These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next page
 

Fix the damn logoff tactic!
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Quebber
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-02-20 11:14:25 UTC
I just got back from a roam, good FC and fun time but it would have been alot more fun if the carrier we grabbed had not logged off.

We caught him at a pos outside of shields, we were in frigs and destroyers, locked him down with webs and ewar, he was going no where and then that was taken away from us by an out of game tactic.

I love pvp, love a good fight and having fun, you can still as most of us know have fun even if you die in a fight (a properly fitted carrier smartbombs etc can have huge fun against a frig fleet).

It is very simple using an out of game tactic should never be a win button for eve, even if someone logs off before you enter system, if you manage in that minute to get that ship tackled and start killing it no out of game event should take that away from you.

Same goes for me, if I am in my carrier or dred I escape, win or fight to the death of the ship but I damn well refuse to use log off as a valid tactic in a game.
Apollo Eros
Percussive Diplomacy
Sedition.
#2 - 2012-02-20 11:46:23 UTC
As long as the most recent aggression took place within 15 minutes he is not going anywhere when he logs.

http://community.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?newpatchlogID=3219

Quote:
The aggression timer for combat has been changed. When logging off in space with PVP aggression, the ship will be removed from space 15 minutes after log-off, or 15 minutes after the most-recent aggressive act against the ship, whichever is the latest.

[Triple OG LVL 5 Space Wizard]
Quebber
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-02-20 12:31:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Quebber
Your not really getting what I mean, Logging off should not be a valid tactic in any way, yes I know the 15 mins but that seems to only become active if that the agressive act happens before the person logs.

What I am saying is if your scout jumps in system and manages to tackle a thanatos even if the pilot logged of 5 seconds or 55 seconds beforehand the ship is still a valid lockable target thus if grabbed and agressed 15 min timer should start.

We had 30+ frigs and destroyers scraming webbing shooting this carrier and then it just disapeared.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-02-20 12:43:23 UTC
Quebber wrote:
Your not really getting what I mean

try to pvp next time.

or learn to read. Quote clearly says "15 minutes after the most recent attack". That carrier couldn't get anywhere as long as someone shoots it or use any module.

If your story is trustful then make petition because this is obvious bug in agression timer mechanics.

Or undock and try to pvp. You will see.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#5 - 2012-02-20 13:00:04 UTC
Petition it, or stop talking crap.
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#6 - 2012-02-20 13:07:26 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Quebber wrote:
Your not really getting what I mean

try to pvp next time.

or learn to read. Quote clearly says "15 minutes after the most recent attack". That carrier couldn't get anywhere as long as someone shoots it or use any module.

If your story is trustful then make petition because this is obvious bug in agression timer mechanics.

Or undock and try to pvp. You will see.


Dude, don't be like that. This is a discussion forum and if you need PVP then get it in game. The advantage that Quebber has over you or anyone else is that he was there. You were not. I was not.... and I have no reason to doubt that what he said is what actually happened.

Having said that, I agree with March that the OP should petition it to get a clear statement on the new mechanic because I also *thought* that if you aggro'd a ship from a logged off pilot that it wouldn't despawn as long as you were still attacking it. I would be curious to hear what CCP has to say about this case. It's possible they overlooked something when they changed the mechanic that should be brought to their attention.

T-
Quebber
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-02-20 13:14:02 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Quebber wrote:
Your not really getting what I mean

try to pvp next time.

or learn to read. Quote clearly says "15 minutes after the most recent attack". That carrier couldn't get anywhere as long as someone shoots it or use any module.

If your story is trustful then make petition because this is obvious bug in agression timer mechanics.

Or undock and try to pvp. You will see.


Oh boy where to start.. I have been pvping in this game since someone ganked my Navy Raven in a low sec l4 mission and I realised I wanted to fight back that was something like 4 years ago and the last time I did any pve, I was taught by Agony unleashed and since back then (Rho Legate) I have lived in Nulsec.

