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Science - Puzzle about Warp-Drive Technology
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Caroline Grace
Retrostellar Boulevard
#1 - 2012-02-26 09:57:56 UTC
Hello, scientific part of Summit.


I came here to search for technical answers about warp drive travelling, if I may. I have read lot of stuff about warp and stargate technology, yet I quite don't understand it in particular part. And that is warping through a planet.


First, something about warp drive is need to be said.


"When you activated your warp, the jump drive creates depleted vacuum by repeatedly ‘compressing’ vacuum between two polar discs, draining all energy neutrons and quarks out of it. A laser-locked field is then created to hold the ever-increasing depleted vacuum bubble until it has enveloped the whole ship. When that happens the ship is able to enter FTL speed."


That means in the moment of activating your FTL drive, you creates "a super empty bubble" which follows your ship until collapse. In space, all neutrons, dust and other stuff goes away, making possible vacuum to exist. But when you're warping through planet or any bigger "inside alive" object, your warp drive creates "a super empty bubble" just inside of it. For a super extreme short time, of course.


I don't understand how is it possible. Imagine to be on the planet side and in all of sudden, due to the course of spaceship, your body or city has "a super empty bubble" for a few seconds everywhere. How the molecules and neutrons knows to "come back to the original place" after the bubble is gone? Or how is it possible to "survive" this event for living organism in the first place?


I apology for probably not speaking in the right technical terms - I'm rather just a curious observer than actually scientist. But if anyone knows answer for this, it would be greatly appreciated.


Thank you, Summit!

I'm Caroline Grace, and this is my favorite musical on the Citadel.
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#2 - 2012-02-27 17:14:47 UTC
Caroline Grace wrote:
Hello, scientific part of Summit.


I came here to search for technical answers about warp drive travelling, if I may. I have read lot of stuff about warp and stargate technology, yet I quite don't understand it in particular part. And that is warping through a planet.


First, something about warp drive is need to be said.


"When you activated your warp, the jump drive creates depleted vacuum by repeatedly ‘compressing’ vacuum between two polar discs, draining all energy neutrons and quarks out of it. A laser-locked field is then created to hold the ever-increasing depleted vacuum bubble until it has enveloped the whole ship. When that happens the ship is able to enter FTL speed."


That means in the moment of activating your FTL drive, you creates "a super empty bubble" which follows your ship until collapse. In space, all neutrons, dust and other stuff goes away, making possible vacuum to exist. But when you're warping through planet or any bigger "inside alive" object, your warp drive creates "a super empty bubble" just inside of it. For a super extreme short time, of course.


I don't understand how is it possible. Imagine to be on the planet side and in all of sudden, due to the course of spaceship, your body or city has "a super empty bubble" for a few seconds everywhere. How the molecules and neutrons knows to "come back to the original place" after the bubble is gone? Or how is it possible to "survive" this event for living organism in the first place?


I apology for probably not speaking in the right technical terms - I'm rather just a curious observer than actually scientist. But if anyone knows answer for this, it would be greatly appreciated.


Thank you, Summit!


We covered this in some of my engineering extension courses during flight training. I'll see if I can recall what we talked about in class (it was a while ago).

The 'super-empty bubble' is only created to facilitate the 'jump-start' to FTL travel -- once the ship reaches warp, the reaction is self-sustaining due to the nature of the warp engine (among other physics gibberish that I never paid attention to). The 'warp tunnel' effect is just the visual representation of an extremely localized wormhole.

Since a wormhole is, essentially, shorter on the inside than it is on the outside, the ship doesn't actually go through the planet (what we see is just a sensor artifact), so the planet and its population isn't affected. The ship goes by a more direct route, going around the planet, and intervening space, by punching a 'shortcut' through the fabric of spacetime.

I think that was it, anyway. I'm not a scientist.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Caroline Grace
Retrostellar Boulevard
#3 - 2012-02-28 17:29:28 UTC
Quote:
We covered this in some of my engineering extension courses during flight training. I'll see if I can recall what we talked about in class (it was a while ago).

The 'super-empty bubble' is only created to facilitate the 'jump-start' to FTL travel -- once the ship reaches warp, the reaction is self-sustaining due to the nature of the warp engine (among other physics gibberish that I never paid attention to). The 'warp tunnel' effect is just the visual representation of an extremely localized wormhole.

Since a wormhole is, essentially, shorter on the inside than it is on the outside, the ship doesn't actually go through the planet (what we see is just a sensor artifact), so the planet and its population isn't affected. The ship goes by a more direct route, going around the planet, and intervening space, by punching a 'shortcut' through the fabric of spacetime.

