Science & Industry

Covetor has always been a priority hisec target because it can be expected to drop strips like a hulk and is always easier to kill, and because the fit is relatively expensive compared to the hull, its not that well covered by insurance anyway.

sure, but 1 hulk costs like 9-10 covetor so you won't shed too many tears if you're so easy to get ganked. Also, if you are not _that_ serious about mining to have an Hulk fitted for max yeld, then you don't need that 10-20% extra yeld that an Hulk can give you more than a Covetor. I mean: if you don't use survey scanner, if you solo mine, if you afk mine, if you get no boost, then you definitely don't need an Hulk at all.

That's my way at least, then.... each to his own ;)

Just search Orca kills on the larger boards. You will find plenty.

Sorry you have Search Fail Ability running strong in you.

Tip.

Put a damage control on an orca. Go ahead... see what happens.

Also - 3 battleships is not 5 battleships.

Also -



which is - 2400/7.5 ... 320 DPS... pretty poor for a gank setup as a matter of fact.




That one really made me laugh. Thanks.

Stop telling us bullshit.

First it have been 3 Apocs. Not it is 5 Apocs and even 5 Apocs will not break my simple (!) Cargo-fitted Orca, which has one medium slott occupied with an 100MN Microwarpdrive and only 3 Shield Hardeners / Invul and above 90k EHP basically and without implants / fleet! And you tell me lieing it just show me you have never fitted an Orca!

[Orca]
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II

Survey Scanner II / 100MN MWD
Invulnerability Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II

Small Tractor Beam II
Mindlink
Mindlink

Large Cargohold Optimization I / Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Cargohold Optimization I
Large Cargohold Optimization I

= 99k EHP on my Aura Fitting Tool and I know it's still much above 90k ingame!

Exchange Survey Scanner II with a Large Shield Extender II and you have slightly above 100k EHP without loosing Cargo.

I don't know why somebody should fit anything else than shield hardeners / amplifiers / invulnerability fields in medium slots? If he do so he deserves to get blown out of his Orca!

EDIT: As I still could not find a kill like you mentioned on the killboards I have checked the killboard from Hulkageddon IV! There have been killed (only!) 6 Orcas. 2 or 3 of them in 0.0 or low, so that doesn't count. The rest had nearly no or insufficient hardeners fitted and on each of those killmails have been enough firepower from a lot of BSs, but I have not found Smarty Apocs. If they would be so great to destroy an Orca and 3 .... errrh sorry ... since a few minutes it is 5 Apocs would have been used a lot more often I guess, because a fleet of 5 Smarty Apocs is easy to form.

Please show me a proof of your 5 Smartbomb Apocs killing a standard Orca like my one. I did not fail in searching through the killboards. You just have no idea about what you are talking in this case!

Okay, I have not been in an Orca for a while and not sure on what fits I actually used, but I pulled up some of my fits in EFT, and not a single one does NOT have a DCUII in one of the lows. Most have 2 invulns and a lg. extender as the basic tank (with a 100MN AB filling the mids). EFT has around 180k+ EHP for these fits. If you take out the Expanded Cargohold, you pop up over 200k.

My actual tank would have been better, since I have a few random shield implants and would have been in a fleet.

Edit: The only way I can get down to 50k EHP (or even close at ~51k EHP) is with a zero skill character in EFT. With all level Vs and NO additional tank and MAX cargo expanders/rigs, I get 66k w/o fleet and somewhat more when fleeting.

I doubt many people don't have at least Mechanic IV, Hull upgrades IV, and Shield Management IV before getting in an Orca. With that as the only skills, you would get 62k EHP.

Long ago, I used to fly a Hulk. Haven't undocked it in years now and I've done my share of suicide ganks.

It's impossible to fit a Hulk to survive a suicide gank - you're in an expensive non-combat ship that must sit still for hours at a time to do its job. A gank catalyst does almost 700 DPS for about 6M ISK (net, assuming 50% module recovery) and an orca piloted by an alt with good sec. status can carry over 30 of them. One of these will kill most Hulks in 0.7 and down, two will kill even the most strongly tanked hulk. You can move up to a higher security system, but then you have to deal with 1400mm tornados loaded with Quake which can do upwards of 13K volley.

Your best defense is to pay attention, recognize when you're being set up, and know what the gankers are after so as to present yourself as an unattractive target.

You don't have to belt mine. A trick that was common years ago that I haven't heard much about lately was to run missions until you got one that spawned a lot of Veldspar (there's a few missions that spawn other ore types but Veldspar is by far the most common), then just mine there and don't turn in the mission. This takes you out of the belts and away from the ganks for the most part.

Also, if you are belt mining and you see some noob park on top of you in a frigate, there's a good chance said frigate is providing a warp in for the gank(ers) and you should leave.

A lot of gankers gank to pad their killboard stats. If you keep drones out, they'll stay from you because they don't want a lossmail. Use Hobgoblins on the rats, when there are no rats keep out ECM drones, if you get ganked anyway you may get lucky and get a jam off.

Some gankers gank for money. If you're mining with a fancy faction mods ]like this guy ( http://tinyurl.com/7bedor2 ) you might as well paint a giant bulls-eye on the side of your ship. Save the fancy stuff for nullsec.

And, a lot of people gank because they're bored, it's easy, it doesn't cost very much (12M ISK for a gank catalyst is pocket change for most people who've been playing this game at least a year), and it's a reliable source of tears. There's nothing you can do to deter these people, other than not to run into them in the first place, see above.

/me sighs


A single full gank talos gives me 1450 DPS.

Now there IS a reason why you would use smartbombing BS for ganks - and that's to hit massed ships. If you have 20 ships sitting in a spot ganking through smartbombs makes sense because of the AOE situation.

Looking at your numbers, I'd say that when you have 6 or more orcas within the range of the smartbombs you start to break even.

Looking at fluffi's numbers (which are closer to my own) you'd need to have something like 12 orcas together to make it worthwhile.

Thing is...

You don't see 12 orca fleets sitting waiting to be smartbombed in highsec. You don't even see 6 orca fleets doing that.

So to gank a single orca - you go for raw DPS - Talos or dessies or whatever.

To gank a mining fleet - you might use smartbombing BS but ONLY if they are clustered and you got a lot of them. This has happened before quite successfully iirc but it was mostly hulks, not orcas which were hit.

So please Krix, - I'm trying to help you because even though you systematically dig your own grave in the forums time and again I believe that somewhere down there, you have good intentions. You just have to take a step back and be a little more self critical because at times, the information which you provide, is less than accurate and can mislead some people.

I mine with an hulk, a covetor and an hauler, so let me post again.

Now, of course the difference between an hulk and a covetor is not only that 9% but I was answering to someone saying: "fit a DCU instead of a MLU, you'll loose only 9% so it's cool" which imho is..... stupid? yup, bullshit really.

The rest of the discussion _for me_ is only to be reduced into this: you don't keep your eyes on your ships while mining? Then you are a noob and it's better if you don't fly a 200M worth ship, most of all it's not worth to put on that ship another 50-100-100000000000 M worth fitting. Live your noob life in peace and fly a covetor.

Shell I draw a picture or is it clear enough?

Last but not least: I know there are different kind of gankers, and the serious ones will kill you sooner or later, but again: flying an hulk means knowing that and using the proper countermeasures. If you have no clue about how to prevent being ganked by _serious gankers_ do you know which ship I'm suggesting you to use instead of the hulk? Yeah I guess you know.