These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Does favoritism exist?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ai Shun
#41 - 2012-02-13 02:00:06 UTC
I find myself strangely at ease with the idea of favouritism in EVE Online; to a point. Allow me to explain, using Gogela's example. If, for example, I was engaged in RMT and were caught doing so I would expect a full ban immediately. This would seem fair to me, because, well. I broke the rules and in terms of my value to EVE Online I'm just another $15.

If the same happened to the Mittani or to Chribba or to another of the EVE celebrities I'd expect them to receive a warning, a wallet hit and closer scrutiny in the future. Because, the cost of banning them is far larger than just another $15. They are the types of players who devote a significant amount of their personal time and real resources to the game. In a way they are like mini CCP employees. So while I wouldn't expect them to get off scot-free; I would expect the penalties against them to be lower because they are more valuable to the game overall.

By that token, of course, I expect the odds of them being involved in something dodgy is also commensurately lower because of the higher level of scrutiny they automatically have. Or maybe that's just a day-dream Lol
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#42 - 2012-02-13 02:51:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
Ai Shun wrote:
I find myself strangely at ease with the idea of favouritism in EVE Online; to a point. Allow me to explain, using Gogela's example. If, for example, I was engaged in RMT and were caught doing so I would expect a full ban immediately. This would seem fair to me, because, well. I broke the rules and in terms of my value to EVE Online I'm just another $15.

If the same happened to the Mittani or to Chribba or to another of the EVE celebrities I'd expect them to receive a warning, a wallet hit and closer scrutiny in the future. Because, the cost of banning them is far larger than just another $15. They are the types of players who devote a significant amount of their personal time and real resources to the game. In a way they are like mini CCP employees. So while I wouldn't expect them to get off scot-free; I would expect the penalties against them to be lower because they are more valuable to the game overall.

By that token, of course, I expect the odds of them being involved in something dodgy is also commensurately lower because of the higher level of scrutiny they automatically have. Or maybe that's just a day-dream Lol


See... I disagree with this. In particular the way you are monetizing your "value" vs someone better known is wrong within the context of the policy. If it could be said for the sake of argument that your character, Ai Shun, is worth 129 bucks a year and Mittani is worth say 3 grand a year (again, just speaking hypothetically here) it wouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things because even with Mittens significantly higher subscription premiums they are a drop in the bucket for CCP in terms of total revenue or operating budget. The quality of the game play is the draw for all of these subscriptions. If it was understood that CCP would arbitrarily pull the plug on your accounts on a whim, or that the field of play would be actively tilted by CCP away from a newcomer, this game would be as worthless as any other MMO that pops up and goes away in a few months. CCP's only currency is the legitimacy of the game. That's all they have. 10 years from now EVE will look like Elite in relative terms of graphics and assuming no further development is done. People in this game make a 1 and 2 year plan (I had never even heard of such a thing in a game until I played this one) because they have faith in CCP's commitment to continue to develop the game and keep what few rules there are in place and adjudicated in an even handed way. Most of those subscriptions would go away if this were not the case. So to paraphrase my Marine drill instructor from boot: "we are all equally worthless pieces of sh**". No single pilot's subscription money makes that big a difference. The perception overall of EvE is what has value. If you combined your subscription fees with Mittens, CCP could buy a few rolling chairs for some coder's office. If the perception was that there is favoritism in eve and a nub can't get a fair shake, CCP's going to have to sell their whole building.

edit:
Ai Shun wrote:
...If, for example, I was engaged in RMT and were caught doing so I would expect a full ban immediately. This would seem fair to me, because, well. I broke the rules and in terms of my value to EVE Online I'm just another $15....

While it may seem fair to you a full on ban is not what would happen. You'd probably just get a warning and maybe loose some ISK (assuming it's a first time offence). You aren't worth much (just another 15/mo), but neither is anyONE else.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Ai Shun
#43 - 2012-02-13 04:57:20 UTC
Gogela wrote:
See... I disagree with this. In particular the way you are monetizing your "value" vs someone better known is wrong within the context of the policy.

-- snip ---

If the perception was that there is favoritism in eve and a nub can't get a fair shake, CCP's going to have to sell their whole building.