My current corp, points to the top score and kill count
http://nordic-innovations.com/kb/
But that is nothing..mostly big fleets, nothing special
http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=12156
But even that not very impressive a few kills some fun, a few wars.
Favourite kill of all time ?
http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=12156&m=9&y=2011&scl_id=24 took 2 complete new people in rifter and merlin into 0.0.
And if we go back to Rho Legate before I sold him in november 2010
Before then had some fun times
http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=12156&m=9&y=2011&scl_id=24

I live breath and sleep more pvp than most as most alliances and corps can atest as I top there kill boards.

But now that is out of the way lets get back on topic, I have seen it happen more than once recently so if it is a bug then I will report it.
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#8 - 2012-02-20 14:16:29 UTC
Quebber wrote:


But now that is out of the way lets get back on topic, I have seen it happen more than once recently so if it is a bug then I will report it.


I'm sorry to get off on a tangent but it looks like you've had a lucky month preceded by 9 months of minimal pvp activity, a couple of months of being awake again and then 18 months of next to nothing.

I'm happy for you that you had this good month. >500 kills in one month is a noteworthy achievement and sincerely something to be proud of. However, for recruiting, I prefer to find the guys who make 100 kills a month every month and show a consistent pattern of activity. Those are the ones who I really think love the PVP to keep coming back week after week for more.

Something very amusing to me, is that the last time you and I encountered each other in space, I podded you. :) In fact, I think you were the only one in your fleet that died since your guys brought 355 to fight our 52. We stood and fought...... We lost the fight, lost most of our fleet and lost the POS but showed you whose balls were bigger and redder. Your pod didn't show any implants. I guess you were *that* confident even wtih 7x as many in your fleet :)

But seriously, It's all in fun and I'd be happy to have you if you felt like PVP-ing consistently.

Please keep us up to date about what CCP says. If they made a mistake coding the new logoffski rules then I'd like to know.

T-
Quebber
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-02-20 15:09:37 UTC
Tangent first :)
I have only ever been inactive in eve for one month that was january this year (illness in family) Rho legate was active every day of every month while I owned him august 2009 - june 2010, Quebber I bought to take his place (and three other chars had three racial chars and wanted one that could do all)Quebber was active from the day I bought him. November 2010 till March 2011.
At that point I returned to hisec brought in 10 real life friends and began to teach them eve, we then rented from xxdeath so I could teach them sov/industry etc, 200 subcaps and 3 carriers later we went back to hisec and I started the challenging job of finding an alliance/corp for us, we found that finally in December 2011, with Black Mark.

Implants, well I am the kind of person who does not like to miss any fleet I am able to join so regularly pod myself to get to a staging location (jump clones only help so much) and poding self to get back in a new ship to rejoin is good.

I have been in many fleets fighting overwhelming numbers (I was in fountain defending IT (blade) against goons back then lol) kudos to anyone, any number of ships willing to fight even against odds. :)

Petition is in at this moment waiting for reply, will post it here,
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-02-20 15:13:32 UTC
Quebber wrote:
Oh boy where to start..

maybe you should start from reading this article?
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Combat_Timers#PvP_Log_Off_Timer_.2815_Minutes.29

then:
1. make sure you understand it well.
2. report bug and make a petition.
3. come here and post CCP GM answer "logs show nothing" Big smile

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-02-20 15:21:54 UTC
You think thats annoying....

Have you had the guy warp off with a scram on them? only to be caught again on another gate less than a minute later and killed, confirming no stabs on them.

Definilty worse than log of mechanic stupidity

GMs say theres no logs, dispite this happening a few times a month ive given up petitioning it.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#12 - 2012-02-20 15:26:14 UTC
Quebber wrote:
Tangent first :)
I have only ever been inactive in eve for one month that was january this year (illness in family) Rho legate was active every day of every month while I owned him august 2009 - june 2010, Quebber I bought to take his place (and three other chars had three racial chars and wanted one that could do all)Quebber was active from the day I bought him. November 2010 till March 2011.
At that point I returned to hisec brought in 10 real life friends and began to teach them eve, we then rented from xxdeath so I could teach them sov/industry etc, 200 subcaps and 3 carriers later we went back to hisec and I started the challenging job of finding an alliance/corp for us, we found that finally in December 2011, with Black Mark.

