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Hulkageddon has started. Actually more than "an" Hulkageddon.
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Jafit
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-02-15 11:56:04 UTC
It's interesting how Moon mining and PI are other forms of resource gathering in this game introduced since belt mining, and they're passive in nature rather than requiring players to sit in a ship and shoot at something. I like to think that this is because CCP realised how bad mining gameplay is, but that probably isn't the reason.

As for bots, any activity that is boring and monotonous, and which requires no thought or creativity can and will be botted. This goes for mining, ratting, missions, and Jita 0.01 isk undercutting market PvP. Bots are a symptom of a bad game with boring gameplay. People complain about CCP not banning bots, instead you should complain about the gameplay, and make gameplay that requires human thought and creativity to play, then the bots will go away on their own.

Out of interest does anyone know of any bots that can do probing? If not then that's a step in the right direction.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#22 - 2012-02-15 11:58:36 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
It's a shame they don't do anything about the bots that will inevitably be grinding away on the other side of 0.0 space, but I can see GoonSwarm don't like fighting against the odds anymore, anything that kills the advantage bots have over normal players is a good thing but it's obvious that the Goons are just in it for the profit.

I'm not a 0.0 hater :P I just think this whole game is fubar, some areas more than others.

This basically reminds me of how the UK had a one day strike which was the most useless thing ever because the government actually made money from that and people didn't have to deal with all the usual b.s. public sector workers caused them, in the end this will go on for awhile and then everyone will forget it happened.


Some alliances do have organized, dedicated bot hunting teams that spend time hunting those buggers.

The problem is, each bot takes around a week to get a single kill on, because you have to make it ignore you before you can get a shot at it, and that means cloaky camping the system the bot in til you get whitelisted so they can actually make money again.

Highsec bots don't autodock when a neut enters system(can you imagine), so are easier targets.

Oh, and as someone who spends alot of time running an orca to support miners, only a botter would support the current system not needing an overhaul, because the only way to make the current system fun is with a group of being getting highly intoxicated.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#23 - 2012-02-15 12:00:11 UTC
Jafit wrote:
...
As for bots, any activity that is boring and monotonous, and which requires no thought or creativity can and will be botted. ..


I knew it!
Those little thrashers were behaving oddly. Someone forgot the trollolol text module! Bear

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Khan Farshatok
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#24 - 2012-02-15 12:02:45 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Remember about it when you will be voitng four "your" CSM candidate


yes remember, VOTE MITTANI CSM!!
Captain Vampire
Perkone
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-02-15 12:04:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Vampire
Khan Farshatok wrote:
first as the initiator and main "organizer" of what is going on, let me be blunt. this is in no way shape or form any sort of hulkaggedon. this is quite simply me being bored and my corp joining in for the lol's. as for us not being in it for the tears, you really dont know goons :D

if for some reason though you heppened to be popped, podded and laughed at during our little run of tear gathering, then please feel free to fill out our "im not a bot" reimbursement form[/url]. because we really only wanted to kill da bots. :D

love, horses and ponies
khan


I really can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not on the reimbursement lol

Anyways, I'm posting you a confirmed bot, a player contracted me on him. Did the usual checks and I'm 110% sure he was a bot! Fill your boots with his tears if you see him "coolbreeze1" is the char!

Ice mining bots can kiss my arse, undecided on the roid bots though, losing them may massively raise the mineral prices. I ain't no miner and never wish to start to save some iskies! lol

Much Love

CV

To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.

Yes we already have spies in your corp muwhahahaha
Arcathra
Technodyne Ltd.
#26 - 2012-02-15 12:09:17 UTC
Let them do this. I'm really curious how this might effect the economy. Especially for themself.
Valei Khurelem
#27 - 2012-02-15 12:21:06 UTC

Quote:
Highsec bots don't autodock when a neut enters system(can you imagine), so are easier targets.


So basically what you're saying is that they're too lazy to go and hunt down the bots themselves? I'd love to do it but I'll get shot if I go there solo. I do think however that sometimes it seems CCP don't even play their game with the kind of things they talk about and the changes they put in, the font debacle is a perfect example because while that's been fixed it took them having to read a several threads of rage on the issue before they seemed to really acknowledge anything, same for stuff like the Nex Store.

