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Hulk Buff or new 0.0 Miner
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Death Killer21
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#1 - 2012-02-21 10:59:50 UTC
Hello

What do you guys think about getting the hulk buffed for more cpu / powergrid. this should be done so that the 0.0 miners can tank there ship without having to buy hundreds of millions worth of ship.

Either that or they should make a t3 mining barge, one that allows you to tank and mine more than the hulk. OBV this would cost more because of the bigger tank and the bigger mining ammount. This would help players that mine in 0.0 so much. You should also buff the retriever to have extra pg and cpu and have one more mid slot so that they can fit more tank and arnt as paper thin tank.

What do you guys think

THanks

Death killer21

Caldari and amarr Mission service.  Contact me for more info
Fluffi Flaffi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-02-21 11:26:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Fluffi Flaffi
Again and again the same ideas to buff mining. And again this is not necessary!

1. Mining in 0.0 should gain enough ISK for you, so that you can buy such expensive modules!

2. A T3 mining ship is not necessary as well, doesn't matter what it costs. We just received a buff for Mining Ganglink modules.

3. And Retrievers are as well good enough the way they are! They are "throw away ships" or "starter ships". They don't need a bigger tank or more CPU to be able to fit 2x MLU2. For that purpose you can use a Covetor if you don't want to risk the ISK of your Hulk!

At the moment and even at the low prices one year ago you can earn riskless and easy afk-money in HiSec. A Hulk needs to be ganked by one alpha in HiSec with standard fit and needs support in lowsec / 0.0 to be able to work there.

I absolutely don't see any point in buffing this part of EVE any further and I am 100% a miner!
Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
#3 - 2012-02-21 12:00:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Emma Royd
It's quite simple - If you can't tank your hulk in 0.0 then you shouldn't be solo mining.

0.0 isn't for the solo player, it's for corps & alliances, so ask one of the ratters to come sit in the belt with you and pay him some isk for killing the rats, or even if they can get the aggro and perma-tank them then, that's the better solution since you won't get a re-spawn targetting miners.
Sure you can ninja mine in a quiet backwater 0.0 system, but then have to get the stuff out, so that's rorqual etc.

Mining sucks for so many reasons, bots, reprocessing loot etc, it doesn't need to be bigger it needs to be better, but that's not in any pipeline as far as we know.
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
#4 - 2012-02-21 13:51:22 UTC
Mining isn't broken. We don't need any additional buffs to improve yield. If you want to mine in nul or low sec use a Covetor to decrease the losses as you will lose your mining vessel eventually. Get organised and mine with others.
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#5 - 2012-02-21 13:57:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Revolution Rising
Mining is dead, look for life elsewhere.

Incursions and ratting earn way more.

1 officer spawn can net billions.
incursions can earl you half a bil a day easy.

Mining you might get half as much as ratting without officer spawns, incursions even more.

You are better off also training in combat skills as these allow you to PVP (defend yourself and your corp) as well as do the afore mentioned activities. Training up those mining skills gets you no benefits in any other activity.

Mining is dead. Give it up.

Even if as the CSM and CCP's bullshit proposals happen, it will maybe get another 10-20% on top of current mineral prices. You'll still earn less than anyone doing incursions by a huge amount, you'll still get no easter-egg officer spawns.

.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#6 - 2012-02-21 14:07:11 UTC
Fluffi Flaffi wrote:
Again and again the same ideas to buff mining. And again this is not necessary!

1. Mining in 0.0 should gain enough ISK for you, so that you can buy such expensive modules!

2. A T3 mining ship is not necessary as well, doesn't matter what it costs. We just received a buff for Mining Ganglink modules.

3. And Retrievers are as well good enough the way they are! They are "throw away ships" or "starter ships". They don't need a bigger tank or more CPU to be able to fit 2x MLU2. For that purpose you can use a Covetor if you don't want to risk the ISK of your Hulk!

At the moment and even at the low prices one year ago you can earn riskless and easy afk-money in HiSec. A Hulk needs to be ganked by one alpha in HiSec with standard fit and needs support in lowsec / 0.0 to be able to work there.

I absolutely don't see any point in buffing this part of EVE any further and I am 100% a miner!


this, 100%.

Though, I will also add that you have to make choices --> max mining yield, or some tank. This is EXACTLY the same decision process that everyone else makes with combat vessels (though it's gank vs tank).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#7 - 2012-02-21 14:08:58 UTC
No. Adding a new mining ship nor buffing the current ones will not help the mining profession in any way except dilute the market with more minerals due to a beefier mining ship.

The best solution is to improve the gameplay of the mining profession in a way that makes it less boring and more enjoyable but puts a crimp on the bot-user's operations.

