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The Mittani Declares War

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Yolamine
Fast Paw Hotshottng
#41 - 2011-09-08 12:14:46 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Spitfire
Removed at the poster's request. Spitfire
Gregor Palter
#42 - 2011-09-08 12:17:37 UTC
I don't care who does it or what personal motive he may have for it, as long as Hilmar gets a firm kick in the ego gland and CCP is forced to refocus.

Excuses are the refuge of the weak.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#43 - 2011-09-08 12:17:55 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
The Mittani is simply repeating what many people have been saying over the last couple of months and is now trying to claim credit for himself.



Yes he is repeating what many players have been saying. But that is his job! He is supposed to represent players.

CSM aren't elected because they have original ideas. They are elected to represent the players views. He is finally doing this.

I agree he seems to be late to the game. But I suppose he may have been trying to be more diplomatic in his diplomacy at first and now seems to realize that won't work.

You say nothing will work. But then why even run for csm? If ccp won't listen to players no matter what then csm has no place.

As for him "trying to claim credit for himself", I'm not sure what that means. He is not pretending anything he said is original or some new discovery - quite the opposite. He is saying players are sick of this.

CCP Zulu posted what the numbers of devs working on FIS was in july of 2010. The last CSM minutes indicate that number isn't going to change. This is really what has caused 2 summers of rage players. Very few devs working on eve FIS features.

Yes there has been your token player saying "yay I'm happy for incarna." But the rage after it was released combined with the stagnant numbers has to send a message to ccp.

I'm Glad the CSM is representing the players views on this and doing whatever they can to get ccp to give us something.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Indy Rider
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2011-09-08 12:18:41 UTC
Its hard enough logging in at the moment, let alone trying to get some form of change in the higher levels.

Even if we make some form of change, it wont last, and a couple of months later we'll be in the same position while listening to the suits say "We changed! Its different this time!".

I really don't want to say or think that its too late, but after seeing the chart that Jester posted, where else are we going?

CCP growing as a company would be awesome to see, but it can't get far given that EVE is already stagnant and the current attitude in the high echelons towards its only revenue.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#45 - 2011-09-08 12:32:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
I would like to say this is going to get interesting, but old and boring is more to the point.
Watching a bunch of kids throw a tantrum X-mas morning cause there getting clothes which will last them some time and are needed instead of a new toy which they will only use for an hour is really just sad.

- What I see is one sided reporting.
- No comments about Mittani's 180 degree
- No comments from CCP

Which leads too
- You have to look at the source of all this nonsense.
- No comments from CCP makes me extremely suspicious.
- The CSM is extremely quiet about this considering they are all going down with Mittani. (I see no unilateral support)
- It wouldn't surprise me if this entire thing is one giant troll.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Prince Kobol
#46 - 2011-09-08 12:58:54 UTC
Cyaxares II wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Gaming press says a lot of stuff, but what does it do? No publicity is bad publicity.


It's a fair point. We'll have to see if media pressure gets results, as it has in the past. The CSM believes it's our most effective tactic, as well as the only one left available to us after the attempts to fiddle with the minutes of the emergency summit.


Erm.. must of missed were media pressure has gotten results in the past.. oh my bad, got the CSM a free trip to Iceland, other then it accomplished nothing.

t20



What about T20.... please explain excatly what changed?

Also you didn't answer my question regard the the publicity a few ago.. again what has changed?
Prince Kobol
#47 - 2011-09-08 13:09:11 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
The Mittani is simply repeating what many people have been saying over the last couple of months and is now trying to claim credit for himself.



Yes he is repeating what many players have been saying. But that is his job! He is supposed to represent players.

CSM aren't elected because they have original ideas. They are elected to represent the players views. He is finally doing this.

I agree he seems to be late to the game. But I suppose he may have been trying to be more diplomatic in his diplomacy at first and now seems to realize that won't work.

You say nothing will work. But then why even run for csm? If ccp won't listen to players no matter what then csm has no place.

As for him "trying to claim credit for himself", I'm not sure what that means. He is not pretending anything he said is original or some new discovery - quite the opposite. He is saying players are sick of this.

