Missions & Complexes

Perhaps it could be a free-for-all of sorts, with everyone attempting to form fleets that contest for the MOM with only the TIME being set in stone. In other words, all communities could agree to not take the gate before a specified time, and all else is fair game. Pilots could join whatever fleet they wished and we could all have fun in a massive contest. Of course this means ISN fleets will almost certainly "win" the MOM contest every time because they have the shiny ships, T2/faction ammo, more contest experience, more player/character skills, etc. So this solution is a bit unfair in a way, but, speaking for myself I really do not CARE who "wins" the MOM as long as it goes down as late as possible. This would also be an opportunity for ISN to demonstrate to the other incursion pilots what ISN is all about....winning fleets.... and encourages pilots to aspire to the ISN level. This was also brought up in the meeting and it is a valid point. I would rather ISN demonstrate its superiority during the MOM sites as opposed to rolling in randomly to contest TVP HQ fleets which will only cause resentment toward ISN. If ISN wanted to really show their stuff, they could even give the competing fleet(s) a head start, delaying as long as they dare before taking the gate. What would demonstrate their DPS superiority more than allowing for a handicap? It would also make it a challenge and sporting instead of a predictable slaughter, much like a golf handicap.

Wouldn't be unfair a bit. Also this *is* how we're doing it at the moment. Whether TDF and TVP have an agreement between each other, that's up to them. Though actively giving them a handicap seems arbitrary, and I don't see a possible reason for this.

You said "demonstrating DPS superiority". As it has been mentioned, by many ISN pilots - while we do agree that we might have started doing that to TVP sort of (by actively scouting and seeking those contests we were sure we would win), and *maybe* it was justified to an extent at the time ....

.... but we are done with it. All that remains is real contests - which is fighting for the isk (including the mom loot).

Any "handicapping" or talking about "fairness" is just nonsensical - especially in the sense that the only meaningful difference from the kundalini manifest from other sites is the mothership loot. Coincidentally, it's also the very same thing, that the pilots in TVP/TDF/Others don't get to see anyway. If it's just about the isk from that site, there's no need to do that then. If you knew there was a stronger fleet around, that would actively do this, and you'd have no chance of contesting it - then you might as well farm isk in regular sites instead in the meantime. This is what ISN for example has been doing for a long time (maybe for less of a "chance" to contest, but more for a lack of interest back then) - but this has changed now.

It still makes no real difference to non-ISN pilots in the end, as they can make the same if not more isk either way, and they don't get to see loot anyway - and for any existing replacement funds - questions about the actual existence completely aside - they can be filled with direct donations anyway. Or you can charity auction pieces of Tritanium at horrendous prices to keep filling that "fund" of yours after each incursion dies.


-- Weasel Juice on an alt. Didn't realize I was logged on to it.

So, man up and bet?

Actually, most TVP pilots who dislike ISN do so because of things like

THIS

and

THIS

...being spammed in incursion local, and then complaining about the "propaganda" put out by TVP leadership.

@ mocking what I said by reducing it to "yada yada yada" and then agreeing with most of it in the next line. Funny stuff! Not sure you quite grasp the whole concept of mockery.



How about a friendly wager then? I will take your bet, and you're gonna regret, cause I'm.... oh never mind. But seriously, 3 to 1 odds that I'm "not even an incursion runner?" It's a bet. Let's make the wager....3 billion ISK. If I am not an incursion runner, I will pay you 3 billion ISK. If I am, you will pay me 9 billion ISK. We'll deposit our funds with Chribba as the third party ISK holder and judge. I will submit my main's API to Chribba who will keep it confidential, check it, decide if I run incursions at all, and pay the winner.

So, man up and bet?

Yes there is. I have posted links to the mockery and propaganda spread by ISN. Can you provide us all links to the "lies" spread by TVP? Let's air out all of the laundry. However don't forget there is also a difference between "lies" and misunderstanding or opinions. Proof or GTFO as they say.

TVP has faced drama, contention, outright attacks, and bullying in the past. You're still standing. When ISN wants to take a site. Let them have it. Yes, your isk will hurt a bit, move on to the next site. Bullies are bullies. In high sec, you just ignore them. Move on to the next site, and do what you do best. Enjoy yourselves, regardless of what is going on. If you were in nullsec, I'd say burn them to the ground, chase them down and then do it again. But high sec is a different animal. Ignore them, and soon enough, they will be bored, realize their "fight" isn't getting them attention, and they'll go on to bullying someone else.

"On a personal level, that is where I am. I do not wish to be made to choose between the good people in ISN who are devoted to excellence, and the good people in TVP who are devoted to acceptance, and I should not have to. This is why people are posting with alts. No one wants to be seen as taking a side and be excluded from the other side, because we have friends on both sides. No one wants to burn bridges, and they shouldn't be forced to."

