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Intergalactic Summit

 
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A Hamrite Journey (formerly: Amarr for the Glory of God)
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Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#101 - 2012-02-28 19:49:17 UTC
Theobar Cresthill wrote:



Who are you and why should I care about what you say?


You know perfectly well, considering you've attempted to "comment" on my statements on several occasions, with comical results.

This 'who are you and why should I care' response has been done much better by plenty of others. It only works if you don't really know the person you are dismissing, and even then only contributes to an air of dismissiveness if you've already developed that as part of your public persona, which you clearly have not... since you are so 'caring' and all.

So, fail. But do try again! This time with feeling!

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Astera Zandraki
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#102 - 2012-02-28 19:51:17 UTC
Yea, I'm not the type that can just sit down and meditate or anything like that. How about a whistle-stop tour? Meet some of your prisoners?
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#103 - 2012-02-28 19:56:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Astrid Stjerna
Theobar Cresthill wrote:
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Theobar Cresthill wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Astera Zandraki wrote:
You still haven't answered my question, Mr. Cresthill.


He's exceptionally good at selective quoting and picking on minor details to detract from the fact someone made a point he can't answer.


Don't be an idiot. The question was one that only God could answer; that is obvious.


Well, until God decides to honor us with his wisdom, the question was asked of you, Captain Cresthill, and you are coming up sadly short in the credibility department with all of your sidestepping.

The question was asked of you, and you need to provide an answer.


OK, let see if I have this right. You want me to answer the question of what percentage of people killed in any given incident go to heaven and what percent go to hell, right? You want me, even though I do not know the individuals involved to say how many went here or there, right? Sorry, but that is an idiotic question.


What's idiotic about it?

The average person is going to go to one place or the other. Let's try it like this:

Let's imagine a ship -- the USS Foo, we could call it, with a fifty-man crew. Given that criminals are generally not allowed to serve in a military command structure, we can assume that all fifty are average, hard-working, relatively honest and well-off people. I say 'relatively' because a certain amount of moral ambiguity is part-and-parcel of the human condition.

The USS Foo is destroyed byt he USS Bar, and all hands are lost. Given that they're average humans -- morally ambiguous in any given situation, but free of any truly 'criminal' tendencies -- which percentage of the USS Foo's crew would go to heaven, and which percentage would go to hell?

I'd be reasonably confident in assuming it's an 80%-20% split -- again, given the moral ambiguity that is our basic nature.

Would you agree?

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
#104 - 2012-02-28 20:00:09 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Theobar Cresthill wrote:


Who are you and why should I care about what you say?


You know perfectly well, considering you've attempted to "comment" on my statements on several occasions, with comical results.


Good, I'm glad that we have established that you care about what I say, seeing as you have taken the time to comment.

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)
Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
#105 - 2012-02-28 20:00:37 UTC
Astera Zandraki wrote:
Yea, I'm not the type that can just sit down and meditate or anything like that. How about a whistle-stop tour? Meet some of your prisoners?

Contact me to arrange a visit.

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#106 - 2012-02-28 20:01:58 UTC
Theobar Cresthill wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Theobar Cresthill wrote:


Who are you and why should I care about what you say?


You know perfectly well, considering you've attempted to "comment" on my statements on several occasions, with comical results.


Good, I'm glad that we have established that you care about what I say, seeing as you have taken the time to comment.


We all have a duty to point out rampant stupidity and inane points of view, Brother. I feel you'll keep me busy for some time to come in this respect.

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
#107 - 2012-02-28 20:04:29 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:


I'd be reasonably confident in assuming it's an 80%-20% split -- again, given the moral ambiguity that is our basic nature.

Would you agree?


Do you really care about this question or are you just mess'n with me? If you really care, I will try my very best to answer with a guess.

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#108 - 2012-02-28 21:08:34 UTC
Theobar Cresthill wrote:
Astrid Stjerna wrote:


I'd be reasonably confident in assuming it's an 80%-20% split -- again, given the moral ambiguity that is our basic nature.

Would you agree?


Do you really care about this question or are you just mess'n with me? If you really care, I will try my very best to answer with a guess.


I do care ahout the question, but probably not in the way you'd think.