CCP Zulu posted what the numbers of devs working on FIS was in july of 2010. The last CSM minutes indicate that number isn't going to change. This is really what has caused 2 summers of rage players. Very few devs working on eve FIS features.

Yes there has been your token player saying "yay I'm happy for incarna." But the rage after it was released combined with the stagnant numbers has to send a message to ccp.

I'm Glad the CSM is representing the players views on this and doing whatever they can to get ccp to give us something.


Why bother having the CSM.. that is a very good question.

Also Mittani does not represent the players, he represents a small percentage of players and what ever aspects he cares about.

All that the Mittani did was managed climb out of the arse of CCP just enough to see daylight and realise that he has accomplished nothing other then get a free trip to Iceland and it hurt his ego. So skimmed the forums and just repeated what everybody has been saying thinking that coming from him it will make a difference... which it wont.

Please tell me what has changed since the protest and the gaming media attention from a few months ago?

If anything you could say things have got worse.

We are still waiting for the minutes from the emergency drinking, sorry, meeting, updates are stil a bug ridden as ever, and communtion between the CCP and CSM apperantly has gotten so bad that they are resorting to writing blogs and delcaring War on CCP senior management.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#48 - 2011-09-08 13:13:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Simetraz wrote:
I would like to say this is going to get interesting, but old and boring is more to the point.
Watching a bunch of kids throw a tantrum X-mas morning cause there getting clothes which will last them some time and are needed instead of a new toy which they will only use for an hour is really just sad.

- What I see is one sided reporting.
- No comments about Mittani's 180 degree
- No comments from CCP

Which leads too
- You have to look at the source of all this nonsense.
- No comments from CCP makes me extremely suspicious.
- The CSM is extremely quiet about this considering they are all going down with Mittani. (I see no unilateral support)
- It wouldn't surprise me if this entire thing is one giant troll.


I think its wrong to portray this as a bunch of kids throwing tantrums. While sure, Mittani's 180 after his neville chamberlain is of course amusing , it shouldn't be allowed to derail the essence of the issue here which is:

CCP have been denying resources and support to the core Eve Online experience for a long time now. Some of us remember the "18 months" scandal as a promise that things would get better if we just kept trusting the company through the year and a half of drought and "stayed the course".

Well we did, but at the end of the 18 months all we got was reduced functionality hanger bay, a single room and a horrible NeX store and the promise of more of the same. And frankly its not good enough.

Sure Mittani is surfing the wave of other people's critique and passion here but then he is the CSM chair and its kind of his job to be at the front of the march throwing himself under the treads of the marketing department's MT armoured vehicles in the interests of spaceship content.

People are protesting that we've been given a crappy new toy (1 CQ) and one invitation to plug in mom and pops credit card (NeX store) after waiting 18 months for new content development to begin again. But this is Eve Online, which once was a shining beacon of space opera content and space war stimulation where things changed and you had to adapt to realities and potentials in space to keep viable.

Rather than characterizing us as spoiled children complaining because the parents have given us hardwearing shoes rather than a tin rocket I think its more a case of the parents shutting themselves into a back room and smoking rock for 18 months and offering us a pass of the bong at christmas to make up for the fact the house is now devoid of food and infested with roaches.

Anyway.

Gaming press gave a lot of CCP side coverage on the back of the "peace in our time" announcement last time. CSM? Well, some of them will be like many players, depressed and pretty much giving up with Eve. Others? Well, they don't do confllct or are happy to play for the long term and might see an opportunity if Mittani does end up sacrificing himself for the revolution etc.

But its unfair to say he is the only one speaking.

I advise you to take a read of Seleene's latest blog. Its frankly excellent and seems perfectly positioned to allow him to play the winston churchill role once chamberlain resigns.