Ah, I hear you. If I gave the impression a new player would not get a fair shake, my apologies. I'd want them to get a fair shake according to the rules published by CCP. However, I see more value in the notoriety and fame that brand names like the Mittani and Chribba and others bring to EVE Online than I see in the value of their subscription dollars, so I am okay with the idea of people who are very visible testaments to EVE Online getting a bit more slack on their first offences.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#44 - 2012-02-13 06:52:37 UTC
OP is just a jealous nobody that probably got caught rmting or something to compensate for losing failfit myrmidons.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#45 - 2012-02-13 09:23:16 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:

I can't tell if you're trying to reassure us it doesn't exist. It certainly doesn't look like it.


Yeah, I think Tanya might be my favorite weird stalker - it's a tough competition though, I have a few

Duvida wrote:

This was offered to be planted/created in Iceland? Shocked (In Atlanta, she could just throw some Kudzu around, toss polka-dot paint on it and it'd look like 'streets of flowers')


just in New Eden Blink

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
Acac Sunflyier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-02-13 09:57:57 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Acac Sunflyier wrote:

I can't tell if you're trying to reassure us it doesn't exist. It certainly doesn't look like it.


Yeah, I think Tanya might be my favorite weird stalker - it's a tough competition though, I have a few

Duvida wrote:

This was offered to be planted/created in Iceland? Shocked (In Atlanta, she could just throw some Kudzu around, toss polka-dot paint on it and it'd look like 'streets of flowers')


just in New Eden Blink



Did you even read my original post? Or, is your lack of an out right denial an attempt to say there is favoritism when it comes to enforcing the EULA?
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#47 - 2012-02-13 10:00:48 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Acac Sunflyier wrote:

I can't tell if you're trying to reassure us it doesn't exist. It certainly doesn't look like it.


Yeah, I think Tanya might be my favorite weird stalker - it's a tough competition though, I have a few

Duvida wrote:

This was offered to be planted/created in Iceland? Shocked (In Atlanta, she could just throw some Kudzu around, toss polka-dot paint on it and it'd look like 'streets of flowers')


just in New Eden Blink



Did you even read my original post? Or, is your lack of an out right denial an attempt to say there is favoritism when it comes to enforcing the EULA?



I have nothing to do with banning people or seeing if people are enforcing the EULA. I just saw Tanya was talking about me so I replied to her. My reply to her wasn't a reply to your original post.

I'm sorry I posted unrelated stuff in your thread - won't post again.

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
Acac Sunflyier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2012-02-13 10:03:05 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Acac Sunflyier wrote:

I can't tell if you're trying to reassure us it doesn't exist. It certainly doesn't look like it.


Yeah, I think Tanya might be my favorite weird stalker - it's a tough competition though, I have a few

Duvida wrote:

This was offered to be planted/created in Iceland? Shocked (In Atlanta, she could just throw some Kudzu around, toss polka-dot paint on it and it'd look like 'streets of flowers')


just in New Eden Blink



Did you even read my original post? Or, is your lack of an out right denial an attempt to say there is favoritism when it comes to enforcing the EULA?



I have nothing to do with banning people or seeing if people are enforcing the EULA. I just saw Tanya was talking about me so I replied to her. My reply to her wasn't a reply to your original post.

I'm sorry I posted unrelated stuff in your thread - won't post again.



Oh god, I chased off the only CCP person I ever see do forum stuff. I'M SORRY!Attention
CCP Prism X
C C P
C C P Alliance
#49 - 2012-02-13 10:31:00 UTC
I dont know how the CCP officials which actually carry out our policy avoid any favouritism. There should be some basic due diligence and checks and balances in place, just like there are in any executive branch of any entity in the western world. This is why we have IA.

But favoritism is just a bad word for "experience". I show favoritism in all aspects of my life and do not feel that it is inappropriate. I will treat people differently based on my experience with them. For example I will avoid talking to that annoying guy who wouldn't leave me alone the last time I met him at the pub. I will also not buy him any drinks because he's shown that he's rather annoying when he is drunk and I don't feel like being annoyed.

This is of course not favouritism, but I would then most likely extend that opinion of mine to any of his friends that I do not know. Again this is because I do not want to be annoyed while I'm at the pub interacting with people and I'm not going to "test" their character and risk being stuck with someone explaining the finer points of his 2nd edition AD&D Paladin (I've been stuck in this conversation, yes. And I love AD&D.. at some point I just have to be allowed to talk as well because your Paladin is only that interesting to me).