Don't game devs play their games anymore? The GM's need to just get into a CONCORD ship and have a look at the 0.0 systems, I bet they have some sort of cheat that will make them invisible on Local too so they would easily be able to catch them. It's like in real life, police don't catch criminals by sitting around in their offices all day doing paper work, they actually have to go out and talk to people about it or catch them in the act.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#28 - 2012-02-15 12:27:46 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:

Quote:
Highsec bots don't autodock when a neut enters system(can you imagine), so are easier targets.


So basically what you're saying is that they're too lazy to go and hunt down the bots themselves? I'd love to do it but I'll get shot if I go there solo. I do think however that sometimes it seems CCP don't even play their game with the kind of things they talk about and the changes they put in, the font debacle is a perfect example because while that's been fixed it took them having to read a several threads of rage on the issue before they seemed to really acknowledge anything, same for stuff like the Nex Store.

Don't game devs play their games anymore? The GM's need to just get into a CONCORD ship and have a look at the 0.0 systems, I bet they have some sort of cheat that will make them invisible on Local too so they would easily be able to catch them. It's like in real life, police don't catch criminals by sitting around in their offices all day doing paper work, they actually have to go out and talk to people about it or catch them in the act.

Its not lazy, its the number of man hours required for them to verify a bot. We can (and do)go hunting, and simply laugh at collateral damage telling people not to act so much like bots. If CCP does the same thing, they have huge drama on their hands, so they have to be sure before they do anything. I was a GM for a different major MMO that shall not be named, and bot reports were a pain to verify. I had to go watch the accused for hours, and if it looked to me like a bot, I had to attempt to talk to them for another hour or so. If I still felt they were a bot, the case got forwarded to the security dept, who pulled logs etc to get further verification. Most bots will survive that, just by ringing a bell when you get a tell.

WoW couldn't beat botters, they had to sue the company that made the bots, and even then its still a problem there. If Blizzard couldn't do it, CCPs resources don't stand a chance.

TL;DR CCP can't beat bots, so we have to.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-02-15 12:55:17 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Its not lazy, its the number of man hours required for them to verify a bot. We can (and do)go hunting, and simply laugh at collateral damage telling people not to act so much like bots. If CCP does the same thing, they have huge drama on their hands, so they have to be sure before they do anything. I was a GM for a different major MMO that shall not be named, and bot reports were a pain to verify. I had to go watch the accused for hours, and if it looked to me like a bot, I had to attempt to talk to them for another hour or so. If I still felt they were a bot, the case got forwarded to the security dept, who pulled logs etc to get further verification. Most bots will survive that, just by ringing a bell when you get a tell.

WoW couldn't beat botters, they had to sue the company that made the bots, and even then its still a problem there. If Blizzard couldn't do it, CCPs resources don't stand a chance.

TL;DR CCP can't beat bots, so we have to.




CCP can't beat bots?

So you're part of the growing group of vigilantes and being a vigilante makes you feel special, I guess. Trouble with vigilantes is that they see themselves above the law (rules) and don't concern themselves with getting their facts right, they convieniently write it off as collateral damage when they get it wrong. Of course there's no rules being broken as you're acting vigilantes in a game, but it's still your reasoning I have doubts with especially as I wonder how much collateral damage you actually do.


If you were a GM you should know better.



I've seen a growing increase in such vigilantes, even bleeding into other MMOs that makes me wonder if such behaviour is being group organised and promoted from outside of the MMOs.
Razzor Death
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-02-15 12:55:23 UTC
Vote Mittani and together we can rid the universe of bots.
Razzor Death
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-02-15 13:00:54 UTC
Sasha Azala wrote:
So you're part of the growing group of vigilantes and being a vigilante makes you feel special


I have no idea what you're talking about but it sounded pretty gay
Razzor Death
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-02-15 13:03:16 UTC
Lady Vella wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
The official Hulkageddon manager has disappeared since a while.

