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Titans Nerf :) must see this :)
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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#81 - 2012-02-14 00:00:27 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

You do realise that all of the powers you listed are fully capable of just as large a blob and have been doing so for a few months now right?


No baltec. Because if the last few months had been blob vs blob, we wouldnt have this dicsussion would we?

After the internal civil war within DRF and WN essentially knocked out of the game at least for the time beeing, Deklein enjoys numerical superiority. The key to maintaining this superiority is however to maintain pilot morale which essentially means maintaining some sense of progress. And right now, you meet titans at an increasing rate. Which is precisely why these threads pops up on the foums at an equally increasing rate.


I have seen it. They are all capable of such fleets, we fought one for 3 hours on friday before they dumped the titan blob on us when we started to win which endend the fight almost instantly.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#82 - 2012-02-14 00:03:27 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Xolve wrote:

Plain and simple, SuperCaps shouldn't be able to hit Sub-Capitals, with any success.


I know this guy that loves to roam in lowsec in his HAC, but he is ******* annoyed when ge get dropped by multiple battlehsips. He once told me that a big ass gun on a battleship shouldnt be able to hit a lowly cruiser.

Basically, This game has only 4 gun classes. XL for capitals (including titans), L for battleships, M for BC/Cruisers and S for destroyers and frigates.

So, if we take this proposal and implement it in the physics engine, there should really be no downward efficiency between classes. Or do you mean it should only affect XL guns because you happen to not fly a capital?

Yeah thats a retorical question.


20 HAC would kill those battleships, the same cannot be said of titans
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#83 - 2012-02-14 00:06:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Reilly Duvolle
baltec1 wrote:


I have seen it. They are all capable of such fleets, we fought one for 3 hours on friday before they dumped the titan blob on us when we started to win which endend the fight almost instantly.



Now Now. You cant really blame the game for the goon FC not having the balls to respond in kind. Because he could have, the blob wasnt that large. Or perhaps the tech moon wasnt deemed strategically important enough to risk your titans? Which of course is fair enough.

Thats not a design problem though.
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#84 - 2012-02-14 00:07:58 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


20 HAC would kill those battleships, the same cannot be said of titans


Hm you say 20 battleships wouldnt kill a Titan?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#85 - 2012-02-14 00:11:55 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


I have seen it. They are all capable of such fleets, we fought one for 3 hours on friday before they dumped the titan blob on us when we started to win which endend the fight almost instantly.



Now Now. You cant really blame the game for the goon FC not having the balls to respond in kind. Because he could have, the blob wasnt that large. Or perhaps the tech moon wasnt deemed strategically important enough to risk your titans? Whic of course is fair enough.

Thats not a design problem though.


Yes, lets jump our titan fleet into the single largest collection of titans over a tech moon and get them all killedRoll


Or we could engage them as we did, save the moon, and simply wait for the cyno jammers to come onlinewhich will end this war.
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#86 - 2012-02-14 00:17:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Reilly Duvolle
baltec1 wrote:


Yes, lets jump our titan fleet into the single largest collection of titans over a tech moon and get them all killedRoll


Exactly. There is a strategic imbalance between you and your enemies. You percive that you cannot do something about it directly, so you resort to the indirect approach and lobby for their removal or gutting as combat ships on the forums. This will of course also affect your own titans, but since you have less of them, it will hit your enemies harder.

Any proposal that adress the problem of titan blob in any other way that removal or nerfing of titans gets rejected, because your true agenda isnt really game design after all, its in-game power.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#87 - 2012-02-14 00:21:16 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Yes, lets jump our titan fleet into the single largest collection of titans over a tech moon and get them all killedRoll


Exactly. There is a strategic imbalance between you and your enemies. You percive that you cannot do something about it directly, so you resort to the indirect approach and lobby for their removal or gutting as combat ships on the forums. This will of course also affect your own titans, but since you have less of them, it will hit your enemies harder.

Any proposal that adress the problem of titan blob in any other way that removal or nerfing of titans gets rejected, because your true agenda isnt really game design after all, its in-game power.


Tell me, how would anyone else with even fewer resources than goons fight them?
ViRUS Pottage
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#88 - 2012-02-14 00:23:08 UTC
It's too late to properly balance titans and supers. At this point they're either overpowered or underpowered. Fact is, they are too readily available. The prices of titans and supers should be tripled at least, since 20b isn't much nowadays, and 80b isn't much to a semi capable alliance.

Titans should be absolute rapefests, however with the current amount of them they're being used in way too large numbers.
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#89 - 2012-02-14 00:23:36 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


Tell me, how would anyone else with even fewer resources than goons fight them?


You are avoiding the question again. Why do you reject any other solution to the problem of the titan blob than nerfing/gutting of titans as combat ships?
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#90 - 2012-02-14 00:24:38 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
So, if we take this proposal and implement it in the physics engine, there should really be no downward efficiency between classes. Or do you mean it should only affect XL guns because you happen to not fly a capital?

Yeah thats a retorical question.


Well your rhetoric is wrong.

I'm not against Titans being the be-all-end-all answer to Capital Ship destruction, but if you honestly think 20 battleships can pose a threat to a Titan by themselves before the Titan can kill them, your ******* ******** (neccessary emphasis applied).

