These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Hulkageddon has started. Actually more than "an" Hulkageddon.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#161 - 2012-02-17 10:03:33 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Goons don't screw goons. Its the number one no-no in GSF, and why they don't report each other if there is a bot.



So they are hypocrites, that interesting to know if it's indeed true.


What they should do if they really are anti-botting and not just using it as an excuse, is to expel anyone known to use bots from their corp.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#162 - 2012-02-17 10:04:45 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Parthonax wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I've always found it odd that people mine in highsec when 0.0 is so much safer. There's way more ore and better ore too in nullsec, and you're closer to your biggest customers.

I guess the refining is not quite as good though, maybe that's an issue.


Because nullsec alliances earn more money from moongoo then from mining ,and is so much easier to set up and operate i think it is highly inlogical that the commodity that is worth most needs the least work to extract, you just set up a pos n set up a range of reactions and you are done only thing you need to do is to fuel the pos and empty the storage every week or so

Second which serious pvp orientated player wants to babysit over a bunch of miners while he can earn a couple 100 mil doing plexes or anmolies

thirdly ratting bots are easier to handle than real people

Refining in nullsec is aweful compared to highsec refining

etc etc

and lastly one afk cloaker can kill any attempt of industrial expansion in a matter of days


Moon goo can't substitute for minerals, and as said above, the worthwhile moons are almost alwys held on a corp or alliance level, not by individuals. But I wasn't asking why "alliances" don't mine in 0.0. I was asking why hi-sec miners don't mine in 0.0? I am continually being told that sov 0.0 is far safer than hi-sec, and surely the superabundance of ores in superior types can make up for refining inefficiencies? (Also IIRC mining outposts can be upgraded to allow perfect refines)

It seems like it would be a no-brainer for your average hi-sec miner to join a backwater 0.0 alliance and mine all day


Because they think the are unwelcome, or its too dangerous(no matter how many times they are told otherwise) and never give it a try. I've been trying to recruit miners for null on and off for months, and we have only gotten 4-5 keepers who stayed as miners.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#163 - 2012-02-17 10:11:47 UTC
Sasha Azala wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Goons don't screw goons. Its the number one no-no in GSF, and why they don't report each other if there is a bot.



So they are hypocrites, that interesting to know if it's indeed true.


What they should do if they really are anti-botting and not just using it as an excuse, is to expel anyone known to use bots from their corp.



Look at that selective reading.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#164 - 2012-02-17 10:21:07 UTC
Sasha Azala wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Goons don't screw goons. Its the number one no-no in GSF, and why they don't report each other if there is a bot.



So they are hypocrites, that interesting to know if it's indeed true.


What they should do if they really are anti-botting and not just using it as an excuse, is to expel anyone known to use bots from their corp.

Funny thing is, as someone who has free access to their space, I don't see bots there. I've seen more bots in my alliance, and we make botting hell once its confirmed(you get declared KOS, and once you have been bled enough you get kicked from the alliance with all your stuff trapped in our stations).

But being pro-goon is number one for them, period. Its the old you don't rat out your friends rule, and its part of the reason they hold together so well and work so well. Everyone knows they have each others backs, as long as no one turns on each other.

Loyalty is not hypocrisy. If you can't understand that, I'm amazed if you have friends at all.

But maybe thats why you are so buttmad?

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#165 - 2012-02-17 10:30:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Sasha Azala
baltec1 wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Goons don't screw goons. Its the number one no-no in GSF, and why they don't report each other if there is a bot.



So they are hypocrites, that interesting to know if it's indeed true.


What they should do if they really are anti-botting and not just using it as an excuse, is to expel anyone known to use bots from their corp.



Look at that selective reading.




It was not selective reading, the bit I answered was selected, the second paragraph did not indicate that they actually get rid of the botters from their corp.