Despite that, Goonswarm have formed a team dedicated to continued exhumers mass destruction that more than replaces Hulkageddon.

In fact, while the original Hulkageddon was something for the "wanna be average Joe ganker" and its balance and prizes were adequate to that, Goonswarm have basically endless funding, quite the grip over a lot of content of the game (some markets, vast 0.0 areas...) and therefore can afford a true, never ending carpet bombing strategy (without discerning between bots and not bots).


How do you feel about this?

Good for the game, because it removes many bots?

Bad because non bots are killed and podded as well?

Good or bad because it sort of pushes ice mining more to 0.0? (if the carpet bombing keeps being as thorough as is now)?

Good because more ships will be made?

Bad because nobody in hi sec can defend from an endless funds huge alliance?

This "different Hulkageddon" poses several philosophical and game design questions.

If they perma-keep the carpet bomb runs (I hope so!), basically this will remove hi sec ice mining for good.
I see it as one of those "exploits" that must be repeated till large playerbase enough quits and the developers wake up off their slumber. (not really exploit in the "illegal" sense of the term, they are fully entitled to this).
Hi sec dwellers are too helpless and fragmented to ever form an effective "counter" and they are against a mammoth, not the usual "average Joe" tears fuelled suicide gankers. Also there's no real defense against an organization that can just bring N + 1 ships whatever buffs / tank you fit (and Macks are not known for their survivability at all).

What tools does EvE give to counter / fight against this potentially (they have not confirmed or denied!) strong and continued initiative?

I rewrite the hypothetical terms in short:

1) Unlimited funding for the operation.
2) Unlimited duration.
3) Unlimited and thorough belts carpet bombing. You can see the same players killed multiple times a day, there's no "recoup the losses by mining more" factor. First time it happens and if Goons are smart they will keep this pressure for months.

Long term consequences of the above on the playerbase (in general)?
0.0 consequences / monopoly? (yes I am baiting you 0.0 haters!)
Choices left to the hi sec miners since whatever they do, they will die?

I find all of this quite intellectually amusing (am I slowing goonizing myself?)



They do nothing but run less than 5-10 jumps of jita/amarr - stay away from there n ur fine, our old corp is a massive mining corp n they lost nothing. Goons as fucktards


Challenge Accepted space friend o7
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#33 - 2012-02-15 13:05:15 UTC
Sasha Azala wrote:

As you've not answered that yes or no question, I'll assume you don't.

You can't call for change if you don't even participate in that activity (health and safety does apply here) what gives you the right to ask for changes under that condition? You could argue but it might be more exciting and you would then mine, but the reality is it's never likely to be as exciting as combat can be. So the chances are you would not do it even if there were changes to it.


Hey, damn me for not spending my life hitting refresh on da interwebs and for having had a power outage lasted 2 hours!

I have mined more than you'll ever do in your life.
I still have a mining subsidiary that can make billions a month.

Like 50% of my posts about markets analysis on Market Discussion are about isotopes. Does it ring a bell maybe?





Mara Rinn wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
You don't get it, do you?

You'll never make mining viable nor fun if not by making it impossible until the devs do something drastic.


You don't get it, do you?

The only people who want mining to be more fun are people who have never done it.

Making mining more viable or fun is not going to stop bored Goons suicide ganking anything that moves or doesn't move, as the case may be.


Balls, I have mined in hi sec, low sec and even 0.0, in solo and in corp ops, with and without Orcas and Rorqual.

If mining was not so badly implemented to be undistinguishable from botting then it would attract less bots and would have dynamics that make people not alt tab to do something else.

If mining mechanics were not so obsolete then we'd have mechanisms for active protection. In low sec and 0.0 we'd have half a dozen guys camping the gates and eventually warning if something passed thru (they were corp ops). There's nothing like that in hi sec. What can a non bot miner do in hi sec, to avoid getting killed? The current mechanics certainly don't entice active piloting, the game tries to expand in cooperative gameplay (see incursions) and is PvP centered. What PvP (besides being popped) and cooperative gameplay is available to a miner beyond getting buffed by an Orca?

Only by having it brought under the spotlight could make CCP finally create a decent patch aimed at the old infrastructures.