I think that was it, anyway. I'm not a scientist.



I see! I think micro-wormhole which is created after ship reaches the warp is something I was missing. The visual represantion of travelling, though, was actually my first imagination how warp-drive works. But after reading about "an empty bubble" technicalities I lost the track. Thank you Astrid, for clear it up for me!


And as I'm still interested in this, I will search for some graphs and technical books about it. I just can't help it, I find it fascinating. Well, as any other element of New Eden, actually.

I'm Caroline Grace, and this is my favorite musical on the Citadel.
Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-03-01 18:41:14 UTC
Well consider that your ship almost always has a low level warp field around it. It explains why your speed is static as opposed to a mass that should consistently accelerate. In effect the warp field adds 'drag' to your ship which limits its maximum speed. It's also why you bounce off objects harmlessly as well. Best way to think of it is your ship has one foot in 'normal' 4th dimensional space and the other foot precariously in its own 5th dimensional pocket....

Course' that's a rough bastardization of how it works, but one simple enough to grasp. The actual nitty gritty details are obviously a lot more complex... but... its a great place to start.
Manwe Todako
Disciples of Ston
#5 - 2012-03-01 20:06:05 UTC
Dear Ms. Grace,
This is a favorite area of study for me personally and there are some alternate theories you may want to explore that involve "anti-space" or "anti-singularity" theory. I am including a couple links to the Old IGS forum where more extensive discussion and debate about this topic took place. I also invite you to journey with me into a stellar core to experience first hand the phenomenon. It is truly a "quantum" experience. Let me know if you are interested. The graphics links in the old forum are no longer functioning but first hand trip to a stellar core will be much more informative for you. I also invite you to make a trip to a planetary core. This experience will basically defy yoru understanding a standard quantum theory. As Ms Goldcore indicated, you will need to expand your dimensional membrane string theory understanding to grasp what you will experience.

Basic Anti-singularity warp drive theory This first link takes you to a commentary on Dr. Topher's basic description of warp drive that you have already referenced. On this first link, go to entry number 90.
Anti-gravity Phenomena, etc This second link explores certain strange anomalies that seem to defy basic laws of physics. Again the idea of anti-space is mentioned. The "hit the core" link doesn't work, but you will want to experience first hand anyway.
More anti-singularity puzzles This last link is one more short entry. You can explore the whole discussion by looking at the whole threads around these links. On this third link, go to entry number 25.

I think that if you take the time to visit both a stellar core and a planetary core, your understanding of normal physics will be blown away. There is so much that defies understanding in these phenomena. I am more than happy to take time to provide the coordinates for you to explore these interesting phenomena. Just contact me any time.

SANKOFA
Caroline Grace
Retrostellar Boulevard
#6 - 2012-03-02 12:33:13 UTC
Thgil, I had to read your post five times before I finally could imagine the 4th and 5th dimensional pocket and exactly in that moment my brain exploded. On more serious note though, I understand the "forever" warp field around my ship and it sounds really interesting. I didn't know that counts for bouncing my ship as well. Many thanks for your answer.


Manwe! This is great. You seem to be some kind of specialist on this problem, which is exactly I was hoping for. Pardon me for the lack of technical terms, I hope your eyes are not bleeding. I've read your posted links and this theory looks very promising. If I understand it correctly, the idea is "a space withing the space" when warp drive comes to play. So when warp is activated, a ship is moving in empty space outside of our regular space. Like in another dimension? No trouble to imagine that in my point of view, but when I see other ships warping out, they're actually not disappearing into oblivion, rather they goes too far away and are not visible anymore. But that is probably just a silly imagination.


Anyway, I gladly accept your invitation for a truly quantum experience! I will concact you soon as possible, after I deal with some rather serious business with Serpentis inside my home system. Lives are at stake! But... that's another story. Thank you very much for all the links, explanation and invitation, very much appreciated.

I'm Caroline Grace, and this is my favorite musical on the Citadel.
Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-03-02 19:26:05 UTC
I hope this clears up 10th dimensional space a little... since current therories require there to be 11... Although the 11th cant be explained at all, it just is. but here you go.

10th Dimention

Link to media
Manwe Todako
Disciples of Ston
#8 - 2012-03-02 21:32:57 UTC
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
I hope this clears up 10th dimensional space a little... since current therories require there to be 11... Although the 11th cant be explained at all, it just is. but here you go.

10th Dimention

Link to media



Dang, now why did I skip Cap School class that day? Great link, Ms. Goldcore. Thanks for sharing it. Now if I could only figure out to which dimension my gravitons escaped.

SANKOFA