Edit: So if they have known botters in their corp then they would be hypocrites.
Parthonax
#166 - 2012-02-17 10:30:59 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Parthonax wrote:
Khan Farshatok wrote:

or, and im just throwing this out there as a small possibility, they see all the bots doing it in high sec and think its the place to do it. its ok though noobs of the game. the bots will run out of money way before we do and soon you will come to see that you can make 4 times as much out in 0.0. which is really our intent. more people in 0.0

VOTE MITTANI CSM!!


Well there is rather one small problem with your theory , not only are you and thealot of your goons pure hypocrites , you really have no idea why people refuse to go nullsec and what people really want from this game , you only see your side and even refuse to acknowledge that botting and RMT even exsist in nullsec , while everybody else know pretty well where the real problem with bots are

you are starting this campaign and call it a war against bots while you damn know well that 3 out of 4 victims will be real people and not a macro , all this while you are protecting your own ratting bots tsk tsk

Sometimes i am convinced that if EVE ever dies it will be the arrogance and mentallity of alliances like the goons that will eventually kill the game

Those of us in null don't deny the existence of null bots, and most CFC alliances have anti bot policies(not all, just most of us).

You don't hear about it because we don't raise drama over people slaughtering bots, and laugh at people who get caught in the crossfire for acting too much like a bot.

You really need to realize that most of the problem bots do live in highsec, because its harder to shut them down up there. Here in null, all you have to do is park a cloaky in their system and the bot hides, and won't come out til it has been taught to ignore you(usually takes about a week, at which point you can freely kill it or bring in a different character to shut it down). Highsec bots ignore neuts in system because ::CONCORD:: which makes suicide ganking easier, but for the same reason non-bots act like bots(mostly afk, only moving when they have to, not talking because they are afk) and are gonna get caught if a sweep comes through.


a good point and i certainly don't believe everyone in null sec is as stupid and arrogant as your average goon, I even believe that most players out there are are honest and play fair according to the EULA
just the fact that they behave like they own the bloody game , their arrogance and their view that everybody should play the game their way sometimes really pisses me off
so this is permanence
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#167 - 2012-02-17 10:37:18 UTC
Parthonax wrote:


a good point and i certainly don't believe everyone in null sec is as stupid and arrogant as your average goon, I even believe that most players out there are are honest and play fair according to the EULA
just the fact that they behave like they own the bloody game , their arrogance and their view that everybody should play the game their way sometimes really pisses me off


We play the game as it lets you play.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#168 - 2012-02-17 10:39:20 UTC
Parthonax wrote:

a good point and i certainly don't believe everyone in null sec is as stupid and arrogant as your average goon, I even believe that most players out there are are honest and play fair according to the EULA
just the fact that they behave like they own the bloody game , their arrogance and their view that everybody should play the game their way sometimes really pisses me off

They don't expect everyone to play their game, they expect to be allowed to play their game but everyone else attacks them for it.

Oh, and goons rarely violate the eula, its against their best interests to do so. After all, they have been forced into a position of controlling the game in order to be allowed to play their way(last CSM nerfed the hell out of null, and thats why you now have Mittens as chairman. You can say thanks to highsec CSM reps for that).

Yes, part of their way of playing is harvesting your tears, but in eve thats a far more legit play style than staring at rocks for weeks on end. At least they have fun.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#169 - 2012-02-17 10:43:20 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Parthonax wrote:

a good point and i certainly don't believe everyone in null sec is as stupid and arrogant as your average goon, I even believe that most players out there are are honest and play fair according to the EULA
just the fact that they behave like they own the bloody game , their arrogance and their view that everybody should play the game their way sometimes really pisses me off

They don't expect everyone to play their game, they expect to be allowed to play their game but everyone else attacks them for it.

Oh, and goons rarely violate the eula, its against their best interests to do so. After all, they have been forced into a position of controlling the game in order to be allowed to play their way(last CSM nerfed the hell out of null, and thats why you now have Mittens as chairman. You can say thanks to highsec CSM reps for that).

Yes, part of their way of playing is harvesting your tears, but in eve thats a far more legit play style than staring at rocks for weeks on end. At least they have fun.