I see so many of your fellow Amarrians hiding behind 'God isn't here to answer it' and avoiding having to actually draw a firm conclusion of their own. With all due respect, it's as though some of you are dependent on God to do your thinking for you.

I asked the question for two reasos: one, you said such questions were 'idiotic' earlier. I disagree on that point, but that's probably obvious by now. Two: throwing out your reasoning skills purely on the basis of God's inscrutability is nothing more than intellectual dishonesty, and I'd hoped that by bringing the question up, I might help you realize that.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
#109 - 2012-02-28 21:20:24 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Theobar Cresthill wrote:
Astrid Stjerna wrote:


I'd be reasonably confident in assuming it's an 80%-20% split -- again, given the moral ambiguity that is our basic nature.

Would you agree?


Do you really care about this question or are you just mess'n with me? If you really care, I will try my very best to answer with a guess.


I do care ahout the question, but probably not in the way you'd think.

I see so many of your fellow Amarrians hiding behind 'God isn't here to answer it' and avoiding having to actually draw a firm conclusion of their own. With all due respect, it's as though some of you are dependent on God to do your thinking for you.

I asked the question for two reasos: one, you said such questions were 'idiotic' earlier. I disagree on that point, but that's probably obvious by now. Two: throwing out your reasoning skills purely on the basis of God's inscrutability is nothing more than intellectual dishonesty, and I'd hoped that by bringing the question up, I might help you realize that.


Dear Ms. Stjerna,
I can respect your reasoning in this matter and I will apply what theology I have been taught to answer your question to the best of my ability. I need some time to think on it though, so I post again later with my answer. My answer will not be definitive, but like you, I will apply what I think is reasonable from Scripture, common sense, and experience to give you the most transparent opinion I can give. I'm sure those with greater theological experience could speculate with greater accuracy than I, but I will give it a go.

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#110 - 2012-02-28 22:28:34 UTC
Theobar Cresthill wrote:

Dear Ms. Stjerna,
I can respect your reasoning in this matter and I will apply what theology I have been taught to answer your question to the best of my ability. I need some time to think on it though, so I post again later with my answer. My answer will not be definitive, but like you, I will apply what I think is reasonable from Scripture, common sense, and experience to give you the most transparent opinion I can give. I'm sure those with greater theological experience could speculate with greater accuracy than I, but I will give it a go.


Sometimes, all we can do is give it our best shot. I eagerly await your reply.

(Incidentally, my name is Underking, now -- but I don't think CONCORD can change my router ident code, though, so I guess I'll have to get used to correcting people. In any case, call me Astrid).

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#111 - 2012-02-29 00:04:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
Theobar Cresthill wrote:
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Theobar Cresthill wrote:
[...] self-denial and unselfishness. [...]



Oh, really.

Simple way to prove that:

Get your own people to do their own shitwork that nobody actually wants to do, or at least, pay the people you currently use to do it for you.

With money, benefits, and terms for same negotiated through a standard employee-contract, I mean, not some forced solipsistic delusion of enlightenment that was archaic and backwards who knows how many millenia ago, from which your chattel doesn't get to go home at night at now.

Walk your walk, instead of throwing in everyone else's face your talk, or **** off.


Have you ever been to the Cresthill estate and observed the Cresthill brothers in the fields working with the held ones? No. My father and uncles are two hours on the worksite before and after slaves arrive for each day's work. They work themselves harder than any slave is worked. Are held ones are fed better, cared for better, educated better than any Caldari or Gallentean serf. Automation would be far more profitable for our family holdings but not better. Those who live on the Cresthill estate see the "walk" every day and most quickly come to believe the legitimacy of our faith because of what they see. How many of you capsuleer pilots give a rip about your crews? How many Corporate executives roll up their sleeves with their employees?

You and others like you through profanity in the face of anyone you hate or disagree with Mr. Nightstick. Do you think "standard employee contracts" like corps use such as Ishukone et.al. that drive emplyees to deal drugs and commit crimes just to make ends meet, enlightened? Do you think marking a teenager with a mark of disgrace then driving them to a life of silence or prostitution enlightened? Do you think telling a boys and girls that the secret to life is going to parties and getting drunk and then wonder why they grow us to hate life, enlightened? The Gallente, Caldari, and Matari "values" constantly get pushed into our faces, so you will excuse me if I do a little pushing myself.

