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Sansha's Gifts to the Cluster

Author
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#1 - 2012-02-24 00:58:11 UTC
Only joking. Let's look at the achievements of the different civilizations in New Eden, shall we?

The Federation has successfully and peacefully united many worlds of distinct cultures and ancient civilizations under one democratic banner. A showcase of human nature, anything is possible or conceivable in the Federation. The cultures within have gifted the cluster with philosophical ideas on individualism and humanism, and improved the lives of the people within its borders through the principles of libertarianism.

The Empire of Amarr traces back thousands of years to just one people on one planet, but they have spread through their ancient religion to create the most stable and powerful civilization known to man. Sure, there's slavery and other naughty bits, but you cannot deny the immensity and imposed order the Amarr have created. They, too, have a rich culture that stretches back many millenia, even if it is all homogeneously focused on one planet.

The Caldari have created a strong industrial state founded on the principles of their culture and people. While closed to outsiders, few will disagree that the State is perfectly suited for the Caldari mindset. Cynically recognizing capitalism as the purest form of human nature, the State creates strength through unwavering loyalty and hard work. Though corporatism has eroded their ancient culture a bit, it nonetheless continues to exist into the modern day.

The Minmatar Republic is an amalgamation of seven tribes, each with their own unique history and culture, but all united behind a common identity. While there is corruption and sectarianism, it cannot be denied that this tribal republic is organic of the Minmatar's original culture. Again, while closed to outsiders, the Minmatar Republic stands to be a true home for their people.

Each civilization (or collection thereof in the Minmatar and Federal cases) have their own flaws and shortcomings. There is suffering, there is violence, there is poverty. But each civilization recognizes these bad points as just that; bad. Each culture has their own set of morality in how to deal with the impoverished. In the Empire, there is religion to assist the downtrodden. In the Federation, there are charities based on humanistic principles. The Caldari State encourage hard work and the strength of the collective for the good of all, while the Minmatar Republic's sense of kinship would seek to uplift the destitute.

The point is, is that our humanity recognizes the evils of the world, and our humanity encourages us to do something about it.

Meanwhile, there's Sansha's Nation. What have they given to the world? Kuvakei reminds me of a Federal politician, full of empty promises. "It'll be good just as soon as I settle my grudge with the empires, I promise". This isn't the 30s anymore, pilots. Whatever utopia there was (and there's very little to suggest it ever was one), it no longer exists. You've heard the speeches. All he talks about is vengeance.

So, go on, then. Show me what good Sansha's Nation has done in the world. What gifts have they given us? What unique contributions to the good of humanity?

Don't worry.

I'll wait.

p.s. The excuse of "We would provide some good to humanity if we weren't gunned down at every opportunity" doesn't work. The Caldari State were able to fend off a much larger and more powerful Federation one to two hundred years ago, and still were able to create their own working society and civilization independent of their homeworld.
Deceiver's Voice
Molok Subclade
#2 - 2012-02-24 02:24:13 UTC
When you can speak on the topic without hyperbole I will consider addressing this topic in a serious and straightforward manner. Until then, I prefer to avoid fanaticism in all it's incarnations. The reason is simple; a reasoned argument, I'm afraid, may end up ignored in the fray that is sure to follow.

I respect passion, Seriphyn Inhonores, but not when it comes at the cost of reasoned and educated discussion.
Unit XS365BT
Unit Commune
#3 - 2012-02-24 02:29:11 UTC
Hello again old friend

We hope you are well.

We Return.

Unit XS365BT. Designated Communications Officer. Unit Commune.

Aquila Shadow
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-02-24 02:52:29 UTC
to be fair nation did give us the shiney slave implants (and who dosent like the nice armour increases they give you).
They also give us the hileriously mindless responses to every question you pose to them. Seriosly ask them any question and they will always give you a variation of "join us".

                                              "Let Vigilance Be Your Sword"

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#5 - 2012-02-24 03:05:52 UTC
Deceiver's Voice wrote:
When you can speak on the topic without hyperbole I will consider addressing this topic in a serious and straightforward manner. Until then, I prefer to avoid fanaticism in all it's incarnations. The reason is simple; a reasoned argument, I'm afraid, may end up ignored in the fray that is sure to follow.

I respect passion, Seriphyn Inhonores, but not when it comes at the cost of reasoned and educated discussion.


Well said.

Katrina Oniseki

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-02-24 04:35:39 UTC
Deceiver's Voice wrote:
When you can speak on the topic without hyperbole I will consider addressing this topic in a serious and straightforward manner. Until then, I prefer to avoid fanaticism in all it's incarnations. The reason is simple; a reasoned argument, I'm afraid, may end up ignored in the fray that is sure to follow.

I respect passion, Seriphyn Inhonores, but not when it comes at the cost of reasoned and educated discussion.


Enlighten us with your reasoned and educated arguments, oh wise one.


Sabik now, Sabik forever

Markius TheShed
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#7 - 2012-02-24 11:01:18 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:


The Empire of Amarr traces back thousands of years to just one people on one planet, but they have spread through their ancient religion to create the most stable and powerful civilization known to man. Sure, there's slavery and other naughty bits,


I love how you call the suffering of billions of people as "Naughty bits" That has to be the biggest understatement of 114 so far.

When it comes to the Sansha I like how they are giving Amarrians a taste of their own slavery.

**Murientor Tribe** a capsuleer organization composed of radical Minmatar. Since YC107

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#8 - 2012-02-24 11:46:05 UTC
Well, for one thing, we've beaten death. Not just for the elite few, but for every member of Nation.

Those who join us are happy.

We have brought about the old dream of uniting human minds together in a way that could only previously be dreamed about.

We've killed greed, sadism, hatred within our ranks...

I could go on, shall I?
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#9 - 2012-02-24 12:59:03 UTC
So, the people who are harmed, killed, whatever, through the process... is this just a case of "to make an omlette, you have to break some eggs"?

With confusion,

Avlynka

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#10 - 2012-02-24 13:32:53 UTC
Ava Starfire wrote:
So, the people who are harmed, killed, whatever, through the process... is this just a case of "to make an omlette, you have to break some eggs"?

With confusion,

Avlynka


Less of that than the four other empires cause in their wars, don't you think?
Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
#11 - 2012-02-24 15:23:59 UTC
There is no death in Nation? Very well. What about fear?

Nation is fear and cowardice incarnate. Kuvakei recognizes that there is something wrong with the cluster, and that there are horrible people doing horrible things. We bring war and destruction in a seemingly endless way. So how does he address this? By running away from the issues entirely and modifying the human mind in a horrid way. He promises Unity but instead brings division; a True Slave does not experience reality, they experience Kuvakei's will only. So far removed from reality and forced to see through the lens of one man's mind, how can one expect Nation to unlock humanity's highest potential? We cannot, because Nation has traded truth for safety and longevity. Nation is scared, and while it is many numbers strong this makes it weak and, so far, predictable. Kuvakei has had time to plan all of this, yes. A hundred years of planning and biding. But he is only a single mind, and he intends to be the only mind at work.
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#12 - 2012-02-24 15:58:10 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Well, for one thing, we've beaten death. Not just for the elite few, but for every member of Nation.

Those who join us are happy.

We have brought about the old dream of uniting human minds together in a way that could only previously be dreamed about.

We've killed greed, sadism, hatred within our ranks...

I could go on, shall I?


Happy.

You might knock back the mindflood like its on tap and be perfectly happy. Still not healthy though. Medling in peoples minds never is.

**Vherokior **

Gottii
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-02-24 16:12:46 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Well, for one thing, we've beaten death. Not just for the elite few, but for every member of Nation.

Those who join us are happy.

We have brought about the old dream of uniting human minds together in a way that could only previously be dreamed about.

We've killed greed, sadism, hatred within our ranks...

I could go on, shall I?



I'm told receiving Vitoxin is a pleasurable experience as well.

It's still slavery and a mockery of life.

The fact that the slavery you peddle is never ending makes it more horrible, not less.
Ares Renton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-02-24 16:45:28 UTC
Quote:
Meanwhile, there's Sansha's Nation. What have they given to the world? Kuvakei reminds me of a Federal politician, full of empty promises. "It'll be good just as soon as I settle my grudge with the empires, I promise". This isn't the 30s anymore, pilots. Whatever utopia there was (and there's very little to suggest it ever was one), it no longer exists. You've heard the speeches. All he talks about is vengeance.


I think there's more of a hope for Sansha's Nation than there is for the Gallente... A crumbling, decadent federation, oppressive and genocidal while completely unironically espousing the purely rhetorical ideals of "freedom" that its brainwashed citizens parrot with glee. They have not provided any significant advances in science or technology in the past century, and their ships are ugly bricks that pollute space with their obsolescence. Mankind could do without them.

On the other hand, Sansha's Nation is a disciplined army at the cutting edge of technology. They have a significant underworld spanning across every empire, hold sovereignty despite CONCORD's repeated attempts at extirpation, and have an actual ideology that they fight for: the advancement of mankind towards a totalitarian hivemind of human consciousness. While I wouldn't exactly want Sansha in my head barking orders, I'd much rather be a Sansha drone than a Gallente drone.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#15 - 2012-02-24 17:33:40 UTC
I'll share my thoughts on the subject later but I wanted to just highlight this:

Ares Renton wrote:
and their ships are ugly bricks that pollute space with their obsolescence.


This coming from a Caldari, the race that produced the Rokh, Charon and Naga in recent years, is hypocritical to the point of comedy.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#16 - 2012-02-24 17:48:43 UTC
Let me also describe Nation in as propagandistic a fashion as Seriphyn Inhonores has chosen to describe the other empires.

Sansha's Nation has come back from the brink of destruction and persevered through ultimate adversity to not only thrive, but to successfully challenge the other empires which tried to destroy it. It has a functioning society with internal peace, and where individuals within that society are, for the first time in human history, happy. They have mastered technologies that humanity has dreamed of, presumably, since they reached for the stars, and beat death itself not just for a select few, but for everyone who is a part of the nation. All we had to do was be honest with ourselves that we were never really free in the first place, and that true freedom is not only impossible, it's undesireable.

Slaves we are. Mindless drones we are not. I really wish you would stop making this mistake.
Ares Renton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-02-24 17:51:32 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
I'll share my thoughts on the subject later but I wanted to just highlight this:

Ares Renton wrote:
and their ships are ugly bricks that pollute space with their obsolescence.


This coming from a Caldari, the race that produced the Rokh, Charon and Naga in recent years, is hypocritical to the point of comedy.


The Rokh, and Naga are some of the most beautiful and high-tech snipers in New Eden and the Charon is the largest freighter in New Eden. They are built with efficiency in mind, but still manage to achieve a deadly, utilitarian beauty. The same sort of beauty that you'd find in a gun. They are sleek and seamless, rather than lumpy (Gallente) or tossed-together (Minmatar). The only better-looking ships in the galaxy are Amarrian, which were expressly designed to be both weapons and works of art.

Compare to:

The Dominix and Brutix: two lumpy green potatoes and about as high-tech.

The Megathron: this is what the Naga would look like if it were crewed by morbidly-obese Gallente navymen and required expanded hallways.

The Obelisk: When I first saw this, I thought it was a joke. That's all I'm going to say.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#18 - 2012-02-24 17:58:00 UTC
They're giant black and grey spacebricks.

Hell next you'll be defending the Moa, that thing makes the Spacespud Dominix look like a work of art.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Ares Renton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-02-24 18:05:06 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
They're giant black and grey spacebricks.

Hell next you'll be defending the Moa, that thing makes the Spacespud Dominix look like a work of art.


The Moa was created in an attempt to imitate Gallente design.

It was a smashing success.

Which is why nobody flies it.
Jev North
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-02-24 19:39:11 UTC
What Sansha gifted me was insight. Specifically, that some truths simply aren't found or debated. They have to emerge, scorched, smelling of cordite, and possibly carrying some residual radiation.

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.

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