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PI is being wierd to me
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Viktoria Annacense
C.A.R.E.
B.E.A.R.S.
#1 - 2012-02-12 17:33:37 UTC
I understand resources moving, but this part is boggling me
I'll have my extractor set up, it'll say I can harvest base metals at 400,000 total and 8,000 per hour
I accept, I go back into survey, and instead of being the same number it's more like 200,000 and 4,000 per hour. I don't get it.
o.O
Velicitia
XS Tech
#2 - 2012-02-12 17:40:41 UTC
Better skills may help you (assuming you're not at 4/4 or better with [Advanced] Planetology)

before you install the job, it's just an estimate of what you think you can pull in. After you accept the change, it's what you really can pull in.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Viktoria Annacense
C.A.R.E.
B.E.A.R.S.
#3 - 2012-02-12 17:43:33 UTC
For that though I've heard of 10% differences, but 50% seems a bit excessive.
Also, this is only the case on PI i've had running for a while, all my newer lower skill PI runs far better with less of that.
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#4 - 2012-02-12 17:54:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Professor Alphane
Apparently it is to do with your survey skills.

The initial 'estimate' is based on what your skills can see

The true value is based on what is actually there.

Also if I remeber correctly this effect will be more prevelant on certain sized planets (cant' remember if it's large or small that are more affected of the top of my head) because of the way the nodal system works ie all palnets have the same number of nodes on smaller ones they are more compact.

Thinking about it it might well be smaller planets that are more affected as you 'misinterperat' more nodes so the diffrence in final value is bigger.

/edit the reason your older planet may have bigger diffrences is because of depletion that your survey skills aren't refined enough to pick up.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-02-12 18:46:19 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:

Thinking about it it might well be smaller planets that are more affected as you 'misinterperat' more nodes so the diffrence in final value is bigger.


I can confirm this. Poor skills can result in high variability of the estimates in small planets.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#6 - 2012-02-12 19:37:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
hrrrrrrrrUMPPHHHHH. This has not a THING to do with Skills.



The REAL reason for this is initially you are seeing the total cumulative extraction amount over the entire time period selected, so it can indeed say 12,000 per hour.

After activation, you are seeing the amount pulled in the FIRST tiny 15 minute 'slice' of the Graph in the Survey Window which may be as low as say 3,000.

Check the graph a few hours later during a graph peak, and it will be extracting, oh say, 18,000 that 15 minute segment.

That is why there are peaks and valleys in that graph. It does NOT pull a steady constant amount over the day, or whatever total length of time is selected.


I figured this out a year ago...........................out of pure obviousness, for whatever that's worth......or implies...........

But if it says 12,000 per hour for the period of time...this is indeed what you will get at the end of the cycle. NEVER fails.

What the above irrelevant posts are referring to is the number of visible Survey Lines (Balger Lines I believe they are called in geodetic surveys) which are indeed increased by Skills. but that has to do with getting more efficient extraction spots, and have nada to do with amount extracted.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Velicitia
XS Tech
#7 - 2012-02-12 19:48:06 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

The REAL reason for this is initially you are seeing the total cumulative extraction amount over the entire time period selected, so it can indeed say 12,000 per hour.

After activation, you are seeing the amount pulled in the FIRST tiny 15 minute 'slice' of the Graph in the Survey Window which may be as low as say 3,000.



that's all well and good ... but that's no the problem that the OP is having...

Viktoria Annacense wrote:

it'll say I can harvest base metals at 400,000 total and 8,000 per hour
I accept, I go back into survey, and instead of being the same number it's more like 200,000 and 4,000 per hour.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#8 - 2012-02-12 19:49:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Velicitia wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

The REAL reason for this is initially you are seeing the total cumulative extraction amount over the entire time period selected, so it can indeed say 12,000 per hour.

After activation, you are seeing the amount pulled in the FIRST tiny 15 minute 'slice' of the Graph in the Survey Window which may be as low as say 3,000.



that's all well and good ... but that's no the problem that the OP is having...

