These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Assembly Hall

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

CSM Regional Election Format?

First post
Author
Zirise
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2011-09-09 02:57:33 UTC
Levarr Burton wrote:



Political expert here, and this idea is bad. Creating artificial divisions in the representation of the player base will only serve to reduce the effectiveness of the CSM both as a sounding board for CCP and as a representative of the players themselves. On top of that, the increased confusion of the representative process is likely to increase voter apathy, and reduce participation, which is counter-productive for everyone.

Furthermore, you would need to have a fool-proof system for determining what category each corporation and candidate falls into, and you have to take into account change and outliers from the standard patterns of behaviour. My corporation lived in wormholes for a year and a half, if I'd been elected the "Wormhole" representative on the CSM 2 months before we moved to nullsec, which position would I hold? Would I have to resign, or take part in a by-election to hold my seat? If a corporation or alliance lives largely in lowsec, but consistently is able and willing to project power into all reaches of nullsec, which seat do they hold? If a highsec mission-running corporation starts roaming lowsec in between missions, are they still a highsec corporation? In order to implement your system, the divisions between areas of space, and participation in those areas, would need to be far more definite and static.

Also, I would point out that having 3 representatives from NPC corporations is basically just a way to stack the CSM with either more highsec members, cyno alts, or 10-hour hero suicide destroyer pilots.

Moving on, it is a terrible idea to allocate representation without regard to population. A good real-world example of this is the American Senate, 100 members, evenly divided between 50 states. A state with one million voters holds as much influence as a state with thirty million. What your 3-3-3-3-3 system would do is over represent people from relatively sparsely inhabited sections of space (namely low security and wormhole space) and under represent more highly populated areas of space such as high security and sovereign null security space. That imbalance will further disenfranchise people from the idea of the CSM.

It is also a bad idea to force representation levels without regard to political participation. Why are there so many representatives from null security alliances? Because that is the main demographic that was motivated to participate in this past election. Each of the successful candidates managed to organize one of the top-9 political machines in the contest. They were most effective at communicating their ideas, they were most effective at convincing the eligible voters to check their name instead of somebody else's. In short, they were, in a democratic voting system, the best candidates. Regardless of your opinion of their view on highsec missions, ************, or icelandic prostitutes, those 9 people are, by the metric of votes earned, the best candidates. Nothing was stopping highsec organizations from trying to form a voting bloc for their preferred candidates, yet they largely did not. The null security candidates got their target audience on-side with their ideas, and (more importantly) participating in the process. Why should a candidate with more votes be passed up for a candidate with fewer votes (as in, an inferior candidate) simply because "there's already 3 from wormhole space" or wherever? That approach will only serve to promote voter apathy (as the 4th-place candidate might not get to sit on the theoretical 15-spot CSM, while a 16th-place candidate might).

Imposing such a flawed structure on the CSM in a misguided search for "fairness" (with "fairness," in this case, actually meaning "getting more exposure for MY ideas, regardless of their actual merit, feasibility, and usefulness in the quest to improve EVE Online: A Bad Game in general, not just nitpick 3 things which inherently benefit my playstyle.") will only serve to reduce both the effectiveness of the institution itself as well as the involvement of the player community in the development of the game. And we've all seen what happens when CCP management operates in a bubble of self-reinforcing ideas without some stern input from the players. They force the developers to toss out half-finished fluff with no real utility, and then go chasing the next shiny.
paritybit
Stimulus
#22 - 2011-09-14 22:33:02 UTC  |  Edited by: paritybit
This won't help. Not that I think nothing should be done; this just isn't it.

The CSM was created to represent all players, in a sort of deliberative democracy, as advisers to CCP who are the legislators (in the sense that they directly author the laws of New Eden with ones and zeros). The problem with CCP's chosen approach is that it relies on representatives to be public servants instead of self-serving. Some of the current representatives are skewed toward this ideal (Trebor) while others are most definitely not (Mittens). But this is the fault of the voters rather than the council.

In the end, it's about voting -- if people don't vote, and vote with the best interest of the game in mind, then they're not going to be represented the way they want to. Some groups have very effective communication infrastructure, and these groups come out ahead in the polls because their members are directed. The rest have very little knowledge about what the CSM is or even when it's time to vote. And because of this lack of communication, there is low voter turnout. And because of low voter turnout, we have election results skewed in favor groups like the Goons. There is nothing you can do about this until there is a more effective campaign for votes.

CCP really should do more than simply place an announcement on the login screen. I never pay attention to the announcements there because I'm trying to log in to play my favorite game. I may catch the message quickly as I click the connect button and wait for the logon to finish, but I don't really see it. I imagine it's the same with others. There ought to be very brief, to the point mailings (this is a better reason than to let us know we just received 1,000 Aurum). There ought to be a modal dialog when entering the game like you get when there's a client-side patch. There ought to be something more.
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#23 - 2011-09-15 00:00:22 UTC
CSM technocratic version? Sure why not...

I must add that before these subsections are added, these regions must be properly weighted, with the numbers of candidates representing each region representative of just how big a deal it is.

In addition, there needs to be a PvP and PvE candidate, or candidates, with relevant knowledge on either issue.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction

Raid'En
#24 - 2011-09-15 01:30:15 UTC
i don't live much on nullsec, but i prefer nice changes for nullsec than no changes at all.

and this CSM have shown us that a united group can do something while some random dudes can't.

so your system may give us nice speech, but i don't think it will give us nice stuff.

i prefer a few little things happening that i like, than lots of really nice things said, but nothing being done.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#25 - 2011-09-15 01:55:12 UTC
Vin Hellsing wrote:
You've never heard of districting, have you?


I have. And proper districting is done according to population so that each district has the same number of voters. That's hard to do with so many people moving around the universe regularly.

I live in highsec. I make my living in wormholes. I roam low/null frequently. Which district am I in? Is it determined by my corp's offices? My activities? Do I just "declare" a home?

Eve doesn't have clear, clean lines by which we can divide the playerbase. We don't have addresses and residences to which we are tied.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#26 - 2011-09-15 02:38:39 UTC
I'm sorry to say this but if I was a CSM representative, I wouldn't represent the interests of "the greater playerbase." Any CSM representative or candidate who ever campaigned on this platform is either delusional or lying outright.

basically what i'm saying is that i love the angry noise coming from hisec level 4 mission bears and wormhole daytrippers, heh

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#27 - 2011-09-15 03:09:55 UTC
Andski wrote:
I'm sorry to say this but if I was a CSM representative, I wouldn't represent the interests of "the greater playerbase." Any CSM representative or candidate who ever campaigned on this platform is either delusional or lying outright.

basically what i'm saying is that i love the angry noise coming from hisec level 4 mission bears and wormhole daytrippers, heh

I agree that no one can reasonable expect CSMs to suddenly drop their priorities and those of the people who voted for them so they can "serve the greater good". That said, it's generally in their interest to make the game fun for as many people as the can without alienating the existing playerbase. To that end, we need to make sure EVERY part of the Eve universe is balanced and fun for the people it appeals to.

It's in the CSM's interest, no matter what their background in the game, to advocate for a game that attracts and retains new players and provides them with a variety of possible paths which can ultimately take them anywhere in the game. That means they need to make sure high, low, and w-space are well-represented as well as their own nullsec regions...Unless they want the game to die.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Previous page12