This isn't a whine or *****, its just statistically stupid that a single ship class can utterly decimate any opposition regardless of ship size. Even the people that abuse Titans will admit its over-powered. I'm also not arguing against the idea of ships exploding, stuff blowing up is good; I am however against risk-free PvP and thats exactly what a Titan blob is...
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#91 - 2012-02-14 00:27:33 UTC
Xolve wrote:

I'm not against Titans being the be-all-end-all answer to Capital Ship destruction, but if you honestly think 20 battleships can pose a threat to a Titan by themselves before the Titan can kill them, your ******* ******** (neccessary emphasis applied).


Tell that to PLLol
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#92 - 2012-02-14 00:30:05 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Tell me, how would anyone else with even fewer resources than goons fight them?


You are avoiding the question again. Why do you reject any other solution to the problem of the titan blob than nerfing/gutting of titans as combat ships?


No it is you.

I have given ample reasons as to why titans raping everything is bad for EVE. New capitals are not the answer because smaller alliances would still be at an impassable barrier to 0.0. The only answer is to nerf the titans themselves and chane their roll into a fleet flagship roll. As was intended.

Now answer me, how does a body with fewer resources than goons combat titan blobs?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-02-14 00:30:16 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Xolve wrote:

I'm not against Titans being the be-all-end-all answer to Capital Ship destruction, but if you honestly think 20 battleships can pose a threat to a Titan by themselves before the Titan can kill them, your ******* ******** (neccessary emphasis applied).


Tell that to PLLol


A few dozen battleships will absolutely wipe the floor with a single titan, full stop. Try doing that with 20 other titans on the field and the situation suddenly changes.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Surge Roth
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2012-02-14 00:31:48 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

This benefits everyone.

LOL. No Baltec it doesnt. Specifically it doesn't benefit your old arch enemies Raiden, it doesnt benefit most drone russian alliances and it certainly does not benefit PL. What does these alliances have in common? Oh yes. They are your enemies in-game right now.



Shock horror, the biggest abusers of the curret problem who utterly rely upon them would suffer the most. God forbid they have to actually use their heads and come up with a better tactic than "dump the titans on them".

If the alliances you listed should fall because titans got their god mode removed then it would be because they were not worthy of holding their space and out manovered by smarter people using better tactics.


Lol, or something awful would just dump more people into a system than they have in a single fight. Not using tatics at all.
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#95 - 2012-02-14 00:33:43 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Xolve wrote:

I'm not against Titans being the be-all-end-all answer to Capital Ship destruction, but if you honestly think 20 battleships can pose a threat to a Titan by themselves before the Titan can kill them, your ******* ******** (neccessary emphasis applied).


Tell that to PLLol


They already admit to abusing the power of Super Caps to engage in Risk Free PvP whenever possible.
Surge Roth
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2012-02-14 00:34:34 UTC
Andski wrote:
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Xolve wrote:

I'm not against Titans being the be-all-end-all answer to Capital Ship destruction, but if you honestly think 20 battleships can pose a threat to a Titan by themselves before the Titan can kill them, your ******* ******** (neccessary emphasis applied).


Tell that to PLLol


A few dozen battleships will absolutely wipe the floor with a single titan, full stop. Try doing that with 20 other titans on the field and the situation suddenly changes.


Seems like it's working as intended to me. You gang bang one flag ship. with a few dozen battleships. When 20 more appear and you have the same number... well, you're not suppose to win Smile
sakurako
State War Academy
Caldari State
#97 - 2012-02-14 00:35:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Yes, lets jump our titan fleet into the single largest collection of titans over a tech moon and get them all killedRoll


Exactly. There is a strategic imbalance between you and your enemies. You percive that you cannot do something about it directly, so you resort to the indirect approach and lobby for their removal or gutting as combat ships on the forums. This will of course also affect your own titans, but since you have less of them, it will hit your enemies harder.

Any proposal that adress the problem of titan blob in any other way that removal or nerfing of titans gets rejected, because your true agenda isnt really game design after all, its in-game power.


Tell me, how would anyone else with even fewer resources than goons fight them?


stop trying to make goon out to be the heros here.

goons we have tech moons and yet we fight in drakes.

the only reason goons want titans nerfed is so that they can conroll all of null, state who can live where and who they can fight.

goons are becoming the bigest problem to this game i can't wait for an eve with out goons.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#98 - 2012-02-14 00:36:01 UTC
Surge Roth wrote:


Lol, or something awful would just dump more people into a system than they have in a single fight. Not using tatics at all.


The NC had much larger fleets and still the fell.
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#99 - 2012-02-14 00:36:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Tell me, how would anyone else with even fewer resources than goons fight them?


You are avoiding the question again. Why do you reject any other solution to the problem of the titan blob than nerfing/gutting of titans as combat ships?


No it is you.

I have given ample reasons as to why titans raping everything is bad for EVE. New capitals are not the answer because smaller alliances would still be at an impassable barrier to 0.0. The only answer is to nerf the titans themselves and chane their roll into a fleet flagship roll. As was intended.

Now answer me, how does a body with fewer resources than goons combat titan blobs?


Nobody. I think I have said 2 or 3 times in this thread allready that the titans used en-mass is a problem. What we disagree on is the solution.

Your "enable small alliances to conquer nullsec" argument is pretty cute comming from a goon. The goons have played this power game with skill for the last 6 years. Im sure you havent suddenly developed an acute considreation for the small unproven highsec alliance wanting to conquer null on its own lol. So forgive me once more when I call bullshit.
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#100 - 2012-02-14 00:37:41 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Surge Roth wrote:


Lol, or something awful would just dump more people into a system than they have in a single fight. Not using tatics at all.


The NC had much larger fleets and still the fell.


they didnt fail because the blob failed mind you. I was there.