In any case, this is a key issue now for Eve Online and its wrong to see it all as throwaway tantrums and flash in the pan angst. At this moment (as in the jita riots early this summer) at least you saw player passion and life. Better that than the placid order of the grave which is what you'll have when everyone that cares about the dream of eve online is finally unsubbed if this situation continues.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#49 - 2011-09-08 13:16:58 UTC
The difference between Neville Chamberlain and The Mittani is that at least Chamberlain returned from Munich with the minutes of his meeting with the brown-shirted Charlie Chaplain lookalike.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Bolloxx
Doomheim
#50 - 2011-09-08 13:17:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Bolloxx
Thier are many posts about mittens declaring war on CCP, and we have all seen the links to the press, however not one Dev has commented on any of the threads

Very few other CSM's have also added weight to the threads , so is mittens is massaging his ego and making a one man stand

Many players will agree that we need more content in the game and less of vanity items, it truly is time for CCP to add something to the game to keep it from going stale

Surely CCP should make some sort of statement of what we can expect to get in terms of Fis

However has the relationship with the CSM's and CCP broken down so much that we have the chair of the CSM so openly sniping at CCP without any CCP response

The fact is that the playerbase should be the most important issue to CCP, the playerbase pays the wages and it would be folly of any company to ignore the source of it's income

Imo this only shows that CCP learned nothing from the outcry of vanity items and still have a deep lack of communication with its revenue source
Tethys Atreides
The Audacity of Huge
#51 - 2011-09-08 13:20:21 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:


In any case, this is a key issue now for Eve Online and its wrong to see it all as throwaway tantrums and flash in the pan angst. At this moment (as in the jita riots early this summer) at least you saw player passion and life. Better that than the placid order of the grave which is what you'll have when everyone that cares about the dream of eve online is finally unsubbed if this situation continues.



Very well said.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#52 - 2011-09-08 13:24:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Rodj Blake wrote:
The difference between Neville Chamberlain and The Mittani is that at least Chamberlain returned from Munich with the minutes of his meeting with the brown-shirted Charlie Chaplain lookalike.


Lol true. If it was Mittani I guess the scene would go something like:

"I might someday (once the minutes are approved) have in my hand a piece of paper that agrees certain things (pending the red pens of the ccp marketing department) that will commit CCP to doing certain unspecified things within a flexible timetable that resolves a porous range of broad and unknowable issues!"

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#53 - 2011-09-08 13:32:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Prince Kobol wrote:


Why bother having the CSM.. that is a very good question.

Also Mittani does not represent the players, he represents a small percentage of players and what ever aspects he cares about.

All that the Mittani did was managed climb out of the arse of CCP just enough to see daylight and realise that he has accomplished nothing other then get a free trip to Iceland and it hurt his ego. So skimmed the forums and just repeated what everybody has been saying thinking that coming from him it will make a difference... which it wont.

Please tell me what has changed since the protest and the gaming media attention from a few months ago?

If anything you could say things have got worse.

We are still waiting for the minutes from the emergency drinking, sorry, meeting, updates are stil a bug ridden as ever, and communtion between the CCP and CSM apperantly has gotten so bad that they are resorting to writing blogs and delcaring War on CCP senior management.




You complain that CSM is repeating the concerns of the players as forcefully as they can. That is what they are supposed to do.

You do not suggest what *else* they should be doing. So your complaints are not constructive.

You are also a bit naive to think that there will be major changes to major plans 60 days after we rage about incarnas release. There were 70 developers assigned to incarna for at least 18 months!

You don't just see rage on the forums when you are 14 months into it and then immediately announce you are dropping that and assigning them all back to spaceships. However, I would be willing to bet there is allot of discussion about assigning more devs back to FIS. When and how can they cut the incarna crew and still get allot out of the time already invested even if they need to cut some things short to get back to FIS.

And if the CSM is steadfast in demanding that CCP give some answers about when they are going to assign resources to this, I think we will see some more devs assigned.

What eve player does not want resources assigned to eve?

When we look at all the problems people are complaining about this is always the root of the problem. No one showed at the FW round table? Well the problem isn't a lack of communication. Its that there is nothing to communicate. There is no one working on FW.

Nothing new about low sec? Again no one is working on it.

The backlog of issues is barely making any headway? They have very very few people to work on it.

CSM is going to spotlight this issue of no resources for FIS and I am glad. It is the mother of all issues for eve.

But its not going to change in 60 days. Thats unrealistic. However I do think in the next 6 months we will see CCP assign more devs to FIS. Or their game will continue to suffer. And it will suffer because of th age old reason, they ignored their customers.

