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Can Miners adapt? - A personal observation

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Shazzam Vokanavom
Doomheim
#41 - 2012-02-13 10:45:22 UTC
Jori McKie wrote:
Draw your own conclusions.


It only takes 2 - 3 destroyers to take out a Mack at an assest loss ratio of around 10:1

Plex in an afternoon by attacking soft targets.

Ganking was favoured in Crucible due to dessie improvements and new alpha BC's cheaper than BS.

OP might be trying to bait Orca's?

Ganking of soft targets needs an effective bounty hunter system in order to afford an effective responce to criminal acts and give some credance to consideration of "adaption" for the ganker.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#42 - 2012-02-13 15:32:55 UTC
Jori McKie wrote:
. Lasting effect i would say.


What you don't know is that they probably moved somewhere else. Net effect - you sitting there wasting your time thinking you had a major victory.

It's like the AFK cloakers we get out here in drone space. They keep bragging about all the economic damage they are doing yet somehow the industry index levels don't seem to be dropping at all... and when one does, they fail to notice all those new industry 1 and 2 systems that pop up.

But to each their own. If thinking you have forced several people offline is fun for you - then by all means go ahead.
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2012-02-13 15:45:13 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Jori McKie wrote:
. Lasting effect i would say.


What you don't know is that they probably moved somewhere else. Net effect - you sitting there wasting your time thinking you had a major victory.

It's like the AFK cloakers we get out here in drone space. They keep bragging about all the economic damage they are doing yet somehow the industry index levels don't seem to be dropping at all... and when one does, they fail to notice all those new industry 1 and 2 systems that pop up.

But to each their own. If thinking you have forced several people offline is fun for you - then by all means go ahead.


Oh dear.......
I don't care at all who and how many miners are in that system or not or elsewhere when i'm offline and i definitly not let my alt idle there. If i forced some bots to move or log out when i log in, fine and if not, fine either.

I'm not on a hunting, it just happens i ganked some Macks and wrote about the effects.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#44 - 2012-02-13 15:57:17 UTC
Op... I love you corp name. Made me chuckle.


Also interesting test.

One I would like to do is see what the smallest ship that could gank a Hulk solo would be in both a .5 and a 1.0 (both ends of the Concord spectrum).
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#45 - 2012-02-13 17:26:03 UTC
Interesting.

Alas, the boost you get from 1 orca with a ganglink for shields or armor or w/e, isn't enough to save you against the 5 or more destroyers that pounce on you.

If barges were boosted to have the same ehp as a BS without a tank, then I would honesty just shake my head in shame at anybody who moaned about being jihad ganked in their hulks....

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-02-13 22:09:12 UTC
I have taken to checking ice belts when im around them, mack wrecks give nice intact armor plates sometimes 
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Borun Tal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2012-02-13 22:27:58 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Tanking a mack is an exercise of futility.

Just put the loss of some ships per year in the balance sheet as "operating costs" and be done with it.


This. +1. Cost of doing business, and keep on truckin'.
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#48 - 2012-02-13 22:48:38 UTC
Mike712 wrote:
If you have an orca/hauling alt, I really don't understand why anyone wold mine in a hulk.

[Rokh, Mining Rokh]
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Co-Processor II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Survey Scanner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II

Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II

Large Drone Mining Augmentor II
Large Cargohold Optimization I
Large Cargohold Optimization I


Mining Drone II x5


That does pretty much the same m^3 as a hulk, but would take 7 or more nadoes to gank, why do people use hulks...seriously?


Because a hulk gets 900m3 more yeild per minute and anyone using Dcan and an orca wont get ganked. Its not like you can't just wait for the first shot and then dock your ship and warp off in your pod.....Shocked.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#49 - 2012-02-14 01:21:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Jori McKie wrote:
Here is the thing,
- Ice mining is maybe the worst profession in EVE ISK/h wise.
- It's kinda boring and more of a "passive" thing you do in between
- Ice miners have no other option as Mack, Hulk and for some few Orca. Many seems to be aware what risk they are taking.

EVE is evolution in fast forward, especially in PvP you have to adapt. If you have bad fits you are killed more often, if you have a bad tactic you are killed more often, either you adapt/learn or you will be killed more often simple as that.
The same rule applies to ice miners, in bad fits you are ganked more often.


Not exactly true. When the tank is toilet paper anyway, giving out a crappy T1 invuln field entices less ganking than a some stupidly expensive setups I have seen around (that were originally copied from Halada's mining guide, without noticing he gave fittings suited for 0.0 rats not for hi sec gimpy rats Blink )


Jori McKie wrote:

Many seems to be aware what risk they are taking.


Oh they are. If you lose a crappy fit mack and salvage it you have lost about 70-80M. This is about 14-16 hours worth of mining in the worst conditions to pay it back.



Jori McKie wrote:

This is what i don't get, although many ice miners seems to be aware of the risk there is no action. If i'm aware i'm doing a risk profession in EVE with less rewards i would try to avoid any unnecessary losses. There are 2 standard fits for Macks, one with mining upgrades in low slots and only 7k EHP, the other with cargo expander and about 13k tank (boosted up to 18k). The first one will give you more yield per min but it has a bigger risk, the second one is more safe, less yield with a little less risk. A human has two options, mine "active" with more yield and react to any threat or be more "passive" with the second one.
The Hulk or Orca is an upgrade to more safety but why not more ice miners socialize and build/join a mining corp setup mining ops with an Orca as mining booster and a dedicated Tengu shield booster (As ice belts are stationary, buy/build a POS in that system and the boosters are 100% safe, even wardecs won't bother you because of the recent policy changes CCP made)

You never will be 100% safe from ganking but with the described setup you can rule out the dumb gankers and force them to get more numbers, but getting more numbers is effort. You see? My conlcusion from my personal experience is that highsec and the false assumption it's safe let you stop thinking or is infested by bots otherwise i can't explain so many bad fits i saw on Macks.


1) Given the mining ship losses are low enough, sacrificing efficiency costs more than having a ship popped every now and then. There are some basic "rules" (i.e. don't mine during Hulkageddon / Goon people in system), don't mine with orange pilots in belts with gank ships etc. that save the day 95% of the time.

2) Ice miners don't socialize because they are not there to do that. They are socializing in RL / watching TV / cutting grass / playing another game. Otherwise they would not do an AFK, low income profession.

3) You don't get the ganker philosophy. They are enterprising individuals who get a feeling of achievement at popping a thougher "adversary", like a game of cat and mice. There are very few who are really "in" for the ISK.

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