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WH PvP duo input needed
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King of England
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-02-22 12:09:48 UTC
Hello guys & girls!

A friend of mine is going to start playing Eve soon-ish and we're looking at having a go at wormhole PvP.

His character's going to be Amarr only, while mine is Caldari/Amarr.

Since we were thinking about using recons the only options would be:
A) Pilgrim/Falcon or
B) Pilgrim/Pilgrim combo.

Would like to hear your input and possible suggestions/fittings to go with it.

Thanks in advance!
Alara IonStorm
#2 - 2012-02-22 12:46:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Since the Cloaky Recons tend to have low DPS I would say start him off on the Purifier as a DPS Hammer. It should help you burst down your targets rather quick.

They also have no target delay so you can tackle very quick. Low SP / Cost comparatively is another good factor when compared to the more intensive Recons.
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#3 - 2012-02-22 19:50:22 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Since the Cloaky Recons tend to have low DPS I would say start him off on the Purifier as a DPS Hammer. It should help you burst down your targets rather quick.

They also have no target delay so you can tackle very quick. Low SP / Cost comparatively is another good factor when compared to the more intensive Recons.


A great idea here, with the only problem being sleepers. They will change targets to you (sometimes) if you jump someone in a site. Alternatively, if you plan on killing people somewhere else in the WH, then you can fly either recon you listed above with your buddy in the bomber no problem. Pilgrim to neut out and TD the target to stop him from hurting your friend and getting away, or falcon so you both can sit further back and jam/torp away. I'd probably end up with the Pilgrim, just because having two people in point range (and therefore hopefully a scram and a long point between you) and a TD will make it very hard for things to hit you, assuming they use cap based weaponry, plus your bonused drones do more DPS than a falcon.

However, all I know about WH ships is that there tend to be lots of passive tanked shield ships and other setups with capacitor out the ass to cover sleeper neuts. Passive drakes would probably be the hardest to deal with, since active tanks DIAF to neuts which wouldn't do much to the drake, and they might be carrying FoF missiles to negate your jamming.
Skelee VI
Swamp Panthers
Bog Brotherhood
#4 - 2012-02-22 19:58:36 UTC
I would definately go with falcon as one ship, can't get hurt if target is jammed! The second either a dps purifier or pilgrim. a legion with covert ops may be okay too but pricey! Just have to pick your targets and nail them when almost done killing sleepers. Now the pilgrim have to be in drone range to be good. Purifier with t2 sieges and squeeze 2 bcu's be some nasty dps.
Skelee VI
Swamp Panthers
Bog Brotherhood
#5 - 2012-02-22 20:06:18 UTC
[Purifier, WH killa]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II

Experimental 1MN Afterburner I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I

Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
[empty high slot]

Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I

needs 1% cpu implant, 607 dps, 4717 volley! 50km range or so.
Hathrul
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-02-22 20:20:18 UTC
ship 1: covert neuting legion with tackle
ship 2: damage abso
King of England
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-02-23 05:40:03 UTC
They will see the abso coming/being in system using D-Scan :(
T0RT0ISE
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-02-23 11:55:16 UTC
Arazu Rapier combo is good. Obviously this doesn't help you if you insist on flying Caldari / Amarr.

You would do better to aim for cloaky TIII's if you insist on both cloaky and those two races.
King of England
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-02-24 06:54:05 UTC
So, as a starting point(T3 is little big to begin with) Pilgrim/Pilgrim , Falcon/Pilgrim won't work?
shal ri
Short Bus Window Licker
#10 - 2012-02-24 20:00:26 UTC
t3 is the best way to go for cloak wh work as they can tank and deal ok dmg with speed. skill wise it will take just as long to get recon ships as it uses almost the same skills in training. the only issue with t3s ships is the price tag.
So Sensational
Ventures
#11 - 2012-02-25 00:02:26 UTC
King of England wrote:
So, as a starting point(T3 is little big to begin with) Pilgrim/Pilgrim , Falcon/Pilgrim won't work?

It all depends on your targets. Pilgrim/Falcon will completely destroy many setups with the right strategy.
King of England
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-02-25 04:50:17 UTC
So Sensational wrote:
King of England wrote:
So, as a starting point(T3 is little big to begin with) Pilgrim/Pilgrim , Falcon/Pilgrim won't work?

