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EVE Online: Crucible 1.2 Feedback

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Lucas Quaan
DEMONS OF THE HIDDEN MIST
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#101 - 2012-02-16 21:11:57 UTC
Just to add to the statistical relevance of this thread; apart from the ellipses, I like the new overview.

People also need to realise that for every person who has a major issue with a change and posts madly about it, there are probably someone who thinks it's just fine.
Hammar Wolf
Money First
#102 - 2012-02-16 21:12:28 UTC
Dez Affinity wrote:
Such a bad change. All of the overview changes I see. Bad. Bad. Bad.

Firstly. All my columns are resized for no reason, not a huge deal but ****, I thought I was done with resizing **** after every patch. (Also the way you resize, by it affecting only the top bar so you're not sure how much to resize is silly, old way worked easier)

Secondly. It used to be that in the Type or Name columns it would say "Stargate (odeb" and then be cut off because thats as much as I need to know which stargate it is. Now it says "Stargate (o..." THANKS A LOT. Can we please turn elipses off? It's USELESS.

Thirdly. The making one column grey because that's what is sorted - although makes sense from a design point of view, aesthetically it's not great and it seems unneeded, I rarely change my sort criteria for it to confuse me. Either by name or distance.

And finaly. The hovering over to freeze the overview is just uneeded? When I'm waiting for someoen to jump through the gate, I'm waiting with my mouse where they would be (12km) waiting for them to pop up. I guess now I put it at the bottom, but if for some reason I have an already filled overview, say, in high sec. This is really not cool.


This post is a good summary. Overview made less intuitive and harder to adjust. You guys play this often?

Also - why does the destination stargate need to separate itself away to the opposide end of the overview from the other gates now? When I have all the gates sorted so they are together and easy to click on - the one I'm actually supposed to go to is nowhere near them. In a large system I have to choose between scrolling to see the destination gate, or the other ones...

F1 Platoon leader
Teclador
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#103 - 2012-02-16 21:13:00 UTC
Ajita al Tchar wrote:
GOOD THINGS:

The client is definitely faster, awesome! Well done. This is technically one thing, but it subsumes multiple improvements, so yeah


Question Did you really mean Faster Question

I took me more than 4 Minutes to see the Login Screen after hitting the Eve Link on my Desk and this regardless if i play Eve on my Laptop, Old PC (2005) or my Brand New Machine, nothing than Eve Installed on.

^^^^ THIS ^^^^ you can fix in one of the next Patches, Dear CCP.

And hey, when you on a Rush to Fix things CCP, please it is absolutely unnecessary if you which to switch to an other Character of the same Account that you have to Re Log In every time new. This take ages, because the long waiting time until l hit the button and the Login Screen appears again.

You have Copied the way of Billing Eve ( 60 Day GTC ) by Blizzard (oh Yes the Bad once), so please Copy the way to change the Character too.
Funkert
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#104 - 2012-02-16 21:16:50 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Problems that are not CCP's fault:

Habitually having the "default" position of your mouse to be constantly over the overview. This is merely muscle memory and can easily be changed.


Have new targets appearing on grid always appear at the top of the list (but just under any broadcast targets)... which will
probably need a visual clue that these targets are new and outside your normal sort order.


first part: this is not just 'habitual', this is 'optimal' in most cases. you want us to start doing something 'suboptimal' just to prove that we can change our habits?

second part: sounded good the first time i read it, then i though about it.
scenario1: you're involved in a hisec war and you're fighting WT's on the perimeter gate in jita. Every ship that's new to the grid will end up on top?
scenario2: you're in a 400v400 fleetbattle and one group of 20 hostiles keep warping on and off the grid (bombers perhaps). Your FC decides to ignore them. So every time they uncloak your other targets will get pushed 20 spots down?
Johanne D'Arc
Rhine and Courtesan
#105 - 2012-02-16 21:23:53 UTC
Hi, I'm happy playing in a mediocre fashion and accept setbacks in interface design and wish to complain about anyone that dares have an issue with something that is (in their opinion) worse post-patch. I don't know why I insist on wasting my time saying no-u to people about something which I apparently don't care about but there you go. I probably have mental issues in real life.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#106 - 2012-02-16 21:33:26 UTC
Also, now there is an issue with background colours.

For perma flashies i have flashy yellow, for faction wartargets i have flashy orange and for wardec targets i have flashy red backgrounds.
The backgrounds used to flash in unison but now all flash at random intervals making the whole overview looks like a joke with everything flashing out-of-sync.