Implants, well I am the kind of person who does not like to miss any fleet I am able to join so regularly pod myself to get to a staging location (jump clones only help so much) and poding self to get back in a new ship to rejoin is good.

I have been in many fleets fighting overwhelming numbers (I was in fountain defending IT (blade) against goons back then lol) kudos to anyone, any number of ships willing to fight even against odds. :)

Petition is in at this moment waiting for reply, will post it here,


Well reasoned response not hiding behind forum anonymity even after being poked in the ribs. I get a sense of you as a someone with integrity and a strong and stable personality. Makes me wonder why you fly with Goons (LOL) ... but seriously, I hope to encounter you in game.

T-
Quebber
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-02-20 16:57:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Quebber
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:


Well reasoned response not hiding behind forum anonymity even after being poked in the ribs. I get a sense of you as a someone with integrity and a strong and stable personality. Makes me wonder why you fly with Goons (LOL) ... but seriously, I hope to encounter you in game.

T-



I look forward to it as well being pvpers we get cast in darkness but a lot of us do this madness not to grief or destroy, we fight our enemies we defend our space but it is the "what if" or "what happens next" that drives us, every gate, every undock, waiting on a titan, sitting solo on a gate..your skills, luck, lag and not knowing wth is waiting for you on the other side of that gate/bridge.


I was actually very suprised how much fun goon fleets are, with some pretty awesome FC's, spent time in gate camps, roams and general wth is going on fleets but having more fun than in a long time. Although my own personal ideals mean I do not scam disrespect or smack talk anyone I fight.

At the same time its nice to be spending time around cloud ring defending space, making a home of sorts.

Respect and kudos to anyone willing to undock for a fight, whether win or loose you kick ass this is what we live for.

On a relevant note, i too have seen the bloody annoying bug where 100% you know that you have some one pointed/scrammed and they just warp away, 1-2 jumps later the target dies and no stabs.
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#14 - 2012-02-20 17:35:33 UTC
Quebber wrote:
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:


Well reasoned response not hiding behind forum anonymity even after being poked in the ribs. I get a sense of you as a someone with integrity and a strong and stable personality. Makes me wonder why you fly with Goons (LOL) ... but seriously, I hope to encounter you in game.

T-



I look forward to it as well being pvpers we get cast in darkness but a lot of us do this madness not to grief or destroy, we fight our enemies we defend our space but it is the "what if" or "what happens next" that drives us, every gate, every undock, waiting on a titan, sitting solo on a gate..your skills, luck, lag and not knowing wth is waiting for you on the other side of that gate/bridge.
...snip....



what is waiting on the other side of the bridge might be ME ":)

looking at your kills you might be living in a staion where I still have stuff locked down. OOTY used to be in the middle of nowhere when the RMT Russians pushed their bulky ass toward the north and we fought against them in the NC.... today it might be much closer to the front and now I'm working as a merc with the RMT Russians to push people like you into syndicate.

Time will tell if you choose to join us or we must join you.....

T-
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#15 - 2012-02-20 17:57:59 UTC
I thought that CCP changed this, however upon inspection of this page, here is my opinion on what happened. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Combat_Timers#PvP_Log_Off_Timer_.2815_Minutes.29

Carrier pilot logs outside pos as tacklers are coming out of warp on his grid. There is no pvp timer, the 1 minute log-off timer is in effect.
Carrier begins aligning for its e-warp
Tacklers lock down the carrier, preventing it from warping away. If the pilot had a 15 minute pvp timer, it would been refreshed at this point. Because the pilot did not have an active pvp timer and was logged off, he did not get a new 15 minute timer.
1 minute after logging off, the ship disappears from space.

yeah, i agree this is stupid. if you are aggressed while logged off under any timer, you should gain a 15 minute pvp timer.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Griznatch
Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#16 - 2012-02-20 18:05:10 UTC
Confirming the agression has to happen before the logoff. I experienced this a while back when I got disconnected in a safe with my fleet and a corp mate scrammed my ship to keep it from warping away. The ship vanished just before I got logged back in, which was but a short time later.

I used to have a clever sig but I lost it.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#17 - 2012-02-20 18:20:33 UTC
Quebber wrote:


What I am saying is if your scout jumps in system and manages to tackle a thanatos even if the pilot logged of 5 seconds or 55 seconds beforehand the ship is still a valid lockable target thus if grabbed and agressed 15 min timer should start.



If someone logs off with no aggression then they shouldn't stick around for 15 mins just so you can gank a AFK ship. While logoffski sucks there is no legit reason to keep a ship in space for 15 mins if it has given no one aggression. People have real life they have to often deal with and even the internet or game issues that also cause them to lose connections.

If the ship has given aggression then by all means it should stay in space for 15 mins, but not if it hasn't given agrro to anyone.
Quebber
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-02-20 18:39:52 UTC
Batelle wrote:
I thought that CCP changed this, however upon inspection of this page, here is my opinion on what happened. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Combat_Timers#PvP_Log_Off_Timer_.2815_Minutes.29

Carrier pilot logs outside pos as tacklers are coming out of warp on his grid. There is no pvp timer, the 1 minute log-off timer is in effect.
Carrier begins aligning for its e-warp
Tacklers lock down the carrier, preventing it from warping away. If the pilot had a 15 minute pvp timer, it would been refreshed at this point. Because the pilot did not have an active pvp timer and was logged off, he did not get a new 15 minute timer.
1 minute after logging off, the ship disappears from space.

yeah, i agree this is stupid. if you are aggressed while logged off under any timer, you should gain a 15 minute pvp timer.


This actually makes sense and needs changing, there is some really skilled scouts out there who can be ready and grab something within that minute, if you get on grid and tackle, shoot it then it should stay.
Quebber
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-02-20 18:56:43 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
Quebber wrote:


What I am saying is if your scout jumps in system and manages to tackle a thanatos even if the pilot logged of 5 seconds or 55 seconds beforehand the ship is still a valid lockable target thus if grabbed and agressed 15 min timer should start.



If someone logs off with no aggression then they shouldn't stick around for 15 mins just so you can gank a AFK ship. While logoffski sucks there is no legit reason to keep a ship in space for 15 mins if it has given no one aggression. People have real life they have to often deal with and even the internet or game issues that also cause them to lose connections.

If the ship has given aggression then by all means it should stay in space for 15 mins, but not if it hasn't given agrro to anyone.


We are saying IF it is caught within that 1m it stays visible and in game after you log off then agression timer should active.
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-02-20 19:18:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Andre Vauban
Quebber wrote:
Batelle wrote:
I thought that CCP changed this, however upon inspection of this page, here is my opinion on what happened. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Combat_Timers#PvP_Log_Off_Timer_.2815_Minutes.29

Carrier pilot logs outside pos as tacklers are coming out of warp on his grid. There is no pvp timer, the 1 minute log-off timer is in effect.
Carrier begins aligning for its e-warp
Tacklers lock down the carrier, preventing it from warping away. If the pilot had a 15 minute pvp timer, it would been refreshed at this point. Because the pilot did not have an active pvp timer and was logged off, he did not get a new 15 minute timer.
1 minute after logging off, the ship disappears from space.

yeah, i agree this is stupid. if you are aggressed while logged off under any timer, you should gain a 15 minute pvp timer.


This actually makes sense and needs changing, there is some really skilled scouts out there who can be ready and grab something within that minute, if you get on grid and tackle, shoot it then it should stay.


EDIT: Removed incorrect information.

.
123Next page