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Bioware and DLC
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Kithrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-02-23 19:48:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Kithrus
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/9422865

I'm going to report what I said there incase people can't see it.

I was going to buy ME3 but I can't. I had it preordered but I have called the store and cancelled.

the New DLC should be free.

I respected bioware for not nickel and diming me to death. I Respected the Ceberus Network purchase and the move done with Shale DLC for Dragon Age Origins but this is wrong.

If I buy mass effect three now you will do this again and next time it will be worse. I can't support you anymore and it brakes my heart that I can't finish the story but gamers need to stand up to companies and tell them to not treat us like walking wallets.

I won't even Pirate it so EA can't use this as an excuse for Sopa later.

I'm Sorry Bioware but no more.

For the record I have Screens shotted and time stamped logs of this thread and will be linking it elsewhere if its removed well.... see how well that goes.

Stephen VanBoekel of Peterborough Canada.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#2 - 2012-02-23 19:55:08 UTC
http://youtu.be/Ri0vrJ-y2zM

You are not the only one. Bioware and EA crossed the line long ago, this is just their latest stunt.

RIP Bioware 2007.
Kithrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-02-23 20:21:52 UTC
2bhammered wrote:
http://youtu.be/Ri0vrJ-y2zM

You are not the only one. Bioware and EA crossed the line long ago, this is just their latest stunt.

RIP Bioware 2007.


Yeah I'm starting to see that now I should have stood up sooner. Maybe if more people did then they wouldn't be here now.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-02-23 20:26:57 UTC
2bhammered wrote:
http://youtu.be/Ri0vrJ-y2zM

You are not the only one. Bioware and EA crossed the line long ago, this is just their latest stunt.

RIP Bioware 2007.


You are obviously not aware that the Prothean character is in every single edition of the game? He is "on the disk" because hes part of the plot and no matter what edition of the game you have the character is there. Nothing is missed or cut out at all, everyone gets the important plot and story lines.

But if you want the Prothean as a squadmate you have to buy the collectors edition. Bitching about the CE is just self entitled bullshit, its really simple more money = more product. Thats a basic fact of consumerism.
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#5 - 2012-02-23 20:36:54 UTC  |  Edited by: 2bhammered
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
http://youtu.be/Ri0vrJ-y2zM

You are not the only one. Bioware and EA crossed the line long ago, this is just their latest stunt.

RIP Bioware 2007.


You are obviously not aware that the Prothean character is in every single edition of the game? He is "on the disk" because hes part of the plot and no matter what edition of the game you have the character is there. Nothing is missed or cut out at all, everyone gets the important plot and story lines.

But if you want the Prothean as a squadmate you have to buy the collectors edition. Bitching about the CE is just self entitled bullshit, its really simple more money = more product. Thats a basic fact of consumerism.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dflNUb_Po1c
Kithrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-02-23 20:39:11 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
http://youtu.be/Ri0vrJ-y2zM

You are not the only one. Bioware and EA crossed the line long ago, this is just their latest stunt.

RIP Bioware 2007.


You are obviously not aware that the Prothean character is in every single edition of the game? He is "on the disk" because hes part of the plot and no matter what edition of the game you have the character is there. Nothing is missed or cut out at all, everyone gets the important plot and story lines.

But if you want the Prothean as a squadmate you have to buy the collectors edition. Bitching about the CE is just self entitled bullshit, its really simple more money = more product. Thats a basic fact of consumerism.



No the issues is why do they make content alongside the main development of the game that could be including in the game but charge me 10 bucks 20 bucks for? How is that justified? If they released this post launch and were working on it after the completed version of the game was out then sure but this was done deliberately from the get go.

That is a huge difference.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-02-23 20:56:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran
2bhammered wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
http://youtu.be/Ri0vrJ-y2zM

You are not the only one. Bioware and EA crossed the line long ago, this is just their latest stunt.

RIP Bioware 2007.


