Warfare & Tactics

I need advice on how to setup a small gang to take on C4 sleepers that isn't easy pickings for a roaming WH gang. Let me rephrase: a small gang that includes 2 carriers and is the least likely to die when a random gang of death decloaks on top of it. The main problem is we'd like our off hours members to fly sites when as few as 5 pilots are online. I realize this is risky (especially because we always use a 2 carrier RR setup). However, we accept that it is risky and if the opposing gang is big enough and isn't FC'd by a goat we'll die horribly. Nevertheless, there will be some situations where a decent PvP setup capable of taking on sleepers as well will live where as a pure sleeper setup (max drone stuff, dps, etc.) will not survive. Please assume every ship class is available, but that super expensive ships / fits are not optimal.

I will.

What. The. Hell?



Two carriers in a C4 is just asking for everyone to bring in everything they've got. Everyone wants carrier kills. Are they at least triage fitted so when you do get dropped on you have a change at fighting back? Why are you even using carriers at all? Just put everyone in RR Tengus and watch the holes.

Actually nevermind, continue using carriers. For DPS you should add in some dreads with a webbing loki. And what was your holes J number again?

LOL, it's not about the uberness of your ship fit, it's all about your attitude. Very few people are stupid enough to want to try!

A basic 6HML MSB tengu can solo complete some C5 sites. I've only run anoms so far, and am gradually working up to the tougher ones. All the same I am not confident I will be able to complete the mag / radar sites. Of course, being solo tengu, I am not triggering the cap-spawns.

Clearly you can't afford the plonk-a-huge-fleet-in-the-middle-of-the-site approach. You get scrammed, webbed and neuted to oblivion and you're quickly very dead. So doing this is gonna require care, kiting, and time ... a fair bit of time. I ran, and timed, quarantine area over the weekend and it took solo tengu between 1 and 2 hours.
It's not economical, but it can be done and to some sick minds it can be fun.

C4s are correspondingly easier and if your tengu setup can tank those four elite BS spawns then you are going to be able to kill them. Gimpy 5HML LSB variant tanks them no problems, while 6HML MSB variant kills them no problems :-)

Okay, lets assume we have a good scout. I'm still unconvinced that makes the PVE ships safe from attack. I'd feel better if they had a good combination of PVP ships and fits that can still handle sleepers at something other than a very slow pace (speed also makes them less likely to encounter a gank squad).

What Substantia wrote is absolutely correct......and essential!!!!

I've learned the hard way what happens when you don't have your system properly mapped out. In the last 2 years, I have been ganked only once, in another system, in a cheap dessie doing clean up........with-OUT proper security. I normally run sites with alts posted on exits to hear the activation, and my nom'ing tengu running a probe. I know within seconds when a new sig has spawned, and usually already even have it pinned and on sight before a hostile scout pops thru.

Proper intel is key to success......whether nom'ing....or hunting.

Edit: doesn't mean I haven't died to stupid mistakes in wh's, however heeheehee

Myself and a buddy have just upgraded from 4 rr tengu's to 2 carriers and for now tengu's, but will play with other ships, ie NM, etc in our WH. Reason we did this is for the hell of it. Its the 2 of us dual boxing so moving to something bigger will need more people, no one else in the corp is interested in WH and to find new trusted corpies is a pain.
We run the 2 carriers each with triage and a heavy neut and capital shield and rr's. they very cap stable. The tengu's now have disruptors on, just incase we do get jumped. This all btw makes running any sites very boring
Once you have the carriers running support, the other ships could be anything as they will be able to keep them alive, well, maybe not a something that will insta pop, so no rifters I suppose :)
Needless to say we always scan down the wh before we start and will critically close an wh incoming. I guess someone could drop a scan alt and jump us later.. but hey its eve, only way to be safe is to stay docked, not in Jita though cause you will get scammed
I like the idea of the dread with a loki.. may try that out for kicks.

I seem to be in similar situation to drdixie, although not yet any carrier/dread capable ppl in my family. Am in the process of moving to 'solo' C5, now that I know I can clear some of the sites there. Comment re carriers and loki is noted, and appreciated ... although for the time being I am gonna stick to my dearly beloved tengu.

Good luck with your caps in that C4 OP. Will be very interested in how it all turns out for ya.

p.s. OP: Please, for your own sake, do some more research and thinking about managing your system and how to keep a good lookout. It's much, much more effective and efficient than any epeen expansion efforts you might want to undertake. Expanded epeens, in the absence of good intel, are just larger, more expensive KMs waiting to happen.
I have messed up, and lost expensive ships in w-space ... so can only hope that my experiences and past stupidity is able to assist your learning and advancement without having to go thru the same.
Altho Douglas Adams may well have been correct in 'Last chance to see': "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."