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Micro Transactions - Aye or Nay?
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#21 - 2012-02-27 16:14:06 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Not just no, **** no.

A cash shop has no place in a subscription game, and CCP should be ashamed for trying to do it in EVE.




Tell that to World of Warcraft, Final fantasy 14 and just about every subscription mmo out there today.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#22 - 2012-02-27 16:18:18 UTC
Wacktopia wrote:
It's less about the "Yes or No" and more about the "How".
While I don't really agree with the details listed, I agree with this general statement.

MT that in no way affects the game (including not touching the market in any way)? Sure. Knock yourselves out.
MT that breaks, subverts, circumvents, obsoletes or in some other way affects gameplay? **** no.

The problem with MT in EVE is the uniquely integrated and interdependent universe CCP has created, and as an unfortunate side-effect (for their business development efforts that is) this means that the argument “don't use it if you don't like it” does not hold water — what other people do directly affects me, no matter how much “it's just for their personal use” anything supposedly is. So as the wacko says, yes or no all comes down to “how”.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-02-27 16:21:31 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:
Cyprus Black wrote:
Micro transactions aren't a simple yes/no thing. It depends on whats being sold and at what price. Currently the stuff we have now is anything but "micro".

If MT can be done right then yes I'm for it. But CCP has already proven that they don't know anything about MT nor how a functioning MT system works.


Wrong, I'm talking about the very concept of having MT in a PtP game. I don't like paying extra for anything in a game I'm already paying for, be it vanity or not.

Since PLEX is MT in itself and everything in the NeX store is able to be purchased using both PLEX and ISK your entire point and this thread are moot. Everything I bought on the NeX I got from the market with ISK. If I really cared to I would buy a PLEX with ISK and convert it to AUR for NeX items. You have the option...you don't HAVE to use your real money for anything. That is the difference with how CCP is running MT and every other game out there. It doesn't even compare. PLEX has always been a form of MT and nothing has changed at all with the introduction of the NeX store and anything that is in it.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Brotha Umad
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-02-27 16:22:02 UTC
As long as it stays superficial with monocles and barbie stuff, yay.
Otherwise hell nay.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#25 - 2012-02-27 16:53:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Miss Whippy wrote:
Wacktopia wrote:
It's less about the "Yes or No" and more about the "How".

MT kind of already exists through the PLEX purchasing system. The potential problems/questions I have with MTs are...

- Will you be able to buy FiS things through NeX that you cannot get anywhere else?
- Will those "things" be limited to blue-prints so they are actually manufactured outside of NeX?
- Will the NeX items be destroy-on-death? I.e will a panted ship remain painted for you or will you need to re-paint it?
- Will the items you can buy ever enhance your ship or character in space? :-(

In general I don't want to see anything else going into the NeX at all but we'll see where the freight train of whoever is behind the mess of NeX takes us NeXt.


I don't regard Plexes as MT, for the simple reason that I STILL HAVE FULL ACCESS TO THE GAME WITHOUT SELLING PLEX.

Apologies for the caps, but there is a difference and I wish people would stop suggesting that Aurum and Plex are one and the same thing.


You really need to get it through your head that the only difference between PLEX and AUR is that AUR is vanity item specific, and more granular.

You can purchase either with cash or with ISK.

So yes, continue with MT in EVE... giving people the choice of buying items with in game currency or with cash, whichever suits them best.

Where the MT "OPTION" plus subscription fee model does not work is when you have some items ONLY available with cash... which is exactly why DUST does not charge a subscription fee.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Sieges
#26 - 2012-02-27 17:00:46 UTC
No.
Bischopt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-02-27 17:04:32 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Not just no, **** no.

A cash shop has no place in a subscription game, and CCP should be ashamed for trying to do it in EVE.



This.
Vetrox Satria
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-02-27 17:37:33 UTC
If micro transactions are for vanity items skins for ships etc then whats the issue? Plex is a microtransaction for isk so you dont approve of this either i assume

IRL I flaunt my cash by buying lots of expensive clothes to make everyone else shut the hell up cos they're dressed in crap. It doesnt hurt anyone, they still get to walk around hiding their junk the same as me...i just look better.

You dont want micro transactions? then dont ******* use them nub cake. It wont hurt you, people with a pink drake wont be any better off than you other than they will have a pink drake with a black viper stripe down the middle and their guns will glow purple and the ships trail will be a rainbow.
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-02-27 17:40:12 UTC
Vetrox Satria wrote:
If micro transactions are for vanity items skins for ships etc then whats the issue? Plex is a microtransaction for isk so you dont approve of this either i assume

IRL I flaunt my cash by buying lots of expensive clothes to make everyone else shut the hell up cos they're dressed in crap. It doesnt hurt anyone, they still get to walk around hiding their junk the same as me...i just look better.

