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Mining.... its missing something

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Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2012-02-23 21:11:03 UTC
Battle On wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Battle On wrote:

so either come up with some new arguments or just close your mouth and move on, because we are atm running in circles here....


For which you are responsible for since you arent proving anything to support your claims and hold nothing but a biased argument whilst in denial and showing a distinct lack of knowledge or awareness about the game.

Not fooling anyone bud about simply being passionate about "forcing" your idea through however.


im pritty sure i got more experience then you do. i at least played longer then 3 months ;-)
and btw, no1 can proof that this ship will or will not affect the market, since thats the future (and last i checked there is no way of going into the future).
but it seems that you are just out of arguments atm so you are trying to take it personal (aka "lack of knowledge or awareness about the game"), which is not that impressive and is not going to bring you any fame or what so ever.

so this discussion is over since you failed and went over to personal insults. good day.


Sorry if I hurt your ego, or the fact that an alt for an NPC corp knows a little bit more about the game than you.

Nothing personal about it however. You have demonstrated invalid points, incorrect assumptions and have not supported your claims designed to give credability to your design other than selfish meta capabilities. It is purely an objective assesment of your argument or should I say lack thereof.

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Velicitia
XS Tech
#42 - 2012-02-23 21:12:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Battle On wrote:


all the minerals i mined was used in capital build and 1 station (1N-FJ8). and more capitals doesnt matter, since they are needed for battles in nullsec so they will eventually pop. and station, whats a bad thing about that?


When I lived down in null (a few years back), all the mins I mined were used in NOL-M9, J-LPX7, and (obviously) the super production POSes that were in the area, and I know that the alliance brought down **** TONNES of lowends from hisec (oh, the horrors of doing that before the days of JFs).

Capitals are already highly prevalent, they don't need to be made easier for nullsec people to obtain (they're already pretty "easy" as it is). Seriously, there's already enough of a wall for empire entities to get into nullsec without it being even easier for nullsec alliances to crank out (super)caps.

Stations being spammed all over the place simply make space smaller, and that's just not fun (I liked running with the "deepspace" mining crews based out of a POS/rorqual for 3-4 days before hauling our loot back to a refinery)


Now, what you're failing to take into account (which the rest of us are) is that while this won't change the drone regions, it WILL change what the other regions are importing. You *HAVE* to take that into account -- Jita moves something like a trillion units of trit per day, at 4+ ISK/unit. Taking say 25% of that out of the equation means that the (inflated) trit prices will start falling back to ~3 ISK/unit. And then that's just trit we're talking about ... the same thing will happen for all the other minerals (even the highends -- just because you aren't exporting to empire, doesn't mean other alliances aren't).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Battle On
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#43 - 2012-02-23 21:25:40 UTC
Velicitia wrote:

When I lived down in null (a few years back), all the mins I mined were used in NOL-M9, J-LPX7, and (obviously) the super production POSes that were in the area, and I know that the alliance brought down **** TONNES of lowends from hisec (oh, the horrors of doing that before the days of JFs).


indeed, its a terrible job to do, even with the JF's. its one of the reasons why i came up with this ship. the other fact is, is that alot of miners are looking for a way in to nullsec and simply arent allowed because of their poor skill. now they get a chance to do so.

Quote:
Capitals are already highly prevalent, they don't need to be made easier for nullsec people to obtain (they're already pretty "easy" as it is). Seriously, there's already enough of a wall for empire entities to get into nullsec without it being even easier for nullsec alliances to crank out (super)caps.


it wont be easier to get capitals made. its just that instead of hauling it, you mine it and with mining you also increase the industrial lvl of that system which is at this moment lvl 0 in most of the nullsec systems.

[quote[Stations being spammed all over the place simply make space smaller, and that's just not fun (I liked running with the "deepspace" mining crews based out of a POS/rorqual for 3-4 days before hauling our loot back to a refinery)[/quote]

thats tbh your own personal opinion. back in nullsec i used to mine every day and at the end of the day i hauled to the refinary or someone else did it for me.


Quote:
Now, what you're failing to take into account (which the rest of us are) is that while this won't change the drone regions, it WILL change what the other regions are importing. You *HAVE* to take that into account -- Jita moves something like a trillion units of trit per day, at 4+ ISK/unit. Taking say 25% of that out of the equation means that the (inflated) trit prices will start falling back to ~3 ISK/unit. And then that's just trit we're talking about ... the same thing will happen for all the other minerals (even the highends -- just because you aren't exporting to empire, doesn't mean other alliances aren't).