It all depends on your targets. Pilgrim/Falcon will completely destroy many setups with the right strategy.

A few examples?:)
T0RT0ISE
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-02-25 06:22:20 UTC
Well any that are vulnerable to ECM (solo this is anyhing) and the pilgrim ruins the day for active tanks (that dont have injectors). So active tanked ... anything. the problem is the slow DPS means they can bring in backup, and wormhole wise you are very reliant on drones to do your dps and drones are succeptible to the sleepers switching to them.
So Sensational
Ventures
#14 - 2012-02-25 11:04:32 UTC
King of England wrote:
So Sensational wrote:
King of England wrote:
So, as a starting point(T3 is little big to begin with) Pilgrim/Pilgrim , Falcon/Pilgrim won't work?

It all depends on your targets. Pilgrim/Falcon will completely destroy many setups with the right strategy.

A few examples?:)

Any solo ship. Duos are quite easily countered with the amount of ECM and neuts you can field. Your problems will, as stated before, be when they bring back-up because you take so long to kill them. But then again you have cloaks so you should know what the enemy has available and engage accordingly.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#15 - 2012-02-25 23:57:55 UTC
I'd be very cautious when using recons for WH pvp. If you gank someone in a c3-c4 sleeper site, the sleepers do around 800dps. Sleepers rotate targets, so when you uncloak, you can immediatley expect roughly half of that dps to come your way. 400 incoming dps can ruin any recons day, and that doesn't include the dps from your target either.

Also, by that same logic, you are reducing the dps your target is tanking from 800 to 400 as sleepers are now splitting dps between you and your target. This isn't a huge problem since your pilgrim will turn off your target's tank, but it is something to keep in mind.

For these reasons, a cloaky legion is generally preferred as a WH neut boat over the pilgrim/curse. Recons can do the job, it has been done, but it can get messy if you aren't careful. Of course the above points are moot if you have a larger gang with logi support.
T0RT0ISE
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-02-26 03:37:20 UTC
the beauty of covert cloaks is you can wait until the sleepers are dead/near dead before engaging.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#17 - 2012-02-27 05:48:15 UTC
T0RT0ISE wrote:
the beauty of covert cloaks is you can wait until the sleepers are dead/near dead before engaging.

And using the wrecks as nice lil warp to targets is superb if you can do it right.

Falcon/pilgrim then move up to falcon/legion.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#18 - 2012-02-27 12:44:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
I can't believe no one has said this, but planning to *start* PVP in recons is a recipe for frustration and disaster.

Consider:
- Your friend is at least 4 or 5 months from being a decent recon pilot. Cloaky recons *need* level 5 in it.
- Your hull will be ~180mil and *uninsured*- if that dies, how quickly will your friend be back in a ship fighting? If the answer isn't "straight away" then he's flying something he can't afford to lose.
- Using a falcon is going to get boring fast. "oh hey, we ganked him and he couldn't shoot" doesn't get any more interesting as time goes by.
- Your definition of PVP here is "jump someone ratting." Viable in WHs, true, but if something else finds you you're going to find 25k EHP recons an expencive loss.

The only thing you need in your scenario is a cloaky tackle. The other ship(s) would work better if it were non-cloaky. My ex-corp had about a 99% success rate (by which I mean, they didn't get away) by hero tackling ships in COVOPS. It works just fine. Make the other ship a BC (or BS if WH mass allows). Insurable, and since applying enough DPS to break a PVE tanked drake / tengu is the issue, a more viable choice.

A scrubfit phoon with neuts and torps will put a Drake down about as quick as anything else.

If your non-cloaky ship(s) are on Dscan before you get the tackle, you're doing it wrong. That's the hero in hero tackle.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Torothin
Crimson Dawn Enterprises
#19 - 2012-02-27 19:10:44 UTC
TBH the Falcon/Pilgrim combo can engage and kill almost any ship you come across as long as he doesn't have friends. it's a solid choice.
Malcorath Sacerdos
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-02-27 20:26:33 UTC
altho most ppl in wh´s have friends.
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