You are obviously not aware that the Prothean character is in every single edition of the game? He is "on the disk" because hes part of the plot and no matter what edition of the game you have the character is there. Nothing is missed or cut out at all, everyone gets the important plot and story lines.

But if you want the Prothean as a squadmate you have to buy the collectors edition. Bitching about the CE is just self entitled bullshit, its really simple more money = more product. Thats a basic fact of consumerism.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQIjnzK5R2I&feature=related


Welcome to the real world son, just about every single company in the world is in your wallet or trying to get in your wallet. Thats just a simple fact of life. Games just happen to be one of the best value for money forms of entertainment there is.

You know the cost of the CE just isnt that much right? £60, I mean sixty ******* quid that's peanuts. Most players would get a couple of playthroughs if they enjoy the game, then there's the multi player so getting 40-50 hours out of the game is possible. Compare that to:-

Going to the cinema to see Safe House = £8.30 per ticket, run time 114 mins.

Game of Thrones season one box set = £36.99, 10 episodes + extra features (10-15 hours runtime)

The list could go on, but that should be enough to make my point. £60 in the real world, today is not that much money at all compared to the general cost of entertainment.

Kithrus wrote:
No the issues is why do they make content alongside the main development of the game that could be including in the game but charge me 10 bucks 20 bucks for? How is that justified? If they released this post launch and were working on it after the completed version of the game was out then sure but this was done deliberately from the get go.

That is a huge difference.


That extra content didn't create itself, Bioware had to invest resources into it. They made the investment so they could offer a premium product to the people willing to pay for it.

Its as simple as that.
Kithrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-02-23 21:00:02 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
http://youtu.be/Ri0vrJ-y2zM

You are not the only one. Bioware and EA crossed the line long ago, this is just their latest stunt.

RIP Bioware 2007.


You are obviously not aware that the Prothean character is in every single edition of the game? He is "on the disk" because hes part of the plot and no matter what edition of the game you have the character is there. Nothing is missed or cut out at all, everyone gets the important plot and story lines.

But if you want the Prothean as a squadmate you have to buy the collectors edition. Bitching about the CE is just self entitled bullshit, its really simple more money = more product. Thats a basic fact of consumerism.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQIjnzK5R2I&feature=related


Welcome to the real world son, just about every single company in the world is in your wallet or trying to get in your wallet. Thats just a simple fact of life. Games just happen to be one of the best value for money forms of entertainment there is.

You know the cost of the CE just isnt that much right? £60, I mean sixty ******* quid that's peanuts. Most players would get a couple of playthroughs if the like the game, then there's the multi player so getting 40-50 hours out of the game is possible. Compare that to:-

Going to the cinema to see Safe House = £8.30 per ticket, run time 114 mins.

Game of Thrones season one box set = £36.99, 10 episodes + extra features (10-15 hours runtime)

The list could go on, but that should be enough to make my point. £60 in the real world, today is not that much money at all compared to the general cost of entertainment.




So at what point is it too far? So because them being unethical now in an affordable sense is okay till it becomes major price gouging?

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-02-23 21:06:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran
Kithrus wrote:
So at what point is it too far? So because them being unethical now in an affordable sense is okay till it becomes major price gouging?


An extreme example of a publisher going to far would be Ubisoft with Dungeon Hunter, Dungeon Hunter is basically a generic hack and slash game. You can buy it as a Mac application for 99 cents, or you can buy it for the PS3 for $10 or so.

Ubisoft though are going to re-release it on the PS Vita for $40. Thats an extreme example of course but it puts into perspective what real price gouging looks like.
Kithrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-02-23 21:12:39 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Kithrus wrote:
So at what point is it too far? So because them being unethical now in an affordable sense is okay till it becomes major price gouging?


An extreme example of a publisher going to far would be Ubisoft with Dungeon Hunter, Dungeon Hunter is basically a generic hack and slash game. You can buy it as a Mac application for 99 cents, or you can buy it for the PS3 for $10 or so.