This may seem trivial but its just another brick in the wall that they shouldve known about and fixed along with a proper overview freeze toggle and noticed that the overview looks insane with pages of wartargets on it when they are all flashing out of sync.

Emergency patch or ive had it with this game. Not because its completely unplayable, but just because they dont deserve the money.
Palovana
Inner Fire Inc.
#107 - 2012-02-16 21:46:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Palovana
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Also, now there is an issue with background colours.

For perma flashies i have flashy yellow, for faction wartargets i have flashy orange and for wardec targets i have flashy red backgrounds.
The backgrounds used to flash in unison but now all flash at random intervals making the whole overview looks like a joke with everything flashing out-of-sync.

This may seem trivial but its just another brick in the wall that they shouldve known about and fixed along with a proper overview freeze toggle and noticed that the overview looks insane with pages of wartargets on it when they are all flashing out of sync.

Reminds me of this.

Please support: export of settings in editable format

Your stuff goes here.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#108 - 2012-02-16 21:53:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Contracts are farked too when using List Mode.

1) The region name overlays in red over the top of the system name in the location column making the system name unreadable.

2) The word "away" was added to the Jumps column making that column require almost 2x more width

e.g.:

"12 jumps" now reads: "12 jumps away"

"away" is superfluous and ties-up too much additional screen real estate.

3) Text that is wider than the column width overlays on top of the text that does display until you increase the width of the column to accommodate it.

Would it not be better if text is truncated if a column is not wide enough to display it, instead of having it wrap over the top? Ya' know, how it used to work.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
#109 - 2012-02-16 21:59:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Daneel Trevize
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Daneel Trevize wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
EDIT - to the guy above me, clearly you have never assigned a shortcut button or used the default (x) to broadcast target and is still using the right click menu for some reason.
I'd need to find/set shortcuts for Broadcast Align To and Warp to, I'm not often broadcasting targets to be locked atm. Also right-clicking to then fleet-warp. Hard to mess up the options when there's text descriptions being clicked, and do/did X and other fleet shortcuts also freeze the overview?



Fleet warp from right click in space - no problem
Beacons. I'm not going use my mouse to swirl my camera around to track down the bracket to right-click it to fleet-warp when there's things on my overview to be locking up & volleyed with my limited 5 locks during a contest. I need the overview to hold still while I'm going to fleet-align/warp to a beacon but also for it to update sanely with rat spawns/new things on grid/when I want it to.

Having at least the option to have only Ctrl/some dedicated shortcut freeze the overview sorting is required, this mouse-over helps for picking out beacons/gates but fails for promptly swapping back to sorting rats together unless I move my mouse away from the overview only to move it back asap to lock more things.
The downside to the old Ctrl='freeze but also targetting' behaviour is the game's contantly telling me I can't target the beacons/gates I'm clicking with a frozen overview, and then that stops my modules from being ready to cycle on the next locked target. Bad UI -> missed chances to get the only volley in before a rat's dead -> lost contests -> no isk.
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#110 - 2012-02-16 22:06:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucas Quaan wrote:
People also need to realise that for every person who has a major issue with a change and posts madly about it, there are probably someone who thinks it's just fine.

I think most people realize it and don't care. I don't care if you like it or not, I don't play eve so that you can have a good time.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#111 - 2012-02-16 22:08:25 UTC
Funkert wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Problems that are not CCP's fault:

Habitually having the "default" position of your mouse to be constantly over the overview. This is merely muscle memory and can easily be changed.


Have new targets appearing on grid always appear at the top of the list (but just under any broadcast targets)... which will
probably need a visual clue that these targets are new and outside your normal sort order.


first part: this is not just 'habitual', this is 'optimal' in most cases. you want us to start doing something 'suboptimal' just to prove that we can change our habits?

second part: sounded good the first time i read it, then i though about it.
scenario1: you're involved in a hisec war and you're fighting WT's on the perimeter gate in jita. Every ship that's new to the grid will end up on top?
scenario2: you're in a 400v400 fleetbattle and one group of 20 hostiles keep warping on and off the grid (bombers perhaps). Your FC decides to ignore them. So every time they uncloak your other targets will get pushed 20 spots down?



In order (and thanks for a well reasoned response):

Leaving your mouse over the overview the majority of the time is optimal in "some" situations. In a gate camp, waiting for a target to uncloak perhaps. Thus (partially) the suggestion that new targets on grid (this would include decloaking) appear at the top... not the bottom. For many their mouse is usually occupied with switching to various already locked targets, activating modules (for the short cut key impaired), and changing direction/approach/orbit/speed/alignment... and the mouse only goes to the overview when selecting new people to target.