^ i didnt left this out. if you read back i fully said that drone region prob wont have these miners since they get minerals out of loot from drones. it will only change for the regions that are hauling. also, like you said it yourself, in the other regions the minerals are used for own build, not for sales. so the market prices wont really chance. besides that, since incursion yield so much money, everything will go up in price.

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Velicitia
XS Tech
#44 - 2012-02-23 21:46:43 UTC
Battle On wrote:
it wont be easier to get capitals made. its just that instead of hauling it, you mine it

So, getting everything locally, rather than ensuring you have a good supply chain between "home" and Jita is somehow not easier?


Battle On wrote:

Quote:
Now, what you're failing to take into account (which the rest of us are) is that while this won't change the drone regions, it WILL change what the other regions are importing. You *HAVE* to take that into account -- Jita moves something like a trillion units of trit per day, at 4+ ISK/unit. Taking say 25% of that out of the equation means that the (inflated) trit prices will start falling back to ~3 ISK/unit. And then that's just trit we're talking about ... the same thing will happen for all the other minerals (even the highends -- just because you aren't exporting to empire, doesn't mean other alliances aren't).


^ i didnt left this out. if you read back i fully said that drone region prob wont have these miners since they get minerals out of loot from drones. it will only change for the regions that are hauling. also, like you said it yourself, in the other regions the minerals are used for own build, not for sales. so the market prices wont really chance. besides that, since incursion yield so much money, everything will go up in price.



ugh, no... you have it backwards. I'm just making up BS numbers here to keep things simple.

Alliance A lives in Branch. They're building (super)capitals by importing lowends, and exporting excess hi-ends (because they have a huge abundance). They're importing 1 billion trit, 500m pyer, 250m mex, 125m iso from Jita (i.e. buy in Jita, use in Branch).

Jita moves 10b trit, 5b Pyer, 2,5b mex, and 1.25b Iso in the same timeframe. Prices are stable at 4/5/50/63 (i.e. supply and demand are close enough that the prices move +/- a negligible amount every 2-week cycle).

Your new ship gets put in game. Alliance A gets their miners into one (however many miners it happens to be). Since Trit/Pyer/Mex/Iso are all easier to mine, rather than import ... they stop going to Jita.

Jita still moves the same number of mins in a 2 week period, but since the demand drops by 10%, the prices start coming down. No biggie, right?

Well, now, alliance B (who was supplying Jita lowends) has gotten their hands on one of these ... and INCREASES their bi-weekly production by 15%. Now the supply in jita is at least 15 percent ABOVE demand ... and prices start coming down some more.

After a while (and the nullsec alliances start spamming these like crazy), Jita starts ONLY supplying hisec buyers... the demand falls to say 25% of what it used to be ... but the supply is now 50% higher than what it used to be...

sure, cheap minerals are great in making cheap ships and the pvp guys are happy ... but now think about the rookie miner pulling in 100m3 of veldspar every minute in his probe, and having to sell it at 2 ISK (or lower) per unit because the demand just isn't there...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Battle On
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#45 - 2012-02-23 22:02:25 UTC
Velicitia wrote:

ugh, no... you have it backwards. I'm just making up BS numbers here to keep things simple.

Alliance A lives in Branch. They're building (super)capitals by importing lowends, and exporting excess hi-ends (because they have a huge abundance). They're importing 1 billion trit, 500m pyer, 250m mex, 125m iso from Jita (i.e. buy in Jita, use in Branch).

Jita moves 10b trit, 5b Pyer, 2,5b mex, and 1.25b Iso in the same timeframe. Prices are stable at 4/5/50/63 (i.e. supply and demand are close enough that the prices move +/- a negligible amount every 2-week cycle).

Your new ship gets put in game. Alliance A gets their miners into one (however many miners it happens to be). Since Trit/Pyer/Mex/Iso are all easier to mine, rather than import ... they stop going to Jita.

Jita still moves the same number of mins in a 2 week period, but since the demand drops by 10%, the prices start coming down. No biggie, right?