But that just tells me how I deal with people in the pub. It has no effect on CCPs policy or the practice thereof. I just saw philosophical wonderings about the human condition and thought I'd post some nonsense about it. After all, I do like the sound of my fingers striking the keys! Blink

P.S. Be nice to Punkturis. I'd give you a reason but you shouldn't need one to be nice to people. Blink

CCP Prism X

Programmer on Team Gridlock & Expert Ranter
My Postman
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-02-13 10:31:50 UTC
Well, from remembering the "Monkey incident" which was (is) a member of PL, EULA was broken for MANY times/ways. And, as far as i know nobody was banned, so there might be some kind of "favors" for the biggies.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-02-13 10:53:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran
Officially? Of course CCP don't play favourites. Unofficially? Is anyone really naive enough to believe that it doesn't happen? The only thing you can do is hope that its not to widespread and doesn't shaft the players to any great extent. Not that I believe that CCP is particularly corrupt or anything, its just how it works for any company or service provider.

People who work in IT call centres at a telecoms firm get friends moved up the priority list, GMs from MMO providers pass things along to RL friends that play the game, the guy who works in supply's will get stationary for his friends.

All that day to day dodgyness and corruption is a part of life, CCP as a company made up of human beings isn't magically exempt from it.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#52 - 2012-02-13 11:06:06 UTC
My Postman wrote:
Well, from remembering the "Monkey incident" which was (is) a member of PL, EULA was broken for MANY times/ways. And, as far as i know nobody was banned, so there might be some kind of "favors" for the biggies.


Many assertions were made but nothing was actually proven IIRC.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#53 - 2012-02-13 12:04:17 UTC
CCP Prism X wrote:
For example I will avoid talking to that annoying guy who wouldn't leave me alone the last time I met him at the pub. I will also not buy him any drinks because he's shown that he's rather annoying when he is drunk and I don't feel like being annoyed.
All I wanted to know was what cool SELECT and UPDATE statements you used Sad

LolLolLol

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
oustade Habalu
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2012-02-13 12:07:32 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Officially? Of course CCP don't play favourites. Unofficially? Is anyone really naive enough to believe that it doesn't happen? The only thing you can do is hope that its not to widespread and doesn't shaft the players to any great extent. Not that I believe that CCP is particularly corrupt or anything, its just how it works for any company or service provider.

People who work in IT call centres at a telecoms firm get friends moved up the priority list, GMs from MMO providers pass things along to RL friends that play the game, the guy who works in supply's will get stationary for his friends.

All that day to day dodgyness and corruption is a part of life, CCP as a company made up of human beings isn't magically exempt from it.


This, its all there...


Also, this forum needs a "dislike" option, or just remove the "like" one.

Also, we are Writing, Not Talking!
ASadOldGit
Doomheim
#55 - 2012-02-13 12:24:26 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Gogela wrote:
See... I disagree with this. In particular the way you are monetizing your "value" vs someone better known is wrong within the context of the policy.

-- snip ---

If the perception was that there is favoritism in eve and a nub can't get a fair shake, CCP's going to have to sell their whole building.


Ah, I hear you. If I gave the impression a new player would not get a fair shake, my apologies. I'd want them to get a fair shake according to the rules published by CCP. However, I see more value in the notoriety and fame that brand names like the Mittani and Chribba and others bring to EVE Online than I see in the value of their subscription dollars, so I am okay with the idea of people who are very visible testaments to EVE Online getting a bit more slack on their first offences.

CCP could also use the fame of those people to their advantage, by forcing them to publicly apologise if they want to keep playing the game (in addition to a punishment, not a replacement), with the idea of raising the profile of that issue (EULA violation, botting, RMT, etc) and showing potential violators that anyone can and will be caught.

This signature intentionally left blank for you to fill in at your leisure.
Shazzam Vokanavom
Doomheim
#56 - 2012-02-13 13:56:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Shazzam Vokanavom
Chribba wrote:
CCP Prism X wrote:
For example I will avoid talking to that annoying guy who wouldn't leave me alone the last time I met him at the pub. I will also not buy him any drinks because he's shown that he's rather annoying when he is drunk and I don't feel like being annoyed.
All I wanted to know was what cool SELECT and UPDATE statements you used Sad

LolLolLol


What no IF THEN ELSE for cross referencing validity statements and coroboration? Blink

@OP;

Does favouratism exist? Yes, else the world would be grey.

"Are CCP corruptable?" I