You dont want micro transactions? then dont ******* use them nub cake. It wont hurt you, people with a pink drake wont be any better off than you other than they will have a pink drake with a black viper stripe down the middle and their guns will glow purple and the ships trail will be a rainbow.


Explain why we need Aurum at all then Barbie fanboy.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-02-27 17:40:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Vetrox Satria wrote:
people with a pink drake wont be any better off than you other than they will have a pink drake with a black viper stripe down the middle and their guns will glow purple and the ships trail will be a rainbow.

God yes! Rainbow trails ftw!
Miss Whippy wrote:
[quote=Vetrox Satria]
Explain why we need Aurum at all then Barbie fanboy.

First explain why you cannot understand the simple fact that MT's have been in the game for a very long time in the form of PLEX and will never change. It hasn't hurt EvE and has in fact helped immensely.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Vetrox Satria
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-02-27 17:45:25 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:
Vetrox Satria wrote:
If micro transactions are for vanity items skins for ships etc then whats the issue? Plex is a microtransaction for isk so you dont approve of this either i assume

IRL I flaunt my cash by buying lots of expensive clothes to make everyone else shut the hell up cos they're dressed in crap. It doesnt hurt anyone, they still get to walk around hiding their junk the same as me...i just look better.

You dont want micro transactions? then dont ******* use them nub cake. It wont hurt you, people with a pink drake wont be any better off than you other than they will have a pink drake with a black viper stripe down the middle and their guns will glow purple and the ships trail will be a rainbow.


Explain why we need MT at all fanboy.


Did you even read my post? Guess not cos you just want to rage at the machine.

I want to look different...MT allows me to do this.

Like i said IRL i pay extra money to look different, why shouldnt I do it in a video game...and also

Vetrox Satria wrote:
It wont hurt you


^^this. (totally just quoted myself awwwww yeya) If MT allows you to own better items that give you a strategic advantage in game then I am hands down against that on a game I pay for so im with you in that sense but If some poor sap (like me) wants to waste a bajillion £$ on a virtual hat for his virtual avatar then let him chuck his money at it. Just remember...the more money we hurl at the develpers, the more we will get in return.
Lina Alar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2012-02-27 18:33:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Lina Alar
Do we want vanity items?
Yes.

Should they appear out of thin air in the Eve economy?
No.

Should they be manufactured by players using blueprints or similar mechanisms?
Yes.

Should they be destructible like normal items?
Yes.

How should we be able to pay for them?
ISK^h^h^h AUR.

Should there be a group of developers producing vanity items?
Yes.

Should this group be given priority over staffing for game mechanics, balance, general FiS / trade gameplay?
NO.

What else should we do?
Provide a way for users to submit their own vanity customizations for inclusion in the game. (Really tough for an MMO, as opposed to a single-player game like Skyrim, but here's an opportunity to pioneer as opposed to "everyone else has a vanity shop so...")

An explanation of Eve socialization: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTbgvYPVdXE

Lick with your main™
Vetrox Satria
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-02-27 18:44:41 UTC
Lina Alar wrote:

How should we be able to pay for them?
ISK.



You do know you can buy the vanity items with isk right? (that statement sounded alot more condesending (again I cant spell) than i want it too sorry)

ATM i dont think there are enough vanity items to warrant any arguments at all. I know it would take quite a while (although there is now a team dedicated to it) but I would like to see 1000's of items with 100k's of combinations of clothes.

I dont think players would want to produce them I know I would'nt bother making thousands of shirts.

Still unsure on the idea of them being destructable...but that said it would help the people manufacturing it.

Maybe all but the best of items should be able to be bought with iskies and save things like faction clothing (I would love to be a caldari state beurocrat (cant spell) with a suit) should just be on the Nex and only availible to the wealthiest of RPers. Remember isk = plex and plex = aur.
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2012-02-27 18:47:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
As cosmetic additions who am I to judge how someone would spend their money or isk, especially if it makes them happy.

It's up to CCP to decide if time invested towards such efforts is in the best interests of the game. And making the assumption it doesn't effect other issues or take focus away from other things adjudged to be more important to the game. However, I can see it as being possible for it to have it's own seperate buisness model as contributing to revenue for it's development, so the compartmentalisation that it can co-exist with FiS seems feasible to me.

Definately no support for a pay to win model (e.g. gold ammo). (outside of game time just to stop the accuracy trolls Roll )

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-02-27 19:00:24 UTC
Aye.