Ubisoft though are going to re-release it on the PS Vita for $40. Thats an extreme example of course but it puts into perspective what real price gouging looks like.


Okay but that doesn't tell me at what point is the customer supposed to put his foot down to snap the company back to reality.

How far do we let this go on? They are only getting away with it because its mass effect 3. also there is no reason for them to not do it again worse then before.

Can I afford this? Sure but I shouldn't have too is the problem.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#11 - 2012-02-23 21:19:20 UTC  |  Edited by: 2bhammered
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Kithrus wrote:
So at what point is it too far? So because them being unethical now in an affordable sense is okay till it becomes major price gouging?


An extreme example of a publisher going to far would be Ubisoft with Dungeon Hunter, Dungeon Hunter is basically a generic hack and slash game. You can buy it as a Mac application for 99 cents, or you can buy it for the PS3 for $10 or so.

Ubisoft though are going to re-release it on the PS Vita for $40. Thats an extreme example of course but it puts into perspective what real price gouging looks like.



Shocked Now just wait a minute!!

Jhagiti Tyran wrote:

Welcome to the real world son, just about every single company in the world is in your wallet or trying to get in your wallet. Thats just a simple fact of life. Games just happen to be one of the best value for money forms of entertainment there is.

You know the cost of the CE just isnt that much right? £60, I mean sixty ******* quid that's peanuts. Most players would get a couple of playthroughs if they enjoy the game, then there's the multi player so getting 40-50 hours out of the game is possible. Compare that to:-

Going to the cinema to see Safe House = £8.30 per ticket, run time 114 mins.

Game of Thrones season one box set = £36.99, 10 episodes + extra features (10-15 hours runtime)

The list could go on, but that should be enough to make my point. £60 in the real world, today is not that much money at all compared to the general cost of entertainment.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#12 - 2012-02-23 21:19:28 UTC
Well just buy the game and not the DLC, what is the big deal.

Do you feel like you have to buy plex everytime CCP advertises or so, or have like 20 power of two accounts going?

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-02-23 21:25:10 UTC
Kithrus wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Kithrus wrote:
So at what point is it too far? So because them being unethical now in an affordable sense is okay till it becomes major price gouging?


An extreme example of a publisher going to far would be Ubisoft with Dungeon Hunter, Dungeon Hunter is basically a generic hack and slash game. You can buy it as a Mac application for 99 cents, or you can buy it for the PS3 for $10 or so.

Ubisoft though are going to re-release it on the PS Vita for $40. Thats an extreme example of course but it puts into perspective what real price gouging looks like.


Okay but that doesn't tell me at what point is the customer supposed to put his foot down to snap the company back to reality.

How far do we let this go on? They are only getting away with it because its mass effect 3. also there is no reason for them to not do it again worse then before.

Can I afford this? Sure but I shouldn't have too is the problem.


The point the customer "puts the foot down" comes when they feel that the products value for money simply isn't good enough, the same way you have. You decided in your subjective opinion that ME3 isn't good enough value for you so you don't buy it.

Theres no right or wrong about your decision, it is what it is, just like my own subjective opinion that £60 isn't that much is neither right or wrong. Generally market forces will dictate it in the end, if a company annoys enough customers to the extent that profitability suffers thats a good sign that they are taking it to far. The they will either improve their products value for money or go **** up, like THQ are atm.

Personally though I do find some of the self entitled and petulant whining (not accusing you of that, your post was OK) to be hilarious.
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#14 - 2012-02-23 21:46:00 UTC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_DCJ3ZJpT8&feature=related
(Why I think TotalBiscuit has gone too far with Mass Effect 3)

Devils advocate!


However...

I strongly disagree with Tyran and that guy on youtube and I think his arguments are flawed and stupid to make on behalf of Bioware. Also I have a hard time understanding why they take the time to do so.