I am not a fan of mittani or this csm either. I don't think I have said a single nice thing about them until they finally started pressuring ccp about putting more resources into FIS. But they are finally doing it so I am giving them credit for representing the players.

edit: If I had seen Jade's post I probably wouldn't have had to even type this. Well said Jade.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Prince Kobol
#54 - 2011-09-08 13:35:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Cearain - you posted a link to post which was first posted over a year ago by yourself which I can not be bothered reading truth be told as the title appears to have no relevance to the discussion at hand. Any chance you can just give me a short synopsis?
Sin Easts
#55 - 2011-09-08 13:37:06 UTC
I would even say it all might be very clever politcal campaign from Mittani...

Assuming that CCP aren't really entirely dumb, as most of players seem to believe, they are well aware of the corelation between succes of Dust and EvE playerbase.

Without EvE community cooperating, embracing Dust as a cool content patch and actually use the new features, Dust will fade out in a few weeks as another rather generic scifi shooter.
And if the current situation persists, it's entirely possible that the remaining players will ignore Dust entirely.

That said, it is likely that something will happen during next few months. CCP will probably release the rest of cqs and a first multiplayer bit of WiS in the winter. The summer expansion will be devoted to bug fixing, rebalancing and updating current content to soothe incontent players and break ground for the real summer "expansion" - Dust.

Then the Mittani would say that changes were brought because of his influence...


Altough I am probably exaggerating about Mittens, it is very likely that despite all protest or unsubbing, any major changes to EvE will come in summer - either prior to Dust release, in order to set the stage, or a few weeks after - If it will be renewed development after succesfull Dust launch or desperate attempt to save sinking ship remains in question...
Othran
Route One
#56 - 2011-09-08 13:37:41 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
The difference between Neville Chamberlain and The Mittani is that at least Chamberlain returned from Munich with the minutes of his meeting with the brown-shirted Charlie Chaplain lookalike.


Mmmm and when were the unredacted minutes of that meeting officially made public? As far as I know they still haven't and won't be for another 28 years.

Hmm maybe CCP are run by the UK civil service - it'd certainly explain the bullshit and incompetence Straight
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#57 - 2011-09-08 13:40:11 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Cearain - you posted a link to post which was first posted over a year ago by yourself which I can not be bothered reading truth be told as the title appears to have no relevance to the discussion at hand. Any chance you can just give me a short synopsis?



Yeah thats my sig not really part of the post.

The short of it is players should be notified when the oppposing militia enters a faction war plex. That way they can defend it instead of leaving it to npcs.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Prince Kobol
#58 - 2011-09-08 13:40:51 UTC
Othran wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
The difference between Neville Chamberlain and The Mittani is that at least Chamberlain returned from Munich with the minutes of his meeting with the brown-shirted Charlie Chaplain lookalike.


Mmmm and when were the unredacted minutes of that meeting officially made public? As far as I know they still haven't and won't be for another 28 years.

Hmm maybe CCP are run by the UK civil service - it'd certainly explain the bullshit and incompetence Straight


lol..

Personally I couldn't care less about the meeting minutes now. So much time has past it is no longer relevant.

I suppose you have to give a few points to CCP there, just keep delaying them until enough time has past where either they no longer have any relevance or where people no longer care.
Prince Kobol
#59 - 2011-09-08 13:41:56 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Cearain - you posted a link to post which was first posted over a year ago by yourself which I can not be bothered reading truth be told as the title appears to have no relevance to the discussion at hand. Any chance you can just give me a short synopsis?



Yeah thats my sig not really part of the post.

The short of it is players should be notified when the oppposing militia enters a faction war plex. That way they can defend it instead of leaving it to npcs.


arh.. sorry about that :)
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#60 - 2011-09-08 13:44:21 UTC
I guess this is what happens when you foster a gaming community based on mistrust, conflict, and an anything goes environment. You get incredibly loyal fans that will turn on you like a pack of sharks as soon as things don't go their way anymore.

CCP's been wardecced by the Goons.

To CCP I say this:

"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose."