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A Hamrite Journey (formerly: Amarr for the Glory of God)

Author
Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#161 - 2012-03-09 14:56:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Repentence Tyrathlion
Theobar Cresthill wrote:
Astrid Stjerna wrote:

Do you know just what Vitoxin does to a person? Liver and kidney failure, seizures, pulmonary oedema, muscular atrophy, short-term memory impairment, delirium, lung scarification, damage to the heart muscles, fever, respiratory collapse, and all of it occurring within two weeks' time


I need to investigate these claims for myself.


I've steered clear of responding to this thread for a while, since I'm really not interested in helping to tear down the Empire any further... but this is just ridiculous.

Several unfortunates in my care were given Vitoxin before I obtained them, and I know very well the symptoms of Vitoc withdrawal - I studied them in great detail. To deny that Vitoxin is anything other than a calculated attempt at the focused destruction of a human being, either by forcing them into absolute obedience or granting them a death horrifying beyond consideration, is idiotic. Vitoxin is not merely a 'poison' as you so casually refer to it. Personally I would deem it closer to a bio-weapon.

Astrid's remarks are not a claim, they are established medical fact - and, as a Caldari might say, 'working as intended'. They are an unpleasant truth about the cynicism and violence nestling amongst the good intentions in the Empire. Is it really any wonder that outsiders ignore the good side and focus on the horrors created?

It's nice that you are so devoted to the cause and beliefs of one of our more enlightened thinkers - but you are blinded by arrogance and optimism. There is a great deal wrong with the Empire, and no matter how good your own intentions are, to refute that and deny the grievances of others does nothing to help our cause.
Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
#162 - 2012-03-09 15:11:50 UTC
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:

It's nice that you are so devoted to the cause and beliefs of one of our more enlightened thinkers - but you are blinded by arrogance and optimism. There is a great deal wrong with the Empire, and no matter how good your own intentions are, to refute that and deny the grievances of others does nothing to help our cause.


OK.
My father always taught me the value of accepting constructive criticism and that to do so was not a rejection of conviction or value. I am an optimist, but I didn't think I was arrogant. Maybe I am and it has been hidden from me.

So, help me out. Where can I go to ask about the truth value of the things I am hearing? These accusations are totally opposite of the way I was raised and the way I saw my father and uncles live. The Hamrites do not do these things. I was taught that the use of vitoxin was a aberration. You all are saying that it is mainstream. Where am I supposed to go to find out the truth?

I am not just going to accept anyone's opinion. I need a trustworthy source.

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)

Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#163 - 2012-03-09 15:12:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Morwen Lagann
Theobar Cresthill wrote:
I need to investigate these claims for myself.


These are not claims. They are scientific fact.

Some people say ignorance is bliss. But you're not ignorant. You're just unwilling to admit that the little paradise that you've concocted in your head is nothing more than a delusion, and doesn't actually match up with reality.

Your Empire is capable of committing, and regularly does commit, horrible, terrible things. Yes, the other nations do their fair share - but that doesn't give anyone the excuse to pretend they or their parent faction are a saint.

The sooner you stop lying to yourself, the sooner you'll stop looking like a completely uneducated fool.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#164 - 2012-03-09 15:20:07 UTC
Find a provider of the merchandise or a buyer and user who is willing to part with information.

This will however come at a price ofcourse.

Only a few rare holders will admit to using the Vitoc and Vitoxin to "regulate" their serves.

I myself am not inclined to deliver any "evidence" because it could hurt my markets. Maybe there is a trader out there who wants to stop for any of reasons and willing to part with the intell.
You see, if too much dirt arises to the top it will hurt mainly those who are at the bottom of the chain. Maybe a few rare higher profile scapegoats will be sacrifized, but it will hardly have any influence on the overall market.

People claim that those who manufacture it are bad people. Yet they only manufacture it because others are willing to pay good money to obtain it.
Those are the ones who are putting it to use yet the producer of a product can easy change to another product if the demand and profit are better there.
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#165 - 2012-03-09 19:53:07 UTC
Theobar Cresthill wrote:

So, help me out. Where can I go to ask about the truth value of the things I am hearing? These accusations are totally opposite of the way I was raised and the way I saw my father and uncles live. The Hamrites do not do these things. I was taught that the use of vitoxin was a aberration. You all are saying that it is mainstream. Where am I supposed to go to find out the truth?

I am not just going to accept anyone's opinion. I need a trustworthy source.


You can start by questioning the things you've been taught. There's no source that's more trustworthy than yourself, after all. Check your central archives, ask questions of your physicians, read some medical studies of Vitoxin addiction.

If you want to know the truth, you're going to have to do some real digging; I can't promise you won't hit a few rocks along the way, but the answers you seek are there if you truly want them.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#166 - 2012-03-11 19:52:58 UTC
Why the deafening silence all of a sudden?

Doesn't the truth deserve the same vigor as your outcries for your cause?
Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
#167 - 2012-03-11 20:32:15 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
Why the deafening silence all of a sudden?

Doesn't the truth deserve the same vigor as your outcries for your cause?


There is silence because I am planning trips to visit with three people. I am going to see the Sisters, but before that, I am going to tell my father what I am doing. He deserves that much. After that, I will bring my findings to someone who is a veteran of the 24th IC and someone I trust. When I am done and have something to say, I will.

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)

Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#168 - 2012-03-12 11:46:37 UTC
Ah, so when you have your findings you aren't going to proclaim them as loudly as you were previous, but are going to look up someone trusted and keep things hush hush.

How convenient and typical.
Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
#169 - 2012-03-12 13:29:25 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
Ah, so when you have your findings you aren't going to proclaim them as loudly as you were previous, but are going to look up someone trusted and keep things hush hush.

How convenient and typical.


If I believe I have found evidence that condemns the Amarr Government, I will proclaim it loud and clear, just as I have regarding the Starkmir atrocity. Nothing will be kept hush hush. My reason for planning to speak to a 24IC person who has served the empire is so that I can get a reaction. My fellow Amarrians have been curiously silent on this thread and I want to know why.

As for you Killer, I don't think you really want me to find the truth, otherwise who would you insult? I think you want me to continue to post on this thread in ways that fuel your spite. I think you enjoy posting this way. Whatever blows your hair back, pal.

I'm trying to find a word that describes you, but I can't quite find it. Maybe the closest concept would be...

Gilipollas

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#170 - 2012-03-12 13:44:49 UTC
Theobar Cresthill wrote:
Killer Gandry wrote:
Why the deafening silence all of a sudden?

Doesn't the truth deserve the same vigor as your outcries for your cause?


There is silence because I am planning trips to visit with three people. I am going to see the Sisters, but before that, I am going to tell my father what I am doing. He deserves that much. After that, I will bring my findings to someone who is a veteran of the 24th IC and someone I trust. When I am done and have something to say, I will.



By the sisters, do you mean the Servant Sisters of EVE, AKA the heretical organization?

I like where you are going, Mr. Cresthill.
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#171 - 2012-03-12 18:48:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Killer Gandry
Theobar Cresthill wrote:

If I believe I have found evidence that condemns the Amarr Government, I will proclaim it loud and clear, just as I have regarding the Starkmir atrocity. Nothing will be kept hush hush. My reason for planning to speak to a 24IC person who has served the empire is so that I can get a reaction. My fellow Amarrians have been curiously silent on this thread and I want to know why.

As for you Killer, I don't think you really want me to find the truth, otherwise who would you insult? I think you want me to continue to post on this thread in ways that fuel your spite. I think you enjoy posting this way. Whatever blows your hair back, pal.

I'm trying to find a word that describes you, but I can't quite find it. Maybe the closest concept would be...

Gilipollas


Evidence isn't about believing. Evidence implies knowledge. So if you believe you found evidence it holds as much truth as someone wants to put into it and there is no real reason to be compelled there. Unless your basis relies on believing I reckon.

I couldn't care less if you do find a truth or not. In the big scheme you are irrelevant. Just a point of amusement.
And I keep my hair trim, there is no blowing back. Or do you believe it does?

Best word to describe me is Civire. If you prefer to use insults I am sure you can come up with far more creative names than:
fáviti
الأحمق
задник
мудак
subingalvis

Yes, my translator works well.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#172 - 2012-03-12 19:23:29 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Theobar Cresthill wrote:
Killer Gandry wrote:
Why the deafening silence all of a sudden?

Doesn't the truth deserve the same vigor as your outcries for your cause?


There is silence because I am planning trips to visit with three people. I am going to see the Sisters, but before that, I am going to tell my father what I am doing. He deserves that much. After that, I will bring my findings to someone who is a veteran of the 24th IC and someone I trust. When I am done and have something to say, I will.



By the sisters, do you mean the Servant Sisters of EVE, AKA the heretical organization?

I like where you are going, Mr. Cresthill.


The SOE are heretics ?
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#173 - 2012-03-12 19:46:16 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Theobar Cresthill wrote:
Killer Gandry wrote:
Why the deafening silence all of a sudden?

Doesn't the truth deserve the same vigor as your outcries for your cause?


There is silence because I am planning trips to visit with three people. I am going to see the Sisters, but before that, I am going to tell my father what I am doing. He deserves that much. After that, I will bring my findings to someone who is a veteran of the 24th IC and someone I trust. When I am done and have something to say, I will.



By the sisters, do you mean the Servant Sisters of EVE, AKA the heretical organization?

I like where you are going, Mr. Cresthill.


The SOE are heretics ?


Last I was aware, they were a non-Amarrian religious organization, yes.
Astera Zandraki
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#174 - 2012-03-13 09:30:29 UTC
Wouldn't that make them heathens, not heretics?
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#175 - 2012-03-13 12:26:11 UTC
Astera Zandraki wrote:
Wouldn't that make them heathens, not heretics?


It depends on how much Amarr theology found its way into their belief system.
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#176 - 2012-03-13 15:13:59 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:

It depends on how much Amarr theology found its way into their belief system.


Hopefully not too much. Else the humanitarian part would be dropped real soon.

Boma Airaken
Perkone
Caldari State
#177 - 2012-03-13 16:30:00 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:

It depends on how much Amarr theology found its way into their belief system.


Hopefully not too much. Else the humanitarian part would be dropped real soon.



How so?
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#178 - 2012-03-13 16:56:26 UTC
Boma Airaken wrote:
Killer Gandry wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:

It depends on how much Amarr theology found its way into their belief system.


Hopefully not too much. Else the humanitarian part would be dropped real soon.



How so?

Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
#179 - 2012-03-13 20:18:36 UTC
I set out for X-7OMU in my pod a few days ago. The Hamrites have always held the Sisters of EVE in high esteem. Until yesterday, I was never sure why. Until yesterday...

I have more study I must do. I must find out all I can about Vitoxin. The Sister's Archive is massive and they have been most helpful. I have been given unfettered access.

I have also begun a study of the missing fragments pertaining to the Starkmanir and the beginning of the Hamrites. We always thought that our collection was complete, but it isn't.

I will say more later, but now, i want to get back to my studies.

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)

Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#180 - 2012-03-13 20:48:53 UTC
Boma Airaken wrote:
Killer Gandry wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:

It depends on how much Amarr theology found its way into their belief system.


Hopefully not too much. Else the humanitarian part would be dropped real soon.



How so?



Amarr religion >>> Slavery
SOE >>> Humanitarian
Humanitarian and slavery are quit opposite last time I checked.
But this is ofcourse a none Amarr none slaveholder opinion and as such holds no means for the Ueberrace.