Well, now, alliance B (who was supplying Jita lowends) has gotten their hands on one of these ... and INCREASES their bi-weekly production by 15%. Now the supply in jita is at least 15 percent ABOVE demand ... and prices start coming down some more.

After a while (and the nullsec alliances start spamming these like crazy), Jita starts ONLY supplying hisec buyers... the demand falls to say 25% of what it used to be ... but the supply is now 50% higher than what it used to be...

sure, cheap minerals are great in making cheap ships and the pvp guys are happy ... but now think about the rookie miner pulling in 100m3 of veldspar every minute in his probe, and having to sell it at 2 ISK (or lower) per unit because the demand just isn't there...



i honestly dont think thats what going to happen. this is my view:

At the moment, Alliance A is getting everything out of highsec since they have only 50-75 hulks in their alliance and use those minerals themselfs. so they go to jita and buy all they need.

meanwhile in Drone Region, Alliance B is moving out 50% of their daily load of minerals out because they have way to much. this support for lets say 75% Jita's mineral amount.

also at the same time, alliances C-Z are doing the same as alliance A.

now the Capital Miner comes on the market. Alliance B will still put out the same amount since they have no need of more minerals.
all the other alliances get more minerals from their miners, not only the high ends, but also the low ends. they use it all for themselfs to get almost every pilot in capitals. However, my miner (since its not overpowered) is still not enough to give enough minerals so the alliances still have to haul some of the minerals.

in the end the prices will go down a little but, but also rise due the isk made in incursions. also rookie miners will still have enough money to buy ships and do what they want, while the alliances have less hauling.

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Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2012-02-23 22:44:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Battle On wrote:
However, my miner (since its not overpowered)


Lets examine this claim.

Quote:
so imagine a capital ship with the following specs:

4 Highslots -> 3 turret hardpoints and 1 for something else like a drone range extender (i will explain why in a second)
5 Midslots -> for shieldtanking and maybe a survey scanner
3 Lowslots -> for cargospace extenders and maybe a damage control if you want
3 Rigslots -> just like any other capital ship

75000 HP Shield (with a recharge of 20000 seconds)
50000 HP Armor
125000 HP Structure

15000 m3 Cargohold
75 m3 Dronehold
50 Mbit/s Bandwidth

Capital Mining Ship Skill Bonus:
5% Increased yield from Capital Mining Laser per level (which i will give the specs of shortly)
5% Increased Shield Resistance per level

Ship Role Bonus:
500% Increased yield from Mining Drones (since these are used way too little)
500% Increased scan range of the Survey Scanner

And now the Capital Mining Laser specs:

Highslot (obvious)
2500m3 Yield
5 minute Cycle Time
enough powergrid usage so that other ships cant fit it (or have the ship get a bonus like -99,9% powergrid usage)
decent CPU usage


Using a modulated strip miner II and a crystal is 16.7% better than a regular strip miner which equates to 630m3 every 180 seconds.

Using the above proposed capital mining laser we have 2500m3 every 300 seconds.

So base yields from the mining lasers we get:

MSM = 630 / 180 = 3.5 m3/s
CAP = 2500 / 300 = 8.3 m3/s

Capital miner base ratio is 2.37 more times as effective

But apply the ship bonuses:

Hulk = 3% mining barge + 3% exhumers, so at level 5 for both would be 6% * 5 = 30% increase.

Hulk using MSM = 3.5 + (0.3 * 3.5) = 4.55

Capital ship at level 5 = 5% * 5 = 25% increase

CAP using cap miner = 8.3 + (0.25 * 8.3) = 10.375

Ship modified = 2.28 more times as effective.

I wont use general skills to boost these values as it will be effectively the same effective change at level 5.
But the drone yields of for the capital of +500% will certainly add to the process.

So in effect the use of this ship will make it over double if not approaching triple the effectiveness of a hulk by yields alone. So in theory making it potentially possible for miners in null sec to generate 2 to 3 more times the mining material than before.


As to the other blinkered views you have from your crystal ball, simply a strawman from your own perspective. Especiailly with the contrary perspective already being demonstrated by someone else. Or the fact that you continue to deny the changes to the drone regions.

