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Rid core skills that scare new players

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Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-02-25 22:21:51 UTC
as an Amarr pilot I propose to add

Energy Systems Operation
Energy Management
Engineering

to the OP's list.

As a Khanid pilot I add that getting rid off Gunnery but not of some missile skill is also unfair to missile users.
Sprite Can
#22 - 2012-02-25 23:27:37 UTC
I am against this. It will never happen anyways, but these skills are definitely NOT the same as the learning skills.

Refreshing Lemon-Lime~
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#23 - 2012-02-25 23:30:36 UTC
They can train the skills to level 3-4, lv5 is a reward for those who take the time. Yes, even for 'core skills'.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Superterrier
#24 - 2012-02-25 23:32:52 UTC
Whilst you're at it just remove things like t1 turret skills - they do nothing but provide a damage bonus and unlock T2 turrets.

Actually, just remove T2 turret skills too - they only give a meagre 2% damage bonus and they don't even unlock anything.
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-02-25 23:37:06 UTC
OP doesnt recognise the linked skill trees like various specialised ship areas, research or other linked skills requiring these to be trained as a foundation.

Even as a relatively new player I can see and appreciate the value of not making skill aqusition easier, not just as its an arrow to the knee of veterans but it cheapens the planning and understanding of how ships and other tech works.

If anything seeing the relative improvement in fitting capabilties as you progress with these core skills allows for a better understanding of systems and also allows for a "spread" of player capabilities, especially for those who havent bothered to invest in certain skills. As such simply removing the need for them I feel isn't helpful to the flavour of game progression, pilot variance and understanding.

As such I can't support the idea.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
Dersk
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-02-25 23:48:20 UTC
I too was scared by skills I didn't know about when I first played Eve. That is why I quit and never came back.
Ai Shun
#27 - 2012-02-25 23:55:22 UTC
Macrathleachlainn Lucian wrote:
So you would not mind having those skillpoints to issue to other skills that ARE SIGNIFICANT yet you want a new player to train them so he can unlock the good ones.

Excellent point.


Correct. Have you ever been a situation where something may be beneficial to you, but you felt it was detrimental to the larger group? I come from a point where I take the larger group over my own, selfish views.

I do not see these skills as a burden.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#28 - 2012-02-26 00:08:34 UTC
Scien Inkunen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-02-26 00:15:29 UTC
If you were developing this game, will you remove those (or any other) skill ? Or you will new ones ?

With this system they get their reward for developing and players benefit with long term goals to fulfill and having game that last long enough in it's initial state. At the end - this is a game - nobody forces you to play it if you don't like it.

As there is saying: the turtle is slow, but can live 200 years ...

Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life !
Drew Solaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-02-26 00:27:10 UTC
Terrible idea, having those skills at V? Newbies don't need them. By the time they do they are more than prepared to enjoy the game with what they have while those train.

I lied :o
Hainnz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-02-26 00:51:10 UTC
I think the problem, if there is one, is the set of skills where having level V is needed to "unlock" other skills, items, and ships. With the exception of rank 1 skills, I think having any skill to level V should be optional in all cases. People would only train up to V for that little bit of extra fitting, damage, whatever. Level IV could be the new maximum unlock level.

CCP HAS been (kind of) moving away these gatekeeper level V skills for some time now, however. It's possible CCP might want to do something like this at some time in the future...
Name Family Name
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2012-02-26 00:55:31 UTC
The problem may be realted to the introduction of remaps.

Before that, people usually had a fairly balanced clone and there was nothing to be done about it.

Nowadays, people just max their skills for int/mem or perc/will and get all worked up if they can't train a skill at max.

I'm training a new character myself atm and yes - I admit I have a skillplan lasting about a year before I even undock as detailed here.

The thing is I'm not in a hurry as I have other characters to play with in the meantime.

A new player doing the same would be a terrible idea, but of course people suffering from ADHD like the OP don't get that.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#33 - 2012-02-26 00:55:49 UTC
Spaceship Command improves ship agility last I checked. And that is very important (especially for getting to warp before the gate camp locks you).
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-02-26 00:58:45 UTC
I've always felt like electronic upgrades V was just a skill that made you wait 10 days to fly a recon and advanced spaceship command was just wait 1 month to fly a capital ship. Making people wait a long time to get into capital ships is okay I guess but electronics upgrades V as a prereq to recon ships is just absurd. Make the skill useful in some way or change the prereq to something that is needed for the ship like electronic warfare 5 for caldari recons and turret destabilization 4 for the amarr recons, etc.
Drew Solaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-02-26 00:59:54 UTC
Macrathleachlainn Lucian wrote:
Gunnery support skills not the skill gunnery itself which does not DO ANYTHING ELSE except UNLOCK the support skills.


