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Mining.... its missing something

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Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#61 - 2012-02-24 19:51:01 UTC
Actually, academic papers on market theory only explain why he holds the view he does, they say nothing about EvE market dynamics.

I do understand economics, and game design.

Having the hulk as top miner made sense at the time, as did keeping it at the top for a long time after, but since then there have been ships added to the combat side that take more minerals to make and draw more isk from the available fountains.

Thus, without hard numbers and historical data beyond what is released in the CCP economic review it is really impossible to call what the net effect of a miner that can out-produce a hulk would be at this stage of the game.

Anyone claiming otherwise is just too impressed with their own cleverness for reasonable discussion.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
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GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#62 - 2012-02-24 20:01:19 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Actually, academic papers on market theory only explain why he holds the view he does, they say nothing about EvE market dynamics.

I do understand economics, and game design.

Having the hulk as top miner made sense at the time, as did keeping it at the top for a long time after, but since then there have been ships added to the combat side that take more minerals to make and draw more isk from the available fountains.

Thus, without hard numbers and historical data beyond what is released in the CCP economic review it is really impossible to call what the net effect of a miner that can out-produce a hulk would be at this stage of the game.

Anyone claiming otherwise is just too impressed with their own cleverness for reasonable discussion.


finally someone that understands why its of no use discussing something without hard facts. High 5 m8!

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Velicitia
XS Tech
#63 - 2012-02-24 21:15:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Buzzy Warstl wrote:

Having the hulk as top miner made sense at the time, as did keeping it at the top for a long time after, but since then there have been ships added to the combat side that take more minerals to make and draw more isk from the available fountains.


Hulk was released in '06 as part of RMR (as already stated). Carriers, Motherships, and Titans were all released at this time as well.

The only T1 ships that have been released since then (that I can recall):
- Rorqual --> Rev II (summer '07)
- Orca --> Quantum Rise (winter '08)
- Noctis --> Incursion (Winter '10)
- Naga/Oracle/Talos/Tornado --> Crucible (winter '11)

Crucible is (as far as I can tell) the only expansion that has pretty well screwed with the mineral basket. However, I'm not going to attribute that to the four new ships -- their combined mineral need is still significantly less than that of a capship.

Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Thus, without hard numbers and historical data beyond what is released in the CCP economic review it is really impossible to call what the net effect of a miner that can out-produce a hulk would be at this stage of the game.


So, rather than looking at what we know, and drawing conclusions from that ... you're just going to write it off and jump on board with "well, more minerals are a good thing".

Of the 3194 nullsec systems we can visit (IIRC, there are 230 or so in the Jove regions), there are 689 in the drone lands (21%). How can anyone argue that adding a ship with a 3:1 advantage in the remaining 79% of nullsec, CCP would not completely break the supply side of mining?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Jenshae Chiroptera
#64 - 2012-02-24 23:43:07 UTC
I would say it is a tough choice between this and the idea about the mining structure, which remote reps. I think the repper would have more planning, conflict and be more interesting than just having a huge ship, which could probably be hot dropped and ganked anyway. What?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

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EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#65 - 2012-02-24 23:49:38 UTC
Yeah, I'm kinda leery of this ship myself on playability grounds, but I thought arguing against it on the basis of what it would do to the EvE economy was blasted silly.

I could see using a block of these in a nullsec mining-improved system to clear the grav belts, but I'm not sure they'd be adequately defendable outside that situation, and that's a pretty narrow market,

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
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GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#66 - 2012-02-25 11:42:23 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I would say it is a tough choice between this and the idea about the mining structure, which remote reps. I think the repper would have more planning, conflict and be more interesting than just having a huge ship, which could probably be hot dropped and ganked anyway. What?


well ganking a capital ship is hard, and this one especially since you gotta find it first since it will most likely mine at grav sites. and could you tell me the idea of the so called "Mining structure"? or link the topic? would love to read it.

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Jenshae Chiroptera
#67 - 2012-02-25 14:34:36 UTC
Battle On wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I would say it is a tough choice between this and the idea about the mining structure, which remote reps. I think the repper would have more planning, conflict and be more interesting than just having a huge ship, which could probably be hot dropped and ganked anyway. What?


well ganking a capital ship is hard, and this one especially since you gotta find it first since it will most likely mine at grav sites. and could you tell me the idea of the so called "Mining structure"? or link the topic? would love to read it.


They aren't very clear but the basic idea looks simple enough, I like the abbreviation, a good deal of angst in it. Big smile

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Battle On
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#68 - 2012-02-25 14:48:57 UTC
to be honest, its not worked out that well like how much to not make it overpowered but still usefull etc. besides that, it doesnt chance anything to the amount of isk miners make these days (which is very low compared to the risk involved these days)

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Velicitia
XS Tech
#69 - 2012-02-25 23:37:16 UTC
Risk? what ******* risk is there in mining?

just keep tabs on "known gankers" and don't mine within a few jumps from trade hubs... I mean, seriously, it's not exactly difficult to not get ganked...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Jenshae Chiroptera
#70 - 2012-02-27 16:05:02 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Risk? what ******* risk is there in mining?

just keep tabs on "known gankers" and don't mine within a few jumps from trade hubs... I mean, seriously, it's not exactly difficult to not get ganked...


"LOL mining n00b no read OP." Roll

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.