Trading is in the same situation (but offtopic): bots, nauseating interface, tons-a-clicks-to-do-anything (hey invention too!), 1970 alike graphs and so on.

But since these features are not about ships pew pew they are left to rot forever. Until something like this happens. Maybe.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-02-15 13:20:27 UTC
Razzor Death wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:
So you're part of the growing group of vigilantes and being a vigilante makes you feel special


I have no idea what you're talking about but it sounded pretty gay



Well, I don't actually know any gay people so I have no idea what they sounds like, in typed text. My guess is the same as anyone else.


Don't confuse considering others with being gay, that would not be exclusive to being gay.


Maybe you should consider others sometimes, or is that asking too much, or does the macho bs get in the way?
Ohanka
#35 - 2012-02-15 13:23:44 UTC
i've said it before and i'll say it again

Hulkageddon just damages the real miners, does nothing to the botter scum.

North Korea is Best Korea
Razzor Death
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-02-15 13:32:48 UTC
Sasha Azala wrote:
Razzor Death wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:
So you're part of the growing group of vigilantes and being a vigilante makes you feel special


I have no idea what you're talking about but it sounded pretty gay



Well, I don't actually know any gay people so I have no idea what they sounds like, in typed text. My guess is the same as anyone else.


Don't confuse considering others with being gay, that would not be exclusive to being gay.


Maybe you should consider others sometimes, or is that asking too much, or does the macho bs get in the way?


Don't consider others ? the mighty Goonswarm Federation of the people is working tirelessly in the **** hole that is High Sec trying to make it a better place for man and woman and you demonise us ? in 5 days one single Corp has inflicted a fully fit titans worth of destruction against the hordes of EULA breakers.

What have you done for the people lately ? other than force people on eveo to have to read through your terrible posts of pointless drivel.

Vote Mittani for CSM, making the game a better place one less bot at a time.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#37 - 2012-02-15 13:37:12 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
If mining mechanics were not so obsolete then we'd have mechanisms for active protection.


How do you actively protect anything in hisec?

No amount of remote repping can contend with the alpha of a few Tornadoes. You can't shoot first without losing your ship. You can't stop the other guy from shooting without losing your ship. The best you can do in hisec, to protect your highly valuable paper thin sessile spacecraft is to spam D-scan and warp out of the belt when you see non-mining ships on scan. Even paying that much attention to the game won't protect you from stealth bombers.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Razzor Death
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-02-15 13:41:28 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
If mining mechanics were not so obsolete then we'd have mechanisms for active protection.


How do you actively protect anything in hisec?

No amount of remote repping can contend with the alpha of a few Tornadoes. You can't shoot first without losing your ship. You can't stop the other guy from shooting without losing your ship. The best you can do in hisec, to protect your highly valuable paper thin sessile spacecraft is to spam D-scan and warp out of the belt when you see non-mining ships on scan. Even paying that much attention to the game won't protect you from stealth bombers.



hey hey hey now, are you suggesting that people can mine in saftey is they play the game ?
Raneru
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#39 - 2012-02-15 13:45:25 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
If mining mechanics were not so obsolete then we'd have mechanisms for active protection.


How do you actively protect anything in hisec?

No amount of remote repping can contend with the alpha of a few Tornadoes. You can't shoot first without losing your ship. You can't stop the other guy from shooting without losing your ship. The best you can do in hisec, to protect your highly valuable paper thin sessile spacecraft is to spam D-scan and warp out of the belt when you see non-mining ships on scan. Even paying that much attention to the game won't protect you from stealth bombers.


You could try mining gravimetric sites, that would offer a higher degree of safety. Not sure if any grav sites have ice though.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#40 - 2012-02-15 13:47:39 UTC
Razzor Death wrote:
...
hey hey hey now, are you suggesting that people can mine in saftey is they play the game ?


D-scan doesn't always save you in high sec. It can be filled with a lot of entries, missions can be run near belts or grav sites, so forth and so on.

Also, sitting there, pressing a button over and over again is the most demented way of expecting someone to "play" a game. Roll

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.