Viktoria Annacense wrote:

it'll say I can harvest base metals at 400,000 total and 8,000 per hour
I accept, I go back into survey, and instead of being the same number it's more like 200,000 and 4,000 per hour.



That number does 'shrink' when there is a valley at the start position. It can be larger upon starting, if it's a peak. OP just has not noticed yet as a lesser amount is more 'alarming'.

He accepts then goes to check...and I see the same thing EVERY TIME too. In fact, it is next to impossible for that number to be the same EVER.

So nope....I ain't wrong. Also, let the OP determine if I'm on the wrong track....you come up with your own better theory. You contributed nothing.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-02-12 20:00:46 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Better skills may help you (assuming you're not at 4/4 or better with [Advanced] Planetology)

before you install the job, it's just an estimate of what you think you can pull in. After you accept the change, it's what you really can pull in.


Do you get anything for being at 5/5? I was thinking of maxing those skills, not so much for extra income as to be able to tell corpmates exactly where the isk is.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#10 - 2012-02-12 20:07:40 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Better skills may help you (assuming you're not at 4/4 or better with [Advanced] Planetology)

before you install the job, it's just an estimate of what you think you can pull in. After you accept the change, it's what you really can pull in.


Do you get anything for being at 5/5? I was thinking of maxing those skills, not so much for extra income as to be able to tell corpmates exactly where the isk is.


Currently, I'm at 4/4 and get "good enough" results to work with. 5/5 gives you the lowest deviance between "where you think the hot spot is" and "where the hotspot really is". Whether or not the training time is worth it is something you have to answer for yourself...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#11 - 2012-02-12 20:12:10 UTC
Yes as above 4/4 myself. Works OK for me

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#12 - 2012-02-12 20:19:10 UTC
Just been ingame to test other posters asserstions that it's cycle based.

It appears not to be true, the reading you see on the right hand side of your readout is an average over total extraction.

To read the numbers for an individual cycle you mouse over it's column in the graph, should you do this with your first cycle it will show a number significantly higher than your average.

I would suggest therefore you have misinterpretd the data and are suffering the usual skill problem.

Note even at 4/4 my projected and actual average/entire extraction varies some 5-10%

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#13 - 2012-02-12 20:34:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Professor Alphane wrote:
Just been ingame to test other posters asserstions that it's cycle based.

It appears not to be true, the reading you see on the right hand side of your readout is an average over total extraction.

To read the numbers for an individual cycle you mouse over it's column in the graph, should you do this with your first cycle it will show a number significantly higher than your average.

I would suggest therefore you have misinterpretd the data and are suffering the usual skill problem.

Note even at 4/4 my projected and actual average/entire extraction varies some 5-10%


Correct...except for this being A SKILL ISSUE (not), and that first column can be a Peak and HIGHER, not just lower as well. Rarely, but it can be the SAME by accident.

Are the previous posters even AWARE that those bars making up the graph are 15 minute segments of time ????Shocked And if not, then they actually try to post advice ??? Roll

Sigh.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Velicitia
XS Tech
#14 - 2012-02-12 20:52:35 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:
Just been ingame to test other posters asserstions that it's cycle based.

It appears not to be true, the reading you see on the right hand side of your readout is an average over total extraction.

To read the numbers for an individual cycle you mouse over it's column in the graph, should you do this with your first cycle it will show a number significantly higher than your average.

I would suggest therefore you have misinterpretd the data and are suffering the usual skill problem.

Note even at 4/4 my projected and actual average/entire extraction varies some 5-10%


Correct...except for this being A SKILL ISSUE (not), and that first column can be a Peak and HIGHER, not just lower as well. Rarely, but it can be the SAME by accident.

Are the previous posters even AWARE that those bars making up the graph are 15 minute segments of time ????Shocked And if not, then they actually try to post advice ??? Roll

Sigh.