One way of fixing the mining profession (without having to beef up miners or add a new one) was brought up by Mor Sanctitatis and I think this is an excellent idea that should be brought to CCP's attention. Particularly the bit about having "intuition" being a factor in picking out the right rocks (bots don't have intuition).

Adapt or Die
Director Producer
LRC Inc.
#8 - 2012-02-21 14:12:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Director Producer
Imho, this thread is not about Mining VS Incursion/Mission or Mining ISK per Hour.

From my point of view : Hulk don't need any buff.
It is just an indy ship, and an industrial ship don't have the vocation to tank like BS or whatever.

Every miners who really loves mining have got 2 accounts minimum.
If you want to mine in 0.0, just put an Orca as Main-Tank in the belt.
If you don't have Orca, put a Drake, it's enough.

The better choice If you want to mine in 0.0 with only one account is to find a nullsec mining corp.


Ps : By the way, show me how you solo mine in truesec belt with a retriever... really.
Mycool Jahksn
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-02-21 14:17:31 UTC
The best way to improve mining is to make drones drop modules instead of pure minerals.

Afaik 70% of all high end minerals come from the drone regions.

My interests include but are not limited to throwing rocks at bee hives.

There are more stars in the universe than all of the grains of sand on earth.
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#10 - 2012-02-21 14:57:46 UTC
Mycool Jahksn wrote:
The best way to improve mining is to make drones drop modules instead of pure minerals.

Afaik 70% of all high end minerals come from the drone regions.


Modules can still be reprocessed for minerals. Although I often wonder how much in minerals a single drone drop contributes compared to a module.

Adapt or Die
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#11 - 2012-02-21 15:54:31 UTC
Fluffi Flaffi wrote:

3. And Retrievers are as well good enough the way they are! They are "throw away ships" or "starter ships". They don't need a bigger tank or more CPU to be able to fit 2x MLU2. For that purpose you can use a Covetor if you don't want to risk the ISK of your Hulk!


Except that it's supposed to be the Procurer that is the "starter ship" of the barge class, but it's outclassed by the mining cruisers (which are far more capable ships in terms of putting out decent yield while also having enough PG/CPU to fit a nice sized buffer tank).

Barges and exhumers need a balancing pass, and have needed one for years.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#12 - 2012-02-21 16:04:19 UTC
Henry Haphorn wrote:
Mycool Jahksn wrote:
The best way to improve mining is to make drones drop modules instead of pure minerals.

Afaik 70% of all high end minerals come from the drone regions.


Modules can still be reprocessed for minerals. Although I often wonder how much in minerals a single drone drop contributes compared to a module.


Seeing as the drone regions are all nullsec, a single drone over there will (most likely) drop a fair amount of minerals. You also have to keep in mind that it's not necessarily one drone ... but an entire sanctum (or whatever) worth of drones -- i.e. think L4 missioning and how many rats you have to kill in one. That should be able to give you a low estimate of the numbers of drones that people are killing...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#13 - 2012-02-21 16:39:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Hulk is fine for CPU and grid. I'd support a buff to it's shield (it is an over 200m tinfoil hull) and an enlargement of its drone bay.

The Mackinaw needs more CPU and grid.

One shouldn't be able to gank Exhumers in a Catalyst.

All the mining barges could also do with a boost to durability. Nothing insane though. The Retriever needs another mid slot or two.

I'd also support a new T3 mining ship that was bonused for ore and gas, and was more durable, built-in +2 w-stab like a Skiff, but mined less than a Hulk.
Weiland Taur
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#14 - 2012-02-22 00:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Weiland Taur
Revolution Rising wrote:
Mining is dead, look for life elsewhere.

Incursions and ratting earn way more.

1 officer spawn can net billions.
incursions can earl you half a bil a day easy.

Mining you might get half as much as ratting without officer spawns, incursions even more.

You are better off also training in combat skills as these allow you to PVP (defend yourself and your corp) as well as do the afore mentioned activities. Training up those mining skills gets you no benefits in any other activity.

Mining is dead. Give it up.

Even if as the CSM and CCP's bullshit proposals happen, it will maybe get another 10-20% on top of current mineral prices. You'll still earn less than anyone doing incursions by a huge amount, you'll still get no easter-egg officer spawns.


Mining is obviously far from dead or else the subject would be quieter. I wish people including the above quoted would stop assuming that everyone's eve experience is dictated by the amount of ISK they earn per day.

Now to get off my soapbox.

The mining ships are fine as they are. A well tanked Hulk with decent drone skills will tank and harvest nullsec rats easily. With a casual eye on local and mining in grav sites pilots have more than enough time to get to the safety of POS's when reds appear. It will also survive poorly organized ganks in highsec though you do lose some m3 in cargo as another poster well described, the same gank vs. tank that every other player must wrestle with when fitting their ships.