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Agustice Arterius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-02-23 23:02:14 UTC
Battle On wrote:

moonmining is really something that should be dont by a structure, not a capital ship. and btw, this isnt starwars. we dont blow up worlds with a giant laser


I wanna do this though Sad

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Battle On
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#48 - 2012-02-24 07:10:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Battle On
Grumpy Owly wrote:

I wont use general skills to boost these values as it will be effectively the same effective change at level 5.
But the drone yields of for the capital of +500% will certainly add to the process.

So in effect the use of this ship will make it over double if not approaching triple the effectiveness of a hulk by yields alone. So in theory making it potentially possible for miners in null sec to generate 2 to 3 more times the mining material than before.
.

indeed it will be 3x efficient but dont forget, its a capita ship. it will take a long time to train for it and it will take a good amount of money to get one. take for example the Carrier. the upgrade from a Battleship to Carrier is also a great upgrade (similar to the upgrade from the Hulk to this Capital Miner). but its allowed and not overpowered since you have a long skill and need alot of money for it.

also what some forget is that there will still be some hauling. nullsec miners mine ABC before everything else. therefor nullsec alliances dont have enough lowend minerals to compare with the high ends. so either they sell some of the highends, or just buy a good amount of lowends and haul them and increase they capital build.

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Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2012-02-24 08:34:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Battle On wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:

I wont use general skills to boost these values as it will be effectively the same effective change at level 5.
But the drone yields of for the capital of +500% will certainly add to the process.

So in effect the use of this ship will make it over double if not approaching triple the effectiveness of a hulk by yields alone. So in theory making it potentially possible for miners in null sec to generate 2 to 3 more times the mining material than before.
.

indeed it will be 3x efficient but dont forget, its a capita ship. it will take a long time to train for it and it will take a good amount of money to get one. take for example the Carrier. the upgrade from a Battleship to Carrier is also a great upgrade (similar to the upgrade from the Hulk to this Capital Miner). but its allowed and not overpowered since you have a long skill and need alot of money for it.

also what some forget is that there will still be some hauling. nullsec miners mine ABC before everything else. therefor nullsec alliances dont have enough lowend minerals to compare with the high ends. so either they sell some of the highends, or just buy a good amount of lowends and haul them and increase they capital build.


And what does that have to do with anything.

Once its effectively paid for itself, its still generating minerals at the extent of 2 to 3 times more than the best ship useable in other zones.

And rather than me get the calculator out to prove a point I'll keep it simple by using a comparison; when you buy a coveter say as your first really effective mining ship you use it in the hope to one day buy the more expensive Hulk to get a better long term return for your investment (both in skills and isk) into it. Its exactly the same comparison between a Hulk and your proposed capital ship. Except for the obvious restrictions of where it can be used.

So no the investment argument is not a credible answer to the potential of the vessel, that's a naive understanding of the problem this could ultimatley generate.

Your ABC comment then changes nothing currently other than improve the potential and speed up mineral aquistion to afford more time in the process of the hauling you think is neccessary. Of course with such a new capital ship they could simply mine the low end minerals they wanted and totally remove the need to haul at their discretion due to the improvement to yields. Even though profits wise it is better to mine ABC sell some excess to buy compressed low end minerals in tech and haul it back to null.

As usual your arguments hold no water.

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Battle On
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2012-02-24 08:46:06 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
^last post


a good hulk miner mines for around 25mill on Arkonor ore at current prices per hour at current prices. however since there isnt enough he also has to mine bistot and crokite etc so this drops to a steady 17,5mill per hour.

a good BS pilot can make around 20mill/hour doing anomaly's in nullsec. its low but its what they should at least make per hour.

if you upgrade the hulk to the capital miner, you get 3x the yield so 52,5mill/hour avarage.

if you put the BS pilot in a carrier and let him do anomaly's, you can EASILY get 60-80mill/hour <- saw it myself back in nullsec

besides that, you can also run Incursion with a faction BS and get 120mill/hour in highsec. <- and this i know for sure since im doing that myself at the moment.

so really, if you look at it its nothing more then getting mining up to a career in eve that profitable and not only be done by botters.