You seem to know a lot about the Goons. Are you an ex-Goon or a Goon on another character?
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#170 - 2012-02-17 10:45:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallian Saotome
Sasha Azala wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Parthonax wrote:

a good point and i certainly don't believe everyone in null sec is as stupid and arrogant as your average goon, I even believe that most players out there are are honest and play fair according to the EULA
just the fact that they behave like they own the bloody game , their arrogance and their view that everybody should play the game their way sometimes really pisses me off

They don't expect everyone to play their game, they expect to be allowed to play their game but everyone else attacks them for it.

Oh, and goons rarely violate the eula, its against their best interests to do so. After all, they have been forced into a position of controlling the game in order to be allowed to play their way(last CSM nerfed the hell out of null, and thats why you now have Mittens as chairman. You can say thanks to highsec CSM reps for that).

Yes, part of their way of playing is harvesting your tears, but in eve thats a far more legit play style than staring at rocks for weeks on end. At least they have fun.

You seem to know a lot about the Goons. Are you an ex-Goon or a Goon on another character?

I see you know next to nothing about Eve politics. Core CFC is Goons, TEST, and FA, with FA being the little brother of the 3. I know about goons because I fly with them every day.

Edit: I also know, tbh, because I have given joining serious consideration a couple times. Its a good place to be because goons take care of each other. Sadly, FA's culture appeals to me just a little bit more.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#171 - 2012-02-17 10:48:54 UTC
Sasha Azala wrote:





You seem to know a lot about the Goons. Are you an ex-Goon or a Goon on another character?


This post is a fine example of bitter people being bitter about things they know very little about.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#172 - 2012-02-17 10:54:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Sasha Azala
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Parthonax wrote:

a good point and i certainly don't believe everyone in null sec is as stupid and arrogant as your average goon, I even believe that most players out there are are honest and play fair according to the EULA
just the fact that they behave like they own the bloody game , their arrogance and their view that everybody should play the game their way sometimes really pisses me off

They don't expect everyone to play their game, they expect to be allowed to play their game but everyone else attacks them for it.

Oh, and goons rarely violate the eula, its against their best interests to do so. After all, they have been forced into a position of controlling the game in order to be allowed to play their way(last CSM nerfed the hell out of null, and thats why you now have Mittens as chairman. You can say thanks to highsec CSM reps for that).

Yes, part of their way of playing is harvesting your tears, but in eve thats a far more legit play style than staring at rocks for weeks on end. At least they have fun.

You seem to know a lot about the Goons. Are you an ex-Goon or a Goon on another character?

I see you know next to nothing about Eve politics. Core CFC is Goons, TEST, and FA, with FA being the little brother of the 3. I know about goons because I fly with them every day.

Edit: I also know, tbh, because I have given joining serious consideration a couple times. Its a good place to be because goons take care of each other. Sadly, FA's culture appeals to me just a little bit more.



I know about TEST, just forgot about FA maybe that's because FA's the little brother as you quaintly put it.


Edit: So maybe you can answer this question. Do the Goons and it associates that are supposedly trying to get rid of bots from the game get rid of all known botters from their corps?
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#173 - 2012-02-17 10:59:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallian Saotome
Sasha Azala wrote:
I know about TEST, just forgot about FA maybe that's because FA's the little brother as you quaintly put it.

Honestly, there are alot of other alliances who are equal members, but our 3 are the biggest ones, who provide most of the man power(in the order I had listed them) and also the 3 who provide the most drama Twisted

Edit to reply to your edit: Goons don't investigate(as that is CCPs job), so there are no known botters. I have no clue on TEST policies, tbh FA and TEST don't always see eye to eye(god it was fun shooting at them for that one week, I think they need to bring Zagdul more hookers) and FA has a VERY strict antibot policy.

But, even if you somehow proved a bot in goons, we come back to the loyalty issue. Goons are loyal to each other, and unless the bot makes a move against another goon, they will be ignored.

