These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Jita Park Speakers Corner

Forum Index

EVE Forums » Council of Stellar Management » Jita Park Speakers Corner » One EVE, One Vote, One Chairman: Why You Should Vote Fo...

Topic is locked indefinitely.

First pagePrevious page56789Next pageLast page

One EVE, One Vote, One Chairman: Why You Should Vote For The Mittani For CSM First post
Author

Previous Topic Next Topic

Glarealot

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 33

#121 - 2012-02-21 05:46:43 UTC

Asuka Solo wrote:

To every player out there concerned with politics and preserving Eve... the slugfest witnessed over the last few pages is exactly what happens when you are dumb enough to vote goons into power. This is what every CSM meeting will be like.

Say no to goon CSM candidates. Show them the door, the gutter and then Kitty Island adventure.

Preferably in that order.

Feel free to say no all you want. Grab as many people as you can and say no. But at the end of the day, there are more than enough goons and goon alt accounts to get Mittens into CSM. Just kick back, relax, and enjoy the show.

Reilly Duvolle

Hydra Squadron

Likes received: 490

#122 - 2012-02-21 06:13:51 UTC | Edited by: Reilly Duvolle

Andski wrote:

let me try to reduce that to a syllable count suitable for your reading level:

the "team tech" CSMs support a tech nerf

I am fully aware of what you are saying. Bringing Elise and Seleene in to prove that you have the games best interest at heart when you act like you do. I just dont think it is very relevant. But let me elaborate:

You know, nerfing tech is a no brainer for all those that dont have it.
Nerfing tech is also a no-brainer for people that have the games best interest at heart. Hell, even I want to nerf tech, because as it is, tech unbalances nullsec gameplay, and has been doing so for at least 2 years.
Nobody disagrees.

But if we look at a bit of history, the Goons started to want to nerf tech about the same time as it became evident to all thet the old NC was about to implode, late last spring. Before this point, Tech was fine. Nothing wrong with it.

But suddenly, your mortal enemies had more tech than you did. And a supercap superiority. Not good. You military and financial teams undoubtedly came to the conclusion that this strategic imbalance could only become worse with time, unless you could take substantial amounts of tech back. Which was unlikely given the supercap imbalance.

So - two things started rolling, metagamewise. "Death to all supercaps/winter is coming" and ofc nerfing tech became important CSM subjects. The supercap nerf came through first and The Mittani could boast about healing the games "sucking chestwound" as he put it.

Now its techs turn. That you got Seleene in on it dont suprise me one bit. With his background, I suspect he is more loyal to the game than he is to PL. As for Elise, my impression of him has always been a guy that wants good fights first. Not very suprised about him supporting this either. Frankly I would be much more suprised if you had managed to get a Raiden rep to back you - but they dont have any on this CSM so its a moot point.

And as I said, tech needs to be nerfed. This is not my issue with you.

But tech has needed a nerf for 2 years. You suddenly embraced it only 9 months ago, when the strategic situation changed. That it will finally get implemented is good for the game. That it happens now, is also very good for the Goons.

My main issue with all this is that you take credit for it, using it for propaganda purposes to show how the Goons "care for the game", while in reality, you only care for yourself.

Ai Shun

Likes received: 1,200

#123 - 2012-02-21 06:21:57 UTC

Reilly Duvolle wrote:

Ai Shun wrote:

Now, you have made a rather serious allegation that some CSM candidates are using what seems like a logical solution to a current imbalance for their own benefit. This to me is very, very serious.

So, I am asking you again - what proof do you have of this? Can you please post your evidence.

Or are you trying to discredit members of the CSM for your own gain?

I provided you with numbers. Goons will do anything to discredit them, no surprise there. Dotlan has certainly been used, but verivied by other sources.

Look at it in any way you like: Team Tech currently holds more moons that CFC, and has done so for at least 9 months.

Now you can belive this or not. You can make your own investigations - or not. People will belive what they want to belive anyways.

I am done.

You have provided numbers of moon ownership. That says nothing to your allegations as to the motivations of the Goons or any other group in EVE Online. It is simply a collection of numbers.

I want proof of the motivation. E.g.

Mittani said (link) here that he is seeking position on the CSM to ensure that the other alliances suffer; that is why he wants to push for these changes (link here)

Seriously. Do you really think a count of the number of moons is indicative of anything relating to corruption within the CSM?

Reilly Duvolle

Hydra Squadron

Likes received: 490

#124 - 2012-02-21 06:26:13 UTC | Edited by: Reilly Duvolle

Ai Shun wrote:

Seriously. Do you really think a count of the number of moons is indicative of anything relating to corruption within the CSM?

I think that when your in-game enemy holds more tech than you, and this makes the strategic imbalance between them worsen every month, questioning the real motivation behind the tech nerf is in order, yes.

I dont know this corruption you speak of. I just suspect that the Goons metagames the CSM, not that they get paid for it.

Grumpy Owly

Imperial Shipment

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 699

#125 - 2012-02-21 06:30:00 UTC | Edited by: Grumpy Owly

Ai Shun wrote:

Reilly Duvolle wrote:

Ai Shun wrote:

Quotes from The Mittani:

"The luxury of my popularity is that I don't have to bother lying to my voters about who and what I am. You get exactly what you voted for: a manipulative sadist who makes no apologies for who or what he is. "

...

"I ran for CSM on a platform of explicitly being a manipulative bastard, because it takes someone like me to actually bring CCP around to reason."

...

"Every CSM represents their own constituents. Some have delusions about 'representing everyone'. I do not."

...

"I'd kind of like to see Learning Implants vanish ........ However, this isn't really a major priority for me. I might bring it over beer in Islenskibarinn, but it's not going to be a summit topic and something I expend vast amounts of political capital on, like I have on supercaps.

and then from recent CSM Minutes:

One CSM stated a point in favor of removing learning implants, as that would be a nerf to highsec income, and he is always in favor of those where possible. Other members of the CSM were quick to object to that suggestion. Another CSM objected to "his peeps being thrown under the bus".

Read the CSM minutes, see how they are focussed. Check discussions which are in conflict to his own interests and see how abhorrently dissmisive he is of them.

See how he consistantly supports his arguments from a position of power that others are impotent as a result.

These are in no way hidden views, and anyone who suggests the Mittani is impartial is either a goon, in denial and/or completley ignorant of EvE politics.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling

Jita Alt666

Likes received: 1,441

#126 - 2012-02-21 06:30:09 UTC

Reilly Duvolle wrote:

Some tinfoil hat rubbish

Everyone who lives in 0.0 knows tech needs to be nerfed. A 0.0 based candidate publicly advocates for the tech nerf and somehow that makes him a bad man?

Please keep posting though - you have taken a boring CSM thread and turned it into the conspiracy of 2012; CSM candidates are using the CSM as a platform to improve Eve Online and at the same time further their in game causes.

Ai Shun

Likes received: 1,200

#127 - 2012-02-21 06:38:34 UTC

Grumpy Owly wrote:

"The luxury of my popularity is that I don't have to bother lying to my voters about who and what I am. You get exactly what you voted for: a manipulative sadist who makes no apologies for who or what he is. "

So?

Grumpy Owly wrote:

"I ran for CSM on a platform of explicitly being a manipulative bastard, because it takes someone like me to actually bring CCP around to reason."

Good, if he can bring CCP around to reason. The work this CSM has done has been very good!

Grumpy Owly wrote:

"Every CSM represents their own constituents. Some have delusions about 'representing everyone'. I do not."

Again, primarily representing those players in null-sec alliances. Good. There are other candidates on the CSM who can focus primarily on other aspects. However, from what I have seen on the current CSM they are spread across the game as a whole and his input has been over the game as a whole.

Grumpy Owly wrote:

"I'd kind of like to see Learning Implants vanish ........ However, this isn't really a major priority for me. I might bring it over beer in Islenskibarinn, but it's not going to be a summit topic and something I expend vast amounts of political capital on, like I have on supercaps.

So?

CSM working as intended. Different people representing different groups, taking player concerns to CCP and actively trying to drive CCP. At least Mittani is energy; far more so than the majority of carebear saps that only come out of the woodwork when a CSM election is coming up and they try to discredit the people taking an active hand in the game / whine about how they are not represented.

And yeah, I have read the CSM minutes. I've been consistently arguing that they cover a large swathe of the game. (If you look at them objectively without a "I hate Goons" viewpoint)

And, in-case it is of relevance. I am not a Goon. I'm in a solo corp; residing on the boundary of low-sec and I primarily focus on hauling, industry and on an alt now a bit more of combat.

But I get annoyed when people make allegations without proof, slander people and then dance amongst the flowers as if they don't smell like ****.

Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 11,585
Andski Science and Trade Institute Caldari State Likes received: 11,585	#128 - 2012-02-21 06:40:18 UTC you're arguing with a forum alt with a signature that says "Griefers are lazy cowards with the current climate of broken player policing systems." Twitter: @EVEAndski "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

Ai Shun

Likes received: 1,200

#129 - 2012-02-21 06:40:59 UTC

Reilly Duvolle wrote:

Questioning something is one thing. It implies you are asking a question.

Reilly Duvolle wrote:

But The Mittani does not want Tech nerfed because "it has a poor effect it on game balance". Thats laughable.

He wants it nerfed because his in-game enemies has even more tech income. That income translates to finanical muscle to purchase - among other things - supercaps (another of Mittanis favorite nerf objectives). And since Goonswarm is unable to take all this tech by force, the strategic imbalance between CFC and Team Tech grows every day.

So, what naturally follows from this situation is Goon two main stratetic objectives - nerf tech income and (preferably) nerf subercaps into oblivion. Sure it will hit Goonswarm hard as well, but it will free them to capitilize on their biggest assets, their numbers. A double nerf (tech + supers) will hit team tech far harder - setting the stage for Goon dominance later on. Also, since this stratgy actually hurts Goons, you can capitalize on it in your propaganda war.

Which is what you are doing here.

That is not a question. That is a statement.

Reilly Duvolle

Hydra Squadron

Likes received: 490

#130 - 2012-02-21 06:45:18 UTC

Ai Shun wrote:

Reilly Duvolle wrote:

That is not a question. That is a statement.

Indeed it is. I am giving you my opinion. You can coose to belive it. Or not. Its up to you.

And please, keep splitting hairs. You are so very good at it.

Grumpy Owly

Imperial Shipment

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 699

#131 - 2012-02-21 06:50:46 UTC

Ai Shun wrote:

But I get annoyed when people make allegations without proof, slander people and then dance amongst the flowers as if they don't smell like ****.

I can see having a rational argument with some people might be impossible.

When it comes to development of a game I pay for, meta interests are very relevant especially when it neglects certain portions of the playerbase.

Depsite that you ask for confirmation of motivations, done, but don't project judgement on me to validate your own preferences as a result. Vote for who you like of course, no problem, I will do so likewise, but don't raise certain CSM members up to be objective as an argument when clearly they are not.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling

Jita Alt666

Likes received: 1,441

#132 - 2012-02-21 06:53:50 UTC

Reilly Duvolle wrote:

Ai Shun wrote:

Reilly Duvolle wrote:

That is not a question. That is a statement.

Indeed it is. I am giving you my opinion. You can coose to belive it. Or not. Its up to you.

And please, keep splitting hairs. You are so very good at it.

So your opinion is that if Goons had more tech than everybody else combined they would not be advocating its nerf, but because they have less than 50% of the tech in the game they want it nerfed cause the collateral damage would be worse for the rest of eve than themselves?

Andski

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Likes received: 11,585

#133 - 2012-02-21 07:02:23 UTC

for what it's worth, most of the current tech-holding alliances do not nationalize the moons like GSF does - they are mostly extracted at the corp/personal level. in our current state, we'd most likely be hit harder by the inevitable tech nerf than anybody else.

hope that helps!

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

Reilly Duvolle

Hydra Squadron

Likes received: 490

#134 - 2012-02-21 07:08:35 UTC | Edited by: Reilly Duvolle

Jita Alt666 wrote:

Is a dual problem. Basically they faced an adverse tech situation combined with a supercap superiority they were ill prepared for. Nobody was really prepared for the effectiveness of the supercap blob the anti-NC coalition began using with umpunity from about the time of the siege of TVN-FM in may, 2011.

As I have said in another thread, Titans especially scales badly with numbers, moving from a powerful ship to an unstoppable rapetrain once you field enough of them. This became very evident late last spring, but the Goons did not have the fleet, nor the building capacity to match team Tech anytime soon. And with their worst enemies gaining most of the tech in the North, this would be impossible to rectify.

I think this is the main motivation for their actions in the CSM this year. And frankly I am surprised when non-Goons dont see it. I mean, The Mittani has after all not exactly kept it a secret that he only represents and work for his constituents (i.e. Goons)

But to answer you question directly: had the tables been reversed, with tech and supercap superiority on the Goon side last spring, you can bet that none of these issues had been very high on the CSM agenda with the Mittani as CSM Chairman.

Jita Alt666

Likes received: 1,441

#135 - 2012-02-21 07:14:14 UTC

Reilly Duvolle wrote:

Jita Alt666 wrote:

Your response raises another question who are Tech Team? When did Tech team come into existence?


Reilly Duvolle Hydra Squadron Likes received: 490	#136 - 2012-02-21 07:20:40 UTC Jita Alt666 wrote: Your response raises another question who are Tech Team? When did Tech team come into existence? Team Tech is basically Goonswarms main opponents in the last year, Pandemic legion, Raiden, NCdot, DRF (although the last entity is now shattered in civil war). From DRF, White Noise and Legion of XDeath provided the most combat assets.

Andski

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Likes received: 11,585

#137 - 2012-02-21 07:31:34 UTC

Reilly Duvolle wrote:

But to answer you question directly: had the tables been reversed, with tech and supercap superiority on the Goon side last spring, you can bet that none of these issues had been very high on the CSM agenda with the Mittani as CSM Chairman.

Like when we were blue to the NC and their near-monopoly on tech and massive supercapital fleet?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar


Reilly Duvolle Hydra Squadron Likes received: 490	#138 - 2012-02-21 07:34:02 UTC Andski wrote: Like when we were blue to the NC and their near-monopoly on tech and massive supercapital fleet? Yes. When you and NC were pals and ruled the North, neither Tech nor Supers was a problem, was it?

Andski

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Likes received: 11,585

#139 - 2012-02-21 07:36:43 UTC | Edited by: Andski

Reilly Duvolle wrote:

Andski wrote:

Like when we were blue to the NC and their near-monopoly on tech and massive supercapital fleet?

Yes. When you and NC were pals and ruled the North, neither Tech nor Supers was a problem, was it?

Considering that we loudly advocated nerfing both long before the NC lost the north, you're wrong on that count!

again, baaaaaa, baaaaaa

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar


Reilly Duvolle Hydra Squadron Likes received: 490	#140 - 2012-02-21 07:40:23 UTC Andski wrote: Considering that we loudly advocated nerfing both long before the NC lost the north, you're wrong on that count! again, baaaaaa, baaaaaa And when was "long before NC lost the north" exactly?

First pagePrevious page56789Next pageLast page