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Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2012-02-24 09:12:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Battle On wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
^last post


a good hulk miner mines for around 25mill on Arkonor ore at current prices per hour at current prices. however since there isnt enough he also has to mine bistot and crokite etc so this drops to a steady 17,5mill per hour.

a good BS pilot can make around 20mill/hour doing anomaly's in nullsec. its low but its what they should at least make per hour.

if you upgrade the hulk to the capital miner, you get 3x the yield so 52,5mill/hour avarage.

if you put the BS pilot in a carrier and let him do anomaly's, you can EASILY get 60-80mill/hour <- saw it myself back in nullsec

besides that, you can also run Incursion with a faction BS and get 120mill/hour in highsec. <- and this i know for sure since im doing that myself at the moment.

so really, if you look at it its nothing more then getting mining up to a career in eve that profitable and not only be done by botters.


No it wont. Mineral abundance will effectively reduce the value of the minerals effectively causing the prices to reduce. I tried to cover this as the original basic premise of why improving yields does nothing of benefit for the miner in terms of profitability.

And it still does nothing to address the regional inequalties as a result of its application.

*knocks head on wall* I don't know what to say?

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Battle On
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#52 - 2012-02-24 09:17:17 UTC
here's the thing, you keep going into what the effects will be. but thats just a yes-no game since we both have our own idea's of what will happen. also no1 will know because it hasnt happened yet.
i already tried to find info about when the hulk came into the game, but found not much.... else i couldve used that to compare the effects.
so simply lets stop this, and focus on how to improve this ship shall we?

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Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2012-02-24 09:22:53 UTC
Battle On wrote:
here's the thing, you keep going into what the effects will be. but thats just a yes-no game since we both have our own idea's of what will happen. also no1 will know because it hasnt happened yet.
i already tried to find info about when the hulk came into the game, but found not much.... else i couldve used that to compare the effects.
so simply lets stop this, and focus on how to improve this ship shall we?


Supply and Demand

The market mechanism

Welcome to basic economics, which suprisingly enough in a player driven model like EvE is in effect.

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Battle On
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#54 - 2012-02-24 09:28:08 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Battle On wrote:
here's the thing, you keep going into what the effects will be. but thats just a yes-no game since we both have our own idea's of what will happen. also no1 will know because it hasnt happened yet.
i already tried to find info about when the hulk came into the game, but found not much.... else i couldve used that to compare the effects.
so simply lets stop this, and focus on how to improve this ship shall we?


Supply and Demand

The market mechanism

Welcome to basic economics, which suprisingly enough in a player driven model like EvE is in effect.


urgh -.- you cant let it rest cant you? we already went over this topic, and even the most wise economist cant predict what will happen simply because there is not enough info of where the minerals in jita are comming from (i believe most comes from drone region, which wont be effected by this miner, and the highsec botter, which also wont be effected) and where the minerals are going to.
if you give me data on those things, then we can really work it out, if not, then we simply CANT. so you can keep whining about the economy without having a clue how it all sticks together or just focus if this ship (THE SHIP not the whole economic system of eve) is not overpowered or has something underpowered maybe.

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Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2012-02-24 11:04:11 UTC
Battle On wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Battle On wrote:
here's the thing, you keep going into what the effects will be. but thats just a yes-no game since we both have our own idea's of what will happen. also no1 will know because it hasnt happened yet.
i already tried to find info about when the hulk came into the game, but found not much.... else i couldve used that to compare the effects.
so simply lets stop this, and focus on how to improve this ship shall we?


Supply and Demand

The market mechanism

Welcome to basic economics, which suprisingly enough in a player driven model like EvE is in effect.


urgh -.- you cant let it rest cant you? we already went over this topic, and even the most wise economist cant predict what will happen simply because there is not enough info of where the minerals in jita are comming from (i believe most comes from drone region, which wont be effected by this miner, and the highsec botter, which also wont be effected) and where the minerals are going to.
if you give me data on those things, then we can really work it out, if not, then we simply CANT. so you can keep whining about the economy without having a clue how it all sticks together or just focus if this ship (THE SHIP not the whole economic system of eve) is not overpowered or has something underpowered maybe.


Believe it or not, Battle On, I've been trying to empower you with information to help you with your development and as an industrialist.

Regardless I see the old addage of "you can lead a horse to water" seems to hold true here.

So I'll leave you to explore your development as you wish, pointless trying to persue balance issues with you on this as you clearly have defined goals for it, so I'll leave you to your "fun" which at this stage seems to be the best approach to take. No hard feelings I hope and all the best in EvE.

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Battle On
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#56 - 2012-02-24 11:18:28 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:

Believe it or not, Battle On, I've been trying to empower you with information to help you with your development and as an industrialist.


yes you have, but the information you give is simply your own opinion/idea of what will happen, not hard facts. therefor you cannot assume it will actually happen

Quote:
Regardless I see the old addage of "you can lead a horse to water" seems to hold true here.


^ uhm no, simply because you didnt gave me info, only your own idea of what will happen. so you clearly dont understand what the song is about

Quote:
So I'll leave you to explore your development as you wish, pointless trying to persue balance issues with you on this as you clearly have defined goals for it, so I'll leave you to your "fun" which at this stage seems to be the best approach to take. No hard feelings I hope and all the best in EvE.


good, because im getting tired of this myself as well. the best in eve to you to, whoever you might be

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Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2012-02-24 18:42:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Capital ship minning?

1 step: Get close to a small asteroid
2 step: Scoop to cargo bay
3 step:????
4 step: profit!

Just kidding... new ships are always a good adition to the game... the only flaw IMO is that this ship should not use stargates and should use sentry or fighter like minning drones... maybe exumer drones, they should mine and then lauch the ore in a can.

But the adition of this ship will not change much the game... if you realy want to fix economy, what nullsec and low-sec need is a way to kill afk cloackers so there would be more possibility for the minners (add the promissed in the last csm meeting: cloak hunter ship)... and also gives the minning barges more tank.... And remove the minerals droped from the drone land and add bounty to them ( promissed in the last csm meeting). This would fix things allot!

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Battle On
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#58 - 2012-02-24 18:58:26 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
Capital ship minning?

1 step: Get close to a small asteroid
2 step: Scoop to cargo bay
3 step:????
4 step: profit!

Just kidding... new ships are always a good adition to the game... the only flaw IMO is that this ship should not use stargates and should use sentry or fighter like minning drones... maybe exumer drones, they should mine and then lauch the ore in a can.

But the adition of this ship will not change much the game... if you realy want to fix economy, what nullsec and low-sec need is a way to kill afk cloackers so there would be more possibility for the minners (add the promissed in the last csm meeting: cloak hunter ship)... and also gives the minning barges more tank.... And remove the minerals droped from the drone land and add bounty to them ( promissed in the last csm meeting). This would fix things allot!


well if there are exhumer drones they wouldmine more. that + the 500% bonus would be just insane.
that stargate is a good point. it should have the jump ability ofcourse. and sentry/fighter will be a bit overpowered since its still a miner, it allow to be able to defend against nullsec rats, but not against gankers.

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Velicitia
XS Tech
#59 - 2012-02-24 19:15:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Battle On wrote:


Quote:
Regardless I see the old addage of "you can lead a horse to water" seems to hold true here.


^ uhm no, simply because you didnt gave me info, only your own idea of what will happen. so you clearly dont understand what the song is about



But he is giving you the info. You keep trying to refute it with "but you can't tell the future".

Barges were released in '04 with POS/SOV/Alliances/etc (Exodus).
Exhumers were released in '05 (RMR).

Though it wasn't til '06 (when T2 lottery ended and invention was released) that they became affordable for the masses.



And yeah, you can't know the future 100 percent ... but at the same time, we can postulate what will happen to the mineral market pretty effectively if it things took 1/3 the time to obtain.


edit --> CCP -- fix your damn forums to accept the percent sign

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Battle On
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#60 - 2012-02-24 19:46:43 UTC
Velicitia wrote:


But he is giving you the info. You keep trying to refute it with "but you can't tell the future".

Barges were released in '04 with POS/SOV/Alliances/etc (Exodus).
Exhumers were released in '05 (RMR).

Though it wasn't til '06 (when T2 lottery ended and invention was released) that they became affordable for the masses.



And yeah, you can't know the future 100 percent ... but at the same time, we can postulate what will happen to the mineral market pretty effectively if it things took 1/3 the time to obtain.


edit --> CCP -- fix your damn forums to accept the percent sign


true and i use that info as well and come up with my own idea what will happen based on facts know.
but more then that isnt possible atm without hard facts where all minerals are comming from.

i would love to do all the mats on how the market will react. i would really love to, but atm no1 know how much minerals are hauled from drone region atm. or how many will be hauled to Branch.

its just a simple fact that its useless to discuss this, thats why i say, focus on the ship, not on the impact to the economy.

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