Senario 1 and 2:

If new targets appear at the top of the overview (whether it be heavy neutral traffic or that group of stealth bombers warping in and out) I am instantly aware of who, what, and how far away these new arrivals are... which I think for most is critical. Once I have assessed (at a glance) whether I need to be worried or not I flick the mouse away for a split second to resort by my normal priorities (usually distance or ship class).

If they did not appear at the top, I might not be aware of them at all. Especially in a fleet situation I want to instantly know when say a new group of pulse Apocs packing Scorch warps in 30km further away than my current targets. If they warp in at 100km I am still made aware of them, but can instantly get them sorted normally if I determine they are not (yet) a threat.

Your points are excellent and I considered them seriously before making the recommendation. I crammed that all together quickly... hope it made sense.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
BlueLaguna
Minmatar Death Squad
DECOY
#112 - 2012-02-16 22:13:18 UTC
from the last patch
"And in case you’re feeling left out ‘cause you’re not into blobs and stuff, we upped the overview’s target refresh rate from .4hz to 1hz - "

seems while tagging rats it takes longer to show the numbers in the overview is it just me?

ideas for future patches :
add a clear broadcast for watch list or set a timer so the watch listed members broadcast disappear after a set timer that we can adjust
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#113 - 2012-02-16 22:33:59 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Funkert wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Problems that are not CCP's fault:

Habitually having the "default" position of your mouse to be constantly over the overview. This is merely muscle memory and can easily be changed.


Have new targets appearing on grid always appear at the top of the list (but just under any broadcast targets)... which will
probably need a visual clue that these targets are new and outside your normal sort order.


first part: this is not just 'habitual', this is 'optimal' in most cases. you want us to start doing something 'suboptimal' just to prove that we can change our habits?

second part: sounded good the first time i read it, then i though about it.
scenario1: you're involved in a hisec war and you're fighting WT's on the perimeter gate in jita. Every ship that's new to the grid will end up on top?
scenario2: you're in a 400v400 fleetbattle and one group of 20 hostiles keep warping on and off the grid (bombers perhaps). Your FC decides to ignore them. So every time they uncloak your other targets will get pushed 20 spots down?



In order (and thanks for a well reasoned response):

Leaving your mouse over the overview the majority of the time is optimal in "some" situations. In a gate camp, waiting for a target to uncloak perhaps. Thus (partially) the suggestion that new targets on grid (this would include decloaking) appear at the top... not the bottom. For many their mouse is usually occupied with switching to various already locked targets, activating modules (for the short cut key impaired), and changing direction/approach/orbit/speed/alignment... and the mouse only goes to the overview when selecting new people to target.

Senario 1 and 2:

If new targets appear at the top of the overview (whether it be heavy neutral traffic or that group of stealth bombers warping in and out) I am instantly aware of who, what, and how far away these new arrivals are... which I think for most is critical. Once I have assessed (at a glance) whether I need to be worried or not I flick the mouse away for a split second to resort by my normal priorities (usually distance or ship class).

If they did not appear at the top, I might not be aware of them at all. Especially in a fleet situation I want to instantly know when say a new group of pulse Apocs packing Scorch warps in 30km further away than my current targets. If they warp in at 100km I am still made aware of them, but can instantly get them sorted normally if I determine they are not (yet) a threat.

Your points are excellent and I considered them seriously before making the recommendation. I crammed that all together quickly... hope it made sense.




Seriously considered? I thought it was quite simple to work around the overview .

I have a simple solution anyway. Rework the overview freeze toggle and rely in intel and scouts and spacial awareness like people have done for years without problems.

Thanks in advance ccp
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#114 - 2012-02-16 22:54:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Funkert wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Problems that are not CCP's fault:

Habitually having the "default" position of your mouse to be constantly over the overview. This is merely muscle memory and can easily be changed.


Have new targets appearing on grid always appear at the top of the list (but just under any broadcast targets)... which will
probably need a visual clue that these targets are new and outside your normal sort order.


first part: this is not just 'habitual', this is 'optimal' in most cases. you want us to start doing something 'suboptimal' just to prove that we can change our habits?

second part: sounded good the first time i read it, then i though about it.
scenario1: you're involved in a hisec war and you're fighting WT's on the perimeter gate in jita. Every ship that's new to the grid will end up on top?
scenario2: you're in a 400v400 fleetbattle and one group of 20 hostiles keep warping on and off the grid (bombers perhaps). Your FC decides to ignore them. So every time they uncloak your other targets will get pushed 20 spots down?