Everything in the NeX store can be bought with isk one way or they other
and as long as there are no stat changing items or "gold ammo" in the
NeX that you cant get any other way, it's a good system.

Next thing they need to add to the NeX is smaller blocks of game time,
as well as the other cloths that are finished already, hopefully in one of
the next patches.

If you want a good indication of how many people accept the NeX and
Aurum in general, look at how many people took the tokens for the
Christmas gift.
Lina Alar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-02-27 19:04:55 UTC
Vetrox Satria wrote:
Lina Alar wrote:

How should we be able to pay for them?
ISK.



You do know you can buy the vanity items with isk right? (that statement sounded alot more condesending (again I cant spell) than i want it too sorry)

ATM i dont think there are enough vanity items to warrant any arguments at all. I know it would take quite a while (although there is now a team dedicated to it) but I would like to see 1000's of items with 100k's of combinations of clothes.

I dont think players would want to produce them I know I would'nt bother making thousands of shirts.

Still unsure on the idea of them being destructable...but that said it would help the people manufacturing it.

Maybe all but the best of items should be able to be bought with iskies and save things like faction clothing (I would love to be a caldari state beurocrat (cant spell) with a suit) should just be on the Nex and only availible to the wealthiest of RPers. Remember isk = plex and plex = aur.

Agreed. By that flat statement I meant payment in the store using ISK, and the removal of Aurum. Grey Stormshadow pointed out in another thread that doing so would make a more direct connection between subscription fees and funding of vanity items, which I have to agree is probably a bad idea. After considering that, I probably do need to change that answer to AUR.

An explanation of Eve socialization: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTbgvYPVdXE

Lick with your main™
Solhild
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-02-27 19:17:47 UTC
No (PLEX/Isk system works fine - just charge more isk for stuff and CCP can materialise the isk to buy PLEX if prices get out of hand)
Solhild
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-02-27 19:19:25 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Wacktopia wrote:
It's less about the "Yes or No" and more about the "How".
While I don't really agree with the details listed, I agree with this general statement.

MT that in no way affects the game (including not touching the market in any way)? Sure. Knock yourselves out.
MT that breaks, subverts, circumvents, obsoletes or in some other way affects gameplay? **** no.

The problem with MT in EVE is the uniquely integrated and interdependent universe CCP has created, and as an unfortunate side-effect (for their business development efforts that is) this means that the argument “don't use it if you don't like it” does not hold water — what other people do directly affects me, no matter how much “it's just for their personal use” anything supposedly is. So as the wacko says, yes or no all comes down to “how”.


How = PLEX and break it into micro components called isk Big smile
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#39 - 2012-02-27 19:53:17 UTC
Solhild wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Wacktopia wrote:
It's less about the "Yes or No" and more about the "How".
While I don't really agree with the details listed, I agree with this general statement.

MT that in no way affects the game (including not touching the market in any way)? Sure. Knock yourselves out.
MT that breaks, subverts, circumvents, obsoletes or in some other way affects gameplay? **** no.

The problem with MT in EVE is the uniquely integrated and interdependent universe CCP has created, and as an unfortunate side-effect (for their business development efforts that is) this means that the argument “don't use it if you don't like it” does not hold water — what other people do directly affects me, no matter how much “it's just for their personal use” anything supposedly is. So as the wacko says, yes or no all comes down to “how”.


How = PLEX and break it into micro components called isk Big smile


Or broken down into micro components called AUR, which is a currency that will also be used in DUST.

I believe this latter point is part of the reason why CCP is reluctant to just go with an ISK only system.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-02-27 19:55:53 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Solhild wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Wacktopia wrote:
It's less about the "Yes or No" and more about the "How".
While I don't really agree with the details listed, I agree with this general statement.

MT that in no way affects the game (including not touching the market in any way)? Sure. Knock yourselves out.
MT that breaks, subverts, circumvents, obsoletes or in some other way affects gameplay? **** no.

The problem with MT in EVE is the uniquely integrated and interdependent universe CCP has created, and as an unfortunate side-effect (for their business development efforts that is) this means that the argument “don't use it if you don't like it” does not hold water — what other people do directly affects me, no matter how much “it's just for their personal use” anything supposedly is. So as the wacko says, yes or no all comes down to “how”.


How = PLEX and break it into micro components called isk Big smile


Or broken down into micro components called AUR, which is a currency that will also be used in DUST.

I believe this latter point is part of the reason why CCP is reluctant to just go with an ISK only system.

Yup. Likely it wasn't only a decision by CCP in that regard. Sony probably had some say in the matter as well. It is how companies make money. There is no harm in it. It really doesn't effect you at all if you just don't use it. It isn't forced on you by any means.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
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