FAIR WARNING

ISN has been griefing the incursion community for a few months now. After waiting well over a year for incursion pilots to realize that their way is the "best way" to play Eve to no avail, they have begun a desperate "war" to force their way of running incursions on the incursion community and to exclude anyone not willing to do it their way. They have joined fleets run by other incursion groups with logi and intentionally let ships die, then posted videos of this to promote themselves. They have pre-loaded HQ sites with the intent of causing a hazard for other groups. They have waged a propoganda war, spreading lies and slandering some very good pilots in the incursion community. They have entered into negotiations in bad faith, never intending on coming to a mutally beneficial agreement in an attempt to dishearten community leaders. I have witnessed all of these things and waited patiently for them to grow bored, but alas they are easily amused.

ISN's goal is simply to control all of incursions and to force pilots to adhere to their strict (shiny/expensive) fitting guidelines. This of course excludes most newer pilots. While this is well within the Eve mentality of elitism, it is (imho) bad for the community and the game as a whole. For a very accurate description of ISN's leadership, see this post.

I am tired of waiting for someone to organize a resistance to this and so I have taken action on my own. I have a logi pilot (or 2) who is embedded within the ISN community. This pilot will fly for hours without incident and wait for a key member of ISN to be primaried at a particularly nasty time and then reps will be withheld (or just a bit "slow") with the goal of seeing that ship destroyed. This pilot has been successful already and will succeed again. I do not enjoy this style of play, but feel it is the most effective way to fight back against ISN's strategy, and sometimes fire must be fought with fire.

If you routinely fly with ISN, you are in danger of losing your ship because of this. While I will try to target ISN directors, officers, and those highly active on the griefing front, this is far from an exact science, and war being war, unintended casualties are unavoidable.

Are you an incursion pilot that is fed up with ISN's griefing, and want to help fight against their fascist agenda, there are quite a few things you can do:

1 - Infiltration and Sabotage as logistics. The most effective method is to infiltrate an ISN fleet with logistics and join me in sabotaging ISN's fleets by withholding or simply being a bit slow on shield repairs/capacitor requests. If you have already flown in ISN with logistics, and are tired of their new "direction", you are in a unique position to do something about it.

2 - Infiltration and Sabotage as DPS. Only fly DPS? Join an ISN fleet and subtly sabotage their efforts to run sites. Disconnecting, "forgetting" to get ammo, trolling comms, getting hung up on gates, shooting the wrong tags, "forgetting" to assign drones properly, asking for AFK time, etc. can all be done subtly enough to not raise suspicion while being very frustrating to their FCs.

3 - Wardecs. Got an anonymous alt and tons of incursion ISK you're not doing anything with? Get corporate management to 1 in a few minutes, start a corp, and place a wardec on an ISN griefer. This can cost as little as 50 mil. ISK. Look for targets that have been in a corporation with more than a few members for a good amount of time. This forces them to either drop a corp they enjoy being a member of, or spreading war aggression among ISN logis when they run sites. Get the alt in system when you see the decced ISN member so they must continually be on the lookout. If it is an alt with some PVP skills, you may be able to catch a logi with aggro at a gate or station after completing a site.

4 - Gank their OGB. You can hire mercs for this or scan their booster down, find a friend, and do the deed yourselves with only a couple of tier 3 BCs. Don't forget to bring a low-skill thrasher too and get their pod.

5 - Hunt their pods. A low-skill neutral alt in a thrasher or catalyst outside of the station ISN is staging from can often times find a juicy ISN pod undocking and pop it before they (or CONCORD) can react.

6 - Recruit from ISN Secondary. Put one toon in their channel, and recruit with a second toon. When you see someone new, be sure to let them know about your favorite incursion channel and tell them about what ISN has been doing. Are they having trouble getting into an ISN fleet because it is too restrictive or simply not running? I bet you know a place where they can find a fleet.

These are just a few ways you can help in the effort to fight back against ISN's griefing. I am sure that you can think of other ways become involved in this fight and take an active role in removing the cancerous mass that ISN's leadership has become. My goal is the harmonious cooperation of all incursion groups that we had before, with a fun sense of competition. But until ISN's leadership understands that cooperation is the only way to be successful, they will continue to grief and harass all other incursion groups. YOU are capable of causing change and influencing this struggle.

Any pilots wishing to coordinate efforts or donate resources that will be used against ISN are welcome to contact this character via Evemail. Any useful intel, known ISN officer alts, fleet chat logs, FRAPS of counter-ISN ops, are also very welcome. All submissions will remain completely anonymous unless otherwise specified. Videos and screen shots will be scrubbed of all identifying information before release.

I can not. Because almost everything happened either in the chat channels or in Teamspeak. I never bothered to save chat logs and on top of that I'm banned from TVP. Well, I can post one minor misinformation, but that's it.



Yes, this is not a lie, but misinformation. We didn't start the "fight". TVP managment did by popping every MOM as soon as the next High Sec Incursion spawned. The mockery and HQ contests were just reactions to TVP managment actions.

1. Read my post again.



2. TVP vs ISN is by no means a "standard conflict". So... what you suggested is not griefing, but contesting is? Okay.



3. If this is a stupid little drama, why did you bother to post in this thread and waste hundred of millions of ISK wardeccing ISN managment?



4. We never stopped making ISK.