And show a little self-control in your language, Mr. if you are so superior.


Anecdotal evidence without explicit proof =/= representative evidence.

And where is further proof of "Ishukone et al's [methods] driving people to deal drugs just to make ends meet?"

Again, explicit proof--from secular non-national/supra-national sources, OK--or GTFO.

E: I think I've shown plenty of self-control in my language, actually, Mr. Crotchcrab. Would you like me to change this? Because I can, you know.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
#112 - 2012-02-29 01:26:05 UTC
Dear Ms. Underhill,

I have not wanted to answer your question because the answer reveals that as a true religious reclaimer, I and my family hold to a very non-political and "dangerous" view regarding the Starkmanir. I have permission from my father and his brothers to tell our story in spite of the possible dangers we may face as a result.

My father, Theosotar Cresthill is what you could call a disciple of the late Arzad Hamri. The Holder Arzad Hamri held that Scripture taught that a holder who worked along side his slaves was more likely to lead them to the truth. He held, and subsequently my father and my uncles have held, that the holder's responsibility to his slaves is to treat them with honor and kindness rather than harshness. Like Hamri, the Cresthills take advantage of the richness of culture inherent within the slave community as long as it is consistent with Amarrian Scripture and faith. God was winning the Starkmanir through Arzad's compassionate holdership. Then the political holders in jealousy condemned him to death for they feared his power.

The Starkmanir were, in fact, becoming a rich addition to the fullness of the Amarr faith and spirituality. In a sense they were nearly a whole people converted under Arzad Hamri. All of the best, God-Created aspects of the Starkmanir rose to the top and flourished under Arzad Hamri's rule. Most of the Starkmanir considered Arzad Hamri as the Pastor of their faith.

You know the rest of the story of how Arzad Hamri was condemned to death because of political jealousy and that Arkon Ardishapur took over as ruler and basically undid all of the positive that Arzad had worked so hard to achieve. After his death, his xenophobic son Idonis under the terrible advice of Zorac made the awful decision to basically put to death a population of the faithful who had been converted through the service of Arzad Hamri. To this day, the Cresthills commemorate this act with grief.

So, in answer to your question, I believe that nearly all the Starkmanir killed by Idonis were in fact faithful and are now in paradise. Not everyone in the theology counsel then or now agrees with the political cowardice exercised at that time. To this day many religious reclaimers like the Cresthills hold firmly to the theological interpretations of Arzad Hamri who was perhaps one of the greatest holders and spiritual pastors of all time.

For the sake of a number? Maybe 95% of those killed in that slaughter are in Heaven, for that is probably close to the percent of those who followed God under Arzad. Only those who held to depravity and rejection of God's mercy are lost.

There you have it. Let the chips fall where God wills for me saying this.

Theobar.

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)
Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
#113 - 2012-02-29 18:24:25 UTC
It looks as if the Cresthill Estate and the Hamri Meditation Center on Oris will be arranging a tour after-all for Miss Zandraki. We are hopeful that this will create a spirit of understanding between divergent points of view. I will do my best to keep this thread up to date on how that process goes.

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#114 - 2012-02-29 18:25:50 UTC
Theobar Cresthill wrote:
Dear Ms. Underhill,

I have not wanted to answer your question because the answer reveals that as a true religious reclaimer, I and my family hold to a very non-political and "dangerous" view regarding the Starkmanir. I have permission from my father and his brothers to tell our story in spite of the possible dangers we may face as a result.

My father, Theosotar Cresthill is what you could call a disciple of the late Arzad Hamri. The Holder Arzad Hamri held that Scripture taught that a holder who worked along side his slaves was more likely to lead them to the truth. He held, and subsequently my father and my uncles have held, that the holder's responsibility to his slaves is to treat them with honor and kindness rather than harshness. Like Hamri, the Cresthills take advantage of the richness of culture inherent within the slave community as long as it is consistent with Amarrian Scripture and faith. God was winning the Starkmanir through Arzad's compassionate holdership. Then the political holders in jealousy condemned him to death for they feared his power.