Also feel the need to point out the Gunnery skill gives a RoF bonus. Not as large as rapid fire, but with Gunnery 5 its a 10% increase. AND it unlocks other things.

All in all not a worthless skill at all.

I lied :o
Ai Shun
#36 - 2012-02-26 01:22:52 UTC
Drew Solaert wrote:
Macrathleachlainn Lucian wrote:
Gunnery support skills not the skill gunnery itself which does not DO ANYTHING ELSE except UNLOCK the support skills.


Also feel the need to point out the Gunnery skill gives a RoF bonus. Not as large as rapid fire, but with Gunnery 5 its a 10% increase. AND it unlocks other things.

All in all not a worthless skill at all.


Indeed.

Gunnery wrote:
Basic turret operation skill. 2% Bonus to weapon turrets' rate of fire per skill level.


But it is also a good enabler.

Gunnery II allows Controlled Bursts, Motion Prediction, Rapid Firing, Sharpshooter and Weapon Upgrades.
Gunnery III allows Caldari Offensive Systems and the Medium Turrets.
Gunnery IV allows Surgical Strike and Trajectory Analysis.
And then V goes for the Capital and Large Turrets, etc.

The key thing here is, somebody starting out should not start out, capable of flying a Battleship or Capital. After-all, that is what Gunnery V allows you to get, right and that's what the OP wants to remove?

How are they going to afford it, the fits and the replacements? PLEX it? Maybe so, but how much learning and game experience are they missing out on? How to make ISK, how to make mistakes. This should all be done with cheap, throwaway ships and the skills to match so the development of a player matches the development of the character.

Vaal Erit wrote:
I've always felt like electronic upgrades V was just a skill that made you wait 10 days to fly a recon


It also gives you a 25% reduction in CPU for any module requiring that. 25%! Being able to fly a ship is part of it; but being able to use it effectively is just as a large part of it. There is a good reason why CCP designed the skill trees as they have.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-02-26 01:37:43 UTC
I trained gallente frigate to 3. Then I trained small hybrids to 2. Then I trained hull upgrades to 2. Then I trained electronics upgrades to 2. Then I trained gallente industrial to 1. Then I trained mining to 3. Then I trained missile launcher operation to 2. Then I trained caldari frigate to 2. Then I trained gallente frigate to 4. Then I trained gallente cruiser to 1. Then I trained medium hybrids to 1. Then I trained shield upgrades to 1. Then I trained shield operation to 1.

tl;dr:
I did this all when I started EVE. The whole time, I was finding new things to do, short skills to train, and new things to explore. I didn't have to be told how to do this, it was pretty clear from the get go. Anyone who is capable of making it through the tutorial can grasp this.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#38 - 2012-02-26 07:45:19 UTC
Macrathleachlainn Lucian wrote:
weapon upgrades

advanced weapon upgrades

electronics

…

The only thing these skills do are allow you to fit your ship or unlock skills to train that ARE significant.


People who don't want to fly combat ships don't need to bother with training the skills required to fit combat ships. I see no problem here.

Why does a trade/industrial alt need to have 25% more CPU on their ship? Or have weapons consume 25% less CPU and PG?

Decisions -> consequences. Just because the game is complicated doesn't mean the complexity is bad. Some complexity is bad, but not these fitting skills. Pick on something that actually doesn't matter, like remaps.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Banechild
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#39 - 2012-02-26 08:09:50 UTC
This topic: kill it with FIRE
Raiz Nhell
PeregrineXII
#40 - 2012-02-26 08:17:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Raiz Nhell
Decisions -> consequences... EVE in a nutshell... Equality isn't a benefit, equality is pain...

I play cause its a game that I enjoy, cause if I mess up I can't reload, I don't respawn, I'm punished for my stupidity...
If you want to play with stupidity and not take the consequences then learn to catch hypersonic shells or play a game that holds your hand...

Edit: I agree with him ^^ burn them, burn them all

There is no such thing as a fair fight...

If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage.
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