Let's get pressure on CCP to get rid of the secondary ore sources, i.e. Drone Drops and we will see an increase in prices and in BOTS which is good as pvp pilots seem to enjoy hunting them. Win Win for all.
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#15 - 2012-02-22 09:18:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Revolution Rising
Holy god, I really do get sick of this "rainbows and puppy dogs" point of view when it comes to mining and we should all be sitting around singing kumbaya while mining because that's what everyone does right ?

Of course not.

If a part of the game is so obviously out of balance with other incomes in the games then there will be a fair percentage of people that would be mining for in-game income who then won't.

While many of the kumbaya singing miners in high-sec are in it for the wonderous corp drama, or setting up corp contracts each day to buy from their miners on the cheap, or just basically for the "friendly atmosphere" of their corps.

For many of us there has to be a keen business eye put to the industry before we invest billions of isk on pos's, capitals, implants and dead space fitted exhumers (not to mention our time) - and whether those same empire dwelling rainbow and puppydog "mining is ok" players can understand it or not - THAT is where many of us in 0.0 look for income and those are some of the outlays we have to go through each month EVEN IF we can find an alliance to "graciously allow us" to "mine in THEIR space".

I would seriously doubt anyone who has plex'd for any (more than a small) amount of isk in recent times would take this fairy tale approach to investing in mining (because it's just a game amirite ?).

Because if it is just a game, why not go invent t2 cruiser hulls and don't worry about the fact that goons has a stranglehold on the technetium or that t2 bpo holders will always be able to control the market.

Do it for the joy of it.

But of course, people that build t2 cruiser hulls are more likely to be the same people to open up a spreadsheet, do the sums and realise that t2 cruiser hulls just... aren't worth it to make. Instead they will make t2 modules and other things that it makes sense to create in-game because the money is worth it.

And by the same token, those same miners are slightly less likely to be the same people that will open a spreadsheet. After all, anyone can get into a t1 cruiser and mine and make e-friends on the internet playing their favourite game. To those people it surprises me not in the least that "mining is fine" to them.

Every time one of these threads start up, they go on about how mining is "ok". Meanwhile in other parts of eve, CCP is stopping things like seeding shuttles on the market because "it might be creating an illusory tritanium price". There are also many other micro-manged prices and industries that CCP often manipulates to make the game better.

But no, don't do that for mining please, because the empire dwelling pacifist bottom feeeders are really happy in empire singing around the campfire and would be doing it anyhow even if it earned nothing.

After all, isn't that what everyone is doing in eve? Amirite?

.
Death Killer21
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#16 - 2012-02-22 09:23:18 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Hulk is fine for CPU and grid. I'd support a buff to it's shield (it is an over 200m tinfoil hull) and an enlargement of its drone bay.

The Mackinaw needs more CPU and grid.

One shouldn't be able to gank Exhumers in a Catalyst.

All the mining barges could also do with a boost to durability. Nothing insane though. The Retriever needs another mid slot or two.

I'd also support a new T3 mining ship that was bonused for ore and gas, and was more durable, built-in +2 w-stab like a Skiff, but mined less than a Hulk.


Yep good idea. That is what i think needed doing. You really need tyo balance out the exumers so that you cant gank them solo with just a destroyer.

Scrapyard Bob wrote:


Fluffi Flaffi wrote:

3. And Retrievers are as well good enough the way they are! They are "throw away ships" or "starter ships". They don't need a bigger tank or more CPU to be able to fit 2x MLU2. For that purpose you can use a Covetor if you don't want to risk the ISK of your Hulk!

Except that it's supposed to be the Procurer that is the "starter ship" of the barge class, but it's outclassed by the mining cruisers (which are far more capable ships in terms of putting out decent yield while also having enough PG/CPU to fit a nice sized buffer tank).

Barges and exhumers need a balancing pass, and have needed one for years.



I also agree with you. Definatkly just need a balancing pass. the retri needs more mid slots and so does the covertor. 1 mid slot is useles, laos mroe pg and cpu needed so u get more mining yield.

Death killer21

Caldari and amarr Mission service.  Contact me for more info
Death Killer21
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#17 - 2012-02-22 09:26:57 UTC
Revolution Rising wrote:
Mining is dead, look for life elsewhere.

Incursions and ratting earn way more.

1 officer spawn can net billions.
incursions can earl you half a bil a day easy.

Mining you might get half as much as ratting without officer spawns, incursions even more.

You are better off also training in combat skills as these allow you to PVP (defend yourself and your corp) as well as do the afore mentioned activities. Training up those mining skills gets you no benefits in any other activity.

Mining is dead. Give it up.

Even if as the CSM and CCP's bullshit proposals happen, it will maybe get another 10-20% on top of current mineral prices. You'll still earn less than anyone doing incursions by a huge amount, you'll still get no easter-egg officer spawns.


Not really. I am all around pilot in a sov holding alliabnce. We have syhstems fully upgraded and we dont make that much from officer spawns. Plus officer spawns are rare as mad. U have to be extremly lucky ot get them, Mining isnt dead because if it was wwere the hell u gettin ure ships from?? WQho the hell is building ure mods thqat you use to kill reds with. US. Us miners that sit in high sec and get ganked by people. Seriosuly take a look around. thers plenty of miners, some just dont mine while hulkafgeddon is on!

Death killer21

Caldari and amarr Mission service.  Contact me for more info
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#18 - 2012-02-22 09:40:48 UTC
Death Killer21 wrote:
Revolution Rising wrote:
Mining is dead, look for life elsewhere.

Incursions and ratting earn way more.

1 officer spawn can net billions.
incursions can earl you half a bil a day easy.

Mining you might get half as much as ratting without officer spawns, incursions even more.

You are better off also training in combat skills as these allow you to PVP (defend yourself and your corp) as well as do the afore mentioned activities. Training up those mining skills gets you no benefits in any other activity.

Mining is dead. Give it up.

Even if as the CSM and CCP's bullshit proposals happen, it will maybe get another 10-20% on top of current mineral prices. You'll still earn less than anyone doing incursions by a huge amount, you'll still get no easter-egg officer spawns.


Not really. I am all around pilot in a sov holding alliabnce. We have syhstems fully upgraded and we dont make that much from officer spawns. Plus officer spawns are rare as mad. U have to be extremly lucky ot get them, Mining isnt dead because if it was wwere the hell u gettin ure ships from?? WQho the hell is building ure mods thqat you use to kill reds with. US. Us miners that sit in high sec and get ganked by people. Seriosuly take a look around. thers plenty of miners, some just dont mine while hulkafgeddon is on!


Dude you're living in providence. NRDS is bound to attract every idiot with a mining barge. I'd suggest you probably have more than the average number of miners in providence because of this.

.
Death Killer21
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#19 - 2012-02-22 09:42:33 UTC
Revolution Rising wrote:
Death Killer21 wrote:
Revolution Rising wrote:
Mining is dead, look for life elsewhere.

Incursions and ratting earn way more.

1 officer spawn can net billions.
incursions can earl you half a bil a day easy.

Mining you might get half as much as ratting without officer spawns, incursions even more.

You are better off also training in combat skills as these allow you to PVP (defend yourself and your corp) as well as do the afore mentioned activities. Training up those mining skills gets you no benefits in any other activity.

Mining is dead. Give it up.

Even if as the CSM and CCP's bullshit proposals happen, it will maybe get another 10-20% on top of current mineral prices. You'll still earn less than anyone doing incursions by a huge amount, you'll still get no easter-egg officer spawns.


Not really. I am all around pilot in a sov holding alliabnce. We have syhstems fully upgraded and we dont make that much from officer spawns. Plus officer spawns are rare as mad. U have to be extremly lucky ot get them, Mining isnt dead because if it was wwere the hell u gettin ure ships from?? WQho the hell is building ure mods thqat you use to kill reds with. US. Us miners that sit in high sec and get ganked by people. Seriosuly take a look around. thers plenty of miners, some just dont mine while hulkafgeddon is on!


Dude you're living in providence. NRDS is bound to attract every idiot with a mining barge. I'd suggest you probably have more than the average number of miners in providence because of this.


Yes we do have miners. No they arent idiots. Mining isnt a problem. I dont see the problem with mining

Death killer21

Caldari and amarr Mission service.  Contact me for more info
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#20 - 2012-02-22 09:46:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Revolution Rising
So you don't think that NRDS would attract more miners than NBSI ?

Because if you do, then your previous post makes you an idiot.
And of course if you don't then you're just as idiotic anyhow.

I'm interested to see which way you'll jump on this.

Actually you're probably still trying to work out why a buff to the hulk won't work.

Let me show you a neat trick.

Hulk buff = more mineral yield.
More Mineral yield = more minerals on market.
More mineral supply = devaluation of the minerals = mineral prices go down.
Mineral prices go down = ship prices go down.
Ship prices go down = your income goes down.

It is the same reason nations don't just "Print money" when they are in debt.

How are you better off with a hulk buff rather than a completely diffferent change in the way mining works?
Or was this thread just a waste of everyone's time?

You an idiot yet ?

And no I didn't start on this trying to be an *******, but you really just gotta bang my cage with a stick dont you?

Think before you post.

Many of us are trying to get mining fixed. The reasons are valid and basically accepted by the CSM and CCP.

You guys getting on shouting for all to see that "mining is fine" is not only NOT IN YOUR SELF INTEREST, but WRONG. Most of us have been playing more than a year to form this opinion.

Please think first, post after.

.
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