In order (and thanks for a well reasoned response):

Leaving your mouse over the overview the majority of the time is optimal in "some" situations. In a gate camp, waiting for a target to uncloak perhaps. Thus (partially) the suggestion that new targets on grid (this would include decloaking) appear at the top... not the bottom. For many their mouse is usually occupied with switching to various already locked targets, activating modules (for the short cut key impaired), and changing direction/approach/orbit/speed/alignment... and the mouse only goes to the overview when selecting new people to target.

Senario 1 and 2:

If new targets appear at the top of the overview (whether it be heavy neutral traffic or that group of stealth bombers warping in and out) I am instantly aware of who, what, and how far away these new arrivals are... which I think for most is critical. Once I have assessed (at a glance) whether I need to be worried or not I flick the mouse away for a split second to resort by my normal priorities (usually distance or ship class).

If they did not appear at the top, I might not be aware of them at all. Especially in a fleet situation I want to instantly know when say a new group of pulse Apocs packing Scorch warps in 30km further away than my current targets. If they warp in at 100km I am still made aware of them, but can instantly get them sorted normally if I determine they are not (yet) a threat.

Your points are excellent and I considered them seriously before making the recommendation. I crammed that all together quickly... hope it made sense.




Seriously considered? I thought it was quite simple to work around the overview .

I have a simple solution anyway. Rework the overview freeze toggle and rely in intel and scouts and spacial awareness like people have done for years without problems.

Thanks in advance ccp



Posts like this justify my sig.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
clone667
Wei Shu Forces
#115 - 2012-02-16 22:55:01 UTC
If broadcasts can be moved back over the icon again like it was before, Or make it visiable in Tag AND icon that works too.
Cheers.
Janus Nightmare
Exploding Kitties
#116 - 2012-02-16 23:06:33 UTC
Eyor wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Eyor wrote:
why on earth would you freeze the overview anytime the mouse is over it? locking people's pod after their ship explodes or camping on a gate etc just became unnecessarily more difficult..

Why? New targets still keep appearing to end of the list even you're hoovering over the OV. It just doesn't get sorted before you move your cursor out. This should make it actually much easier to target the pod or guy who appears from cloak.


um.....................no. it makes it infinitely more difficult. before, if you sorted your overview by range and you blew up a ship that was closest to you, the pod would appear in the same spot (obviously because the pod would be at the same range as you)

but now, once the ship blows up, the ghosted bracket of the now deceased ship will stay there and the pod will whip itself at the very bottom of the overview. you could lock the overview from sorting by holding down the "ctrl" button before this patch. why change it to all the time?



I actually like it much better the way it is now. Perhaps for you it seems more difficult, but for others like me it's much easier.

Personally, I say good job all around CCP.
Bent Barrel
#117 - 2012-02-16 23:11:14 UTC
ok so, the patch fixed my probing interface, now probes are active all the time and I don't have to click the chat dialog to be able to move them again :-)

that said, my overall performance went DOWN. warp is visibly jerky/jumping.

one thing I noticed:

when I have "stale" or out of sync targets on my overview in one tab (greyed out ones) and I switched to another tab and back before the patch, the stale entries vanished from the respective tab. now they REPLICATE. so switching tabs gives me each stale entry twice and they also appear in the tab I switched to.

regular overview update clears them but it is far slower than 1Hz (several seconds).
Kalpel
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#118 - 2012-02-16 23:42:37 UTC
I really dislike the NPC flashing ( Red Boxing) on the overview now, the flash takes to long and is too bright IMO, please fix this or change it back to the way it was before thanks

You failed to target nothing! ≡v≡ online ... (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Shade Millith
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#119 - 2012-02-17 00:33:02 UTC
Overview lock when mouse is there. NO

No no no. Terrible change.

CCP. Get it into your heads. This is the kind of thing that NEEDS TO BE A TOGGLE! I don't want it. It gets in the way of my game. I want an option to remove it.

This is exactly the same attitude you had removing shipspinning.

Quote:
I actually like it much better the way it is now. Perhaps for you it seems more difficult, but for others like me it's much easier.

Personally, I say good job all around CCP.


You like it. Grats. But there's many who don't.

Which is why there needs to be an option to turn it off. So YOU can have what you like, and I can have what I like.
Kalpel
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#120 - 2012-02-17 00:50:01 UTC
Kalpel wrote:
I really dislike the NPC flashing ( Red Boxing) on the overview now, the flash takes to long and is too bright IMO, please fix this or change it back to the way it was before thanks


Also i just noticed that when NPC's lock you it's yellow and then it changes to red when they fire, but now what I see is both yellow and red mixed ......... fix is indeed needed

You failed to target nothing! ≡v≡ online ... (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