We're talking about two different things here bud.

Yeah, the graph will show you what you're dragging in at a specific time point. The OP is talking about the averaged numbers in the lower left that shows the overall P0 you'll get and the P0 per hour, if you allowed the installed job to run to completion.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#15 - 2012-02-12 21:08:50 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


Are the previous posters even AWARE that those bars making up the graph are 15 minute segments of time ????Shocked And if not, then they actually try to post advice ??? Roll




Well let me see several points here.

We must be talking at crossed purposes as my post specifically refutes your assement of the situation and I can confirm the other posters advice is correct.

Also if you think to be a smart *** at least try and get it right first or it'll be embarissing

The columns on the graph represent varying lengths of time depending on your total extraction length anything from 15 minutes to 4 hours. So basically once again you are wrong, sorry.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Viktoria Annacense
C.A.R.E.
B.E.A.R.S.
#16 - 2012-02-12 22:19:36 UTC
I do realize the 15 min slice bit, but I was looking only at the amount per hour and total amounts that appear after clicking survey.

Vik has 4/4 but not all my characters do, so I'm going to have to keep a bit of an eye on this for the next few days.

Thanks for the posts, they have helped. 8)
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#17 - 2012-02-12 22:36:56 UTC
Viktoria Annacense wrote:


Vik has 4/4 but not all my characters do, so I'm going to have to keep a bit of an eye on this for the next few days.

Thanks for the posts, they have helped. 8)



Frankly that does seem odd that a 4/4 you should suffer a 50% drop from what is surveyed. As I say my 'error' factor is around 5-10%.


[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-02-12 23:33:56 UTC
Wait untill you need storage facility, it's just an awesome joke:

Starts more or less like this, you bring the P2/P3 stuff you've already payed huge tax amounts to your favourite planet full of factories so you transform all that in nice high tech PI you will get some isk out of it (you'd be beter rating thx to the uber tax thou)

Now you want to put all that stuff in your storage hangars but here's the thing: you can't do it directly from the customs so you have to import to the spaceport (10K m3) then transfer to the storage hangar (12K m3)

This is the point where it becomes funny has hell, so you fill your customs again with 12Km3 of stuff to transform in your dedicated factories planet but now you're stuck becaue you have an idiot CD of 2 hours between tranferts from your stupid space port to the second storage hangar.

This is great, absolutely awesome, the best joke for this new year Lol

CCP...start trying stuff before implement it X
Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
#19 - 2012-02-13 00:59:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Invictra Atreides
Tanya Powers wrote:
Wait untill you need storage facility, it's just an awesome joke:

Starts more or less like this, you bring the P2/P3 stuff you've already payed huge tax amounts to your favourite planet full of factories so you transform all that in nice high tech PI you will get some isk out of it (you'd be beter rating thx to the uber tax thou)

Now you want to put all that stuff in your storage hangars but here's the thing: you can't do it directly from the customs so you have to import to the spaceport (10K m3) then transfer to the storage hangar (12K m3)

This is the point where it becomes funny has hell, so you fill your customs again with 12Km3 of stuff to transform in your dedicated factories planet but now you're stuck becaue you have an idiot CD of 2 hours between tranferts from your stupid space port to the second storage hangar.

This is great, absolutely awesome, the best joke for this new year Lol

CCP...start trying stuff before implement it X
And then you upgrade the transportation link between the LP and storage to lvl 5 and the wait time shrinks to 5 min. Big smile

@Krixtal Icefluxor your comments about PI always make me laugh Roll

Blog | Tutorials | Youtube "I don’t know everything, I just know what I know."
Steven Fonulique
SF Incorporated
#20 - 2012-02-13 10:25:20 UTC
Invictra Atreides wrote:
And then you upgrade the transportation link between the LP and storage to lvl 5 and the wait time shrinks to 5 min. Big smile


Good to know, thanks Big smile
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