It seems most gamers tend to agree with the OP all over the internet on every blog and forum so if we are just going to call it all an opinion, well it is at least an opinion I share with most people then and most tend to agree Bioware has gone too far.
Blane Xero
The Firestorm Cartel
#15 - 2012-02-23 21:47:30 UTC
My opinion on this: I never bought, nor paid a single dime, cent, krona, isk, penny or bottlecap [or nay other form of measured, or unmeasured currency] on ME2, but I enjoyed it when I played it.

I'll likely repeat this choice of direction on ME3. Day one DLC is a farce, and saying "hey, it's DLC because we finished finalising the disk before all the content was on it" [Which is the truth of what they are saying] is just bullshit. You do not finalise a game when you still have ideas, and development time allotted to said game. The minute you start doing that, you cut the "Game" shorter and shorter and the "DLC" starts getting larger and larger, whilst being split into more parts for more $$.

Resident Haruhiist since December 2008.

Laying claim to Out of Pod Experience since 2007, plain and simple. Keep the trash out of [u]Out Of Pod Experience[/u], If it's EVE Related or deserves a Lock, it does not belong here.
Kithrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-02-23 22:53:01 UTC
Blane Xero wrote:
My opinion on this: I never bought, nor paid a single dime, cent, krona, isk, penny or bottlecap [or nay other form of measured, or unmeasured currency] on ME2, but I enjoyed it when I played it.

I'll likely repeat this choice of direction on ME3. Day one DLC is a farce, and saying "hey, it's DLC because we finished finalising the disk before all the content was on it" [Which is the truth of what they are saying] is just bullshit. You do not finalise a game when you still have ideas, and development time allotted to said game. The minute you start doing that, you cut the "Game" shorter and shorter and the "DLC" starts getting larger and larger, whilst being split into more parts for more $$.


Day One DLC is a Crime doesn't matter whats in it. It should be free or in the game. I paid them for that development time in the price of the game they are double dipping into my wallet.

I'm glad we agree sir.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-02-23 23:15:03 UTC
Kithrus wrote:
Day One DLC is a Crime doesn't matter whats in it. It should be free or in the game. I paid them for that development time in the price of the game they are double dipping into my wallet.

I'm glad we agree sir.


Day one DLC does suck, but this isn't strictly a day one DLC. Its part of the collectors edition content, being able to buy as a DLC is basically dividing up the CE into smaller additional chunks and reducing the barrier of entry for the people that don't want to buy the full collectors edition. If Bioware had content from day one that was only available as DLC I would be fairly disgusted myself, having a premium option in the form of the CE isn't the same though.

The fans begged Bioware to release the content from the CE and preorder offers from ME2 as DLC because they wanted some way to get them.

Do you object to people being able to buy a premium product for extra money and do you object to publishers rewarding the fans who either pre order a game or buy it new? Thats the argument you are making. Most people seem to be ignoring a genuine question about the value of the extra content also, they are so enraged about the existence of it they don't seem to have raised the issue of "is it actually worth $10?"

That should be the real question.
Blane Xero
The Firestorm Cartel
#18 - 2012-02-24 02:01:34 UTC
@Jhagiti, watch TotalBiscuit / TotalHalibut's 25~ minute youtube video on this whole subject. Thats my POV and I very much believe him to be completely correct on his position and the arguements he makes.

Resident Haruhiist since December 2008.

Laying claim to Out of Pod Experience since 2007, plain and simple. Keep the trash out of [u]Out Of Pod Experience[/u], If it's EVE Related or deserves a Lock, it does not belong here.
Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-02-24 02:16:34 UTC
Day one DLC may be a farce, but it's not causing me to cancel my preorder, I just won't buy it until it's part of a discount DLC bundle in the near future. People love to "take a stand" by overreacting because it makes them feel special, like they're doing something, when in reality the majority doesn't care as for many $10 is pocket change and they have the capacity to determine if its a worthwhile purchase before shelling out the money.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-02-24 02:29:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran
So much for the boycott. Amazon are completely out of stock for the CE across all platforms.
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