EVE General Discussion

Akrei, you solution though essentially is asking titans to be totally ineffective against subcaps. That is analogous to the extinction of a predator. I think this is what Reilly is trying to point out. Removing Titans as a predator will only create an overpopulation of you as current prey and leave you to quickly evolve into an overpopulation of predator to take the titans place.

Neither strategy should have the upperhand. Currently the titan blob can be dropped to end the subcap fight if it is going badly for team tech. You don't like that. But it would not be any better if team tech's titan blob was totally neutered.

Reilly's something new to **** titans does not need to create new ecological problems (to continue the metaphor) if done right. The new ewar capital could be crafted to require lots of new skills that aren't necessarilly based on existing capital skills (such would only benefit team tech anyway). If based on an extension of the recon tree or whatever else subcap it would be accessible to alliances of all sizes, and could be used by all to even out the supercap imbalance. While the ewar could be made as ineffective v subcaps these ships could be given some defense to subcaps and thus is not rendering them wholly vulnerable against all subcaps but definitely making them dependant on assistance from other ship classes.

Some other possibly good suggestions from this thread are the sig resolution nerf to capital weapons. Making siege necessary to restore some measure of sig resoution on the x-large guns for both ship classes that use them, titans and dreads (and gaining some capital ewar resistance as well). Maybe decreases in the jump distance of supercaps again to make collection and projection of the titan blob more of a headache. Reilly's idea of capital only affecting ewar ships is a good addition which could be added along with the retooling approaches earlier in this paragraph. Both solution A and solution B can be used, they are not an either/or.

There was one post itt about the new ewar being simply extension of the existing subcap ewar. This however, would be a mistake. It would simply set up a situation of ecm superiority and everyone would be training the new caldari capital ecm ships whatever it was called.

Have to say, this is a good thread, OP, and discussion by pretty much all involved and seems to have not attracted the simplistic trolls, yet.

It's not obsolescence I'm asking for, though. Titans would still maintain superiority over capitals, and would be a presence that has to be dealt with in some way, as a Titan heavy fleet can just roam around reinforcing structures at will otherwise. They still would have extreme strategic value.

All I'm suggesting is shifting the "subcap murderer" role down to carriers, so the fight is two-sided as opposed to one-sided. No one likes to be murdered without any chance of fighting back, and players like me don't like to murder without any real fight to get the blood pumping. Titans would be far from obsolete, IMO, through my suggestions. What would become obsolete is the "IWIN Drop".

So what would stop me from fielding 40 drone enhanced subcapital owning carriers, supported by another 40 triage carriers? And how would that differ from todays titan blob?

Any chance someone could give a quick list of changes made to titans over the years in order to "ballance" them out ?
They are afterall 8 years old.

Quite a long time to get a ship in line with the overall gameplay dont you think ?

That could work - at least in isolation from other capitals. But alpha would pretty much be the lone subcap counter, otherwise there is the issue of cycling triage/offensive mods and cyclerepping. I'm not happy with that. I think we need more tools and more complexity.

What I really dont like with todays capital battelefiled is the one-dimensional tank vs dps aspect of it. There are no Soft-kill options, there is no area denial options and it frankly restricts capital tactics to rather mundane considerations once they jump in.

Besides, it would be rather easy to come up with multiple niche roles for diffrent classes of capital ships (unlike subcaps), expanding the game, shaking up old pre-conceptions and of course give the vets new exiting stuff to train for.

under optimal conditions, it can happen. when said carriers are popping battleships left and right, things would be going quite differently. not to mention the fact that a carrier can engage a fleet from off grid.

You sir, are awesome.

Thank you for this post.

I wholeheartedly agree with this point of view, with the exception perhaps of that XL gun BS platform abomination.

I would perhaps also like to add we should consider the notion of preventing super capitals from targeting sub caps and vice versa, while boosting our mid range capital hulls to be both effective and vulnerable against both sub caps and supers.

t2 capital EWAR dreads that could warpscram, web, jam, damp / [insert your poison here] supers and capitals with ease would be a welcome addition. Let sub capital ewar effect only sub caps and caps. Let capital ewar lock down big ships.

Introduce some anti-sub capital weapons for capital ships and t2 capital ships and we should start to see light at the end of the tunnel.

Correct.
That's why your idea is wrong. It is not titans that need to be nerfed, but their numbers.

Less dps than a moros and about the same as a revelation. But nice try.