Its very very simple. Goons don't screw Goons, so stop asking if they screw bots in the alliance. Those bots are still Goons til they violate the actual rules and do something that screws goons.

However, as I said, I've almost never seen bots in goon space, and have heard of 2(both of which got heavily trolled internally), so the question is effectively moot. Why would they bot with all that freaking tech? They make over 600 BILLION isk a month off of tech alone.

Why would you bot when you make that much isk legitimately?

One more edit: You know that Goons are not an EvE thing, right? They come from outside the game as a group, and follow the rules from outside to determine whats allowed in the alliance.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#174 - 2012-02-17 11:26:15 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:
I know about TEST, just forgot about FA maybe that's because FA's the little brother as you quaintly put it.

Honestly, there are alot of other alliances who are equal members, but our 3 are the biggest ones, who provide most of the man power(in the order I had listed them) and also the 3 who provide the most drama Twisted

Edit to reply to your edit: Goons don't investigate(as that is CCPs job), so there are no known botters. I have no clue on TEST policies, tbh FA and TEST don't always see eye to eye(god it was fun shooting at them for that one week, I think they need to bring Zagdul more hookers) and FA has a VERY strict antibot policy.

But, even if you somehow proved a bot in goons, we come back to the loyalty issue. Goons are loyal to each other, and unless the bot makes a move against another goon, they will be ignored.

Its very very simple. Goons don't screw Goons, so stop asking if they screw bots in the alliance. Those bots are still Goons til they violate the actual rules and do something that screws goons.

However, as I said, I've almost never seen bots in goon space, and have heard of 2(both of which got heavily trolled internally), so the question is effectively moot. Why would they bot with all that freaking tech? They make over 600 BILLION isk a month off of tech alone.

Why would you bot when you make that much isk legitimately?

One more edit: You know that Goons are not an EvE thing, right? They come from outside the game as a group, and follow the rules from outside to determine whats allowed in the alliance.




There should not be a loyalty issue where botters are concerned, if they want to be seen as trying to get rid of bots.


I am aware that the Goons are not just tied to this game but only because I've heard it before, there's other groups that do similar things.


Actually a Goon tried to recruit me once whilst I was in another player corp, did not take the offer even though he was not asking for isk. Mind you that was a few years back.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#175 - 2012-02-17 11:34:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallian Saotome
Sasha Azala wrote:
There should not be a loyalty issue where botters are concerned, if they want to be seen as trying to get rid of bots.

Loyalty to friends is loyalty to friends, period. If you don't understand that, I'm sorry for your life.

Quote:
Actually a Goon tried to recruit me once whilst I was in another player corp, did not take the offer even though he was not asking for isk. Mind you that was a few years back.

Goonwaffe, or one of the member corps? Member corps in GSF have their own rules, and as long as those rules don't violate the GSF rules(number one is, and always will be, Goons first) and in a few cases aren't really considered true goons(WI comes to mind, they have their own identity separate from Goons, and as such are WI first, Goons second).

Edit: feel free to like any of my posts, tbfh, I'm a total forum like whore.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#176 - 2012-02-17 11:48:19 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:
There should not be a loyalty issue where botters are concerned, if they want to be seen as trying to get rid of bots.

Loyalty to friends is loyalty to friends, period. If you don't understand that, I'm sorry for your life.

Quote:
Actually a Goon tried to recruit me once whilst I was in another player corp, did not take the offer even though he was not asking for isk. Mind you that was a few years back.

Goonwaffe, or one of the member corps? Member corps in GSF have their own rules, and as long as those rules don't violate the GSF rules(number one is, and always will be, Goons first) and in a few cases aren't really considered true goons(WI comes to mind, they have their own identity separate from Goons, and as such are WI first, Goons second).

Edit: feel free to like any of my posts, tbfh, I'm a total forum like *****.



I understand loyalty, just not blind loyalty. Blind loyalty can make you as bad as them. Loyalty is a two way street accept it any other way and then you would be a fool.

It was actually the Goons themselves not one the associate corps, but like I said it was some years back.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#177 - 2012-02-17 12:12:48 UTC
Sasha Azala wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:
There should not be a loyalty issue where botters are concerned, if they want to be seen as trying to get rid of bots.

Loyalty to friends is loyalty to friends, period. If you don't understand that, I'm sorry for your life.

Quote:
Actually a Goon tried to recruit me once whilst I was in another player corp, did not take the offer even though he was not asking for isk. Mind you that was a few years back.

Goonwaffe, or one of the member corps? Member corps in GSF have their own rules, and as long as those rules don't violate the GSF rules(number one is, and always will be, Goons first) and in a few cases aren't really considered true goons(WI comes to mind, they have their own identity separate from Goons, and as such are WI first, Goons second).

Edit: feel free to like any of my posts, tbfh, I'm a total forum like *****.



I understand loyalty, just not blind loyalty. Blind loyalty can make you as bad as them. Loyalty is a two way street accept it any other way and then you would be a fool.

It was actually the Goons themselves not one the associate corps, but like I said it was some years back.

You should totally try and get ahold of the person offering to sponsor you. Instead of sounding like a emo forum rage poster, you can see what they are really about, and make educated decisions from the inside.

If they aren't in GSF anymore, then you might look into joining one of the other CFC alliances(I hear TEST takes anybody who can stand to listen to their comms) and educate yourself on all the various cultures there.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#178 - 2012-02-17 12:21:16 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:
There should not be a loyalty issue where botters are concerned, if they want to be seen as trying to get rid of bots.

Loyalty to friends is loyalty to friends, period. If you don't understand that, I'm sorry for your life.

Quote:
Actually a Goon tried to recruit me once whilst I was in another player corp, did not take the offer even though he was not asking for isk. Mind you that was a few years back.

Goonwaffe, or one of the member corps? Member corps in GSF have their own rules, and as long as those rules don't violate the GSF rules(number one is, and always will be, Goons first) and in a few cases aren't really considered true goons(WI comes to mind, they have their own identity separate from Goons, and as such are WI first, Goons second).

Edit: feel free to like any of my posts, tbfh, I'm a total forum like *****.



I understand loyalty, just not blind loyalty. Blind loyalty can make you as bad as them. Loyalty is a two way street accept it any other way and then you would be a fool.

It was actually the Goons themselves not one the associate corps, but like I said it was some years back.

You should totally try and get ahold of the person offering to sponsor you. Instead of sounding like a emo forum rage poster, you can see what they are really about, and make educated decisions from the inside.

If they aren't in GSF anymore, then you might look into joining one of the other CFC alliances(I hear TEST takes anybody who can stand to listen to their comms) and educate yourself on all the various cultures there.



Emo rage poster? Nothing to emo rage about.

I don't have any ill intent towards the Goons or their associates, I do think some of their actions can be counter productive to the game though. But I'm sure some people will have a different view, people are people after all.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#179 - 2012-02-17 12:35:46 UTC
Sasha Azala wrote:
Emo rage poster? Nothing to emo rage about.

I don't have any ill intent towards the Goons or their associates, I do think some of their actions can be counter productive to the game though. But I'm sure some people will have a different view, people are people after all.

Sorry if that emo rage poster bit didn't come across quite right. Your first few posts came across that way, tho subsequently you have shown yourself to be rational and able to discuss it clearly.

I say join another CFC alliance because it will allow you to see whats going on first hand, and considering the only REAL rule in the CFC is that everybody fights, you are bound to find an alliance or corp with a culture that suits you.

Its not like CFC alliance never tell goons to go fly a kite when they make requests of us that run counter to alliance goals. But when the CFC calls for a coalition wide invasion or defense, every alliance contributes, or can leave the coalition.

Or do like some other alliance ha done and fly 13 freighters through someone elses JB network, then complain when its out of fuel Cool

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.