The Starkmanir were, in fact, becoming a rich addition to the fullness of the Amarr faith and spirituality. In a sense they were nearly a whole people converted under Arzad Hamri. All of the best, God-Created aspects of the Starkmanir rose to the top and flourished under Arzad Hamri's rule. Most of the Starkmanir considered Arzad Hamri as the Pastor of their faith.

You know the rest of the story of how Arzad Hamri was condemned to death because of political jealousy and that Arkon Ardishapur took over as ruler and basically undid all of the positive that Arzad had worked so hard to achieve. After his death, his xenophobic son Idonis under the terrible advice of Zorac made the awful decision to basically put to death a population of the faithful who had been converted through the service of Arzad Hamri. To this day, the Cresthills commemorate this act with grief.

So, in answer to your question, I believe that nearly all the Starkmanir killed by Idonis were in fact faithful and are now in paradise. Not everyone in the theology counsel then or now agrees with the political cowardice exercised at that time. To this day many religious reclaimers like the Cresthills hold firmly to the theological interpretations of Arzad Hamri who was perhaps one of the greatest holders and spiritual pastors of all time.

For the sake of a number? Maybe 95% of those killed in that slaughter are in Heaven, for that is probably close to the percent of those who followed God under Arzad. Only those who held to depravity and rejection of God's mercy are lost.

There you have it. Let the chips fall where God wills for me saying this.

Theobar.


I appreciate your candor, and the risk you're taking by posting this. 'Reductio ad deum', in my books, has always been a poorly-constructed argument, and I'm glad to see that you're willing to avoid that tactic.

(And...Underking, not Underhill. Just saying.) Smile

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#115 - 2012-02-29 19:29:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
After eight years of this same tired argument, you people manage another six pages of it? Really?

... oh, and also..

Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Theobar Cresthill wrote:
Dear Ms. Underhill,

(And...Underking, not Underhill. Just saying.) Smile


.. it's a pun. His name is Cresthill, as in the top of a hill. Your name is being twisted rather cleverly to Underhill, because you are 'under' Cresthill.

Katrina Oniseki
Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
#116 - 2012-02-29 19:49:42 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
After eight years of this same tired argument, you people manage another six pages of it? Really?

... oh, and also..

Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Theobar Cresthill wrote:
Dear Ms. Underhill,

(And...Underking, not Underhill. Just saying.) Smile


.. it's a pun. His name is Cresthill, as in the top of a hill. Your name is being twisted rather cleverly to Underhill, because you are 'under' Cresthill.


Frankly, I'm not that clever. It was a mistake because of a name common to a favorite children's fable from my early life. My apologies, Ms. Underking.

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)
Astera Zandraki
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#117 - 2012-03-01 10:32:58 UTC
I am going to visit Mr. Cresthill's estates to see the extent of the human rights abuses present.
Mikkel Lybecker
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2012-03-03 02:44:41 UTC
Just posting in this thread so I can get automatic notifications whenever somebody else does. Carry on discussing, everyone.
Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
#119 - 2012-03-03 17:27:39 UTC
"And they stood before Him,
bathed in His light.
Yet their eyes were blind,
Their hearts rebellious,
And their minds refused the Lord.
Darkness descended upon them,
Spreading inside their minds,
And the flames of the Lord died within them.
Yet one flame remained,
And within this flame, the Lord found faith renewed.
Casting the others into obscurity,
The Lord turned to the one"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First 1:3

Yesterday, I completed the first two combat missions of my service to the 24th IC. After the danger was past and my crew and I took respite station-side, I led evening vespers with the above Scripture. It is a reminder of why I joined the 24th IC and the path of reclaiming that I am called to follow so that wandering ones may come share in the flame of faith. Some perhaps do not understand the meaning of the insignia that I keep from my battles. They are not trophies from the dead. No, they are reminders of how many are trying to snuff out the fire of God and the need to destroy those who attempt to do so. May God have mercy on their souls.

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#120 - 2012-03-05 17:48:04 UTC
Theobar Cresthill wrote:

...Some perhaps do not understand the meaning of the insignia that I keep from my battles. They are not trophies from the dead. No, they are reminders of how many are trying to snuff out the fire of God and the need to destroy those who attempt to do so. May God have mercy on their souls.



If you backpedal any faster you'll soon attain escape velocity and fly off into space. Nice try though.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.