this category.

We got to remember that making (several) custom paint jobs for every ship type is huge amount of work. Personally I don't give a bulls crap about how my ship looks and would not be willing to see my subscription fees ending to such development. However I've seen many who think just the opposite.

This is one of the best examples of product where AUR - pay for extra - should and could be used. The NEX store purchases should fund the salaries of NEW graphics artists assigned to this service.

Valei can't post without whining...
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#51 - 2012-02-28 15:31:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Severide
Wacktopia wrote:
X Why do custom skins need to be in the NeX store at all?

XWhy cannot CCP just junk the NeX store?

XWhy must we go over this stuff again and AGAIN AND AGAIN!?

Geez quit whining. Some people like this stuff...
LittleTerror
Stygian Systems
#52 - 2012-02-28 15:38:17 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
The nex store and micro-transactions shouldn't exist in a game we are already paying full price and a subscription for, it should purely be an ISK sink if it should cost anything. People who buy into DLCs or Micro-transactions when they have already paid full price are suckers and they deserve to lose all their money.


This
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
#53 - 2012-02-28 15:38:49 UTC
I think custom paint jobs in NEX store in the form of BPCs is the least of all evils.

Here is the reason:
People want custom paint jobs. But you cant have playerbase create them on their whim. You would end up with rainbow rifters and svastika covered rokhs. So you have two options. Have a team working on them or have a team evaluating player submitted ideas. In either way you have to pay them.

Now you have two options how to pay them. Either divert part of your current income from any current task to this new team or find a new income source for them. The first option is more evil as you either release only handful of new skins per expansion or divert a lot of work from other parts of the game. Hence best solution is having paintjobs pay for themselves in NEX store.

How thsi is handled ingame is different story. Making them require AUR and ISK maybe also some skills and material to be applied would be probably the most preferable way.
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#54 - 2012-02-28 15:44:10 UTC
And then there is the things not mentioned yet.

How long would out ships be out of commission to let the paint dry and cure? Would they use Acrylic or Polyurethane Enamel? Would we have to drop our ships off at a paint station or sit in line?

Details, details...
Rixiu
PonyTek
#55 - 2012-02-28 16:46:38 UTC
Jumping on the nex-store should be dumped and all ingame content be made by players train. It's a sandbox MMO ffs.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-02-28 16:54:58 UTC
I'm all for corp/alliance and CCP created skins/logos and i wouldn't have a problem with using AUR to pay for them providing they change the system so that we can transfer AUR to other players.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Valei Khurelem
#57 - 2012-02-28 17:03:09 UTC
Quote:
Valei can't post without whining...


If you want to pay stupid amounts of money for bits of a product rather than the full thing for half the price, be my guest.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
#58 - 2012-02-28 18:04:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Azorria
Valei Khurelem wrote:
Quote:
Valei can't post without whining...


If you want to pay stupid amounts of money for bits of a product rather than the full thing for half the price, be my guest.

Nah, but I'm fine with other people paying money it. (via PLEX off of the market)

In the end it all works out good for everyone involved, CCP gets their paychecks, the guy who bought the PLEX with real money gets his ISK, and I get my shiny things for ISK bought AUR.

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice.
Terazul
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2012-02-28 18:57:30 UTC
Quoting my own post because I swear we've done this already:
Terazul wrote:
I believe this is something that absolutely should have been in the game since launch.

I also support outlandish colors and logos. I mean, we're capsuleers - who the hell is gonna 'regulate' what kinds of colors we can paint our ships? Especially for people who live completely outside of Empire borders, there's no reason they can't color their ships pink or purple if they damn well feel like it.

I think the Aurum system should be scrapped as it literally breaks the game lore (lol @ pair of pants costing more than a goddamn battleship), with customization options being bought with isk or manufactured like almost everything else is (so you can have things like rare paints with unique material properties like iridescent and pearlescent paints). In fact, I think it's kind of moronic that CCP even considered Aurum viable to begin with - what's wrong with people wanting to buy plex for ISK? Why add another currency to the mix? Having everything cost some amount of isk (or minerals, or salvage, or whatever) just makes a lot more sense.



Also, on another note, people worried about swastika-covered ships and penis stickers need to realize that they don't need to go whole-hog APB-levels of customization here, and that many of us who do want customization just want SOME customization, more than we have right now.

Also, the way the system currently works, people can only change the colors and the corporation logos on them anyways - there's no way to do custom patterns and shapes unless CCP does a V4 specifically for this.
Stabs McShiv
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2012-02-28 21:18:54 UTC

Terazul is dead right about swastika-covered ships.

Just have it as a alliance/corp perk along with the logo for a monthly isk fee you want a different colored ship get out of a npc corp.

A perk for the vain and a isk sink with no more cost to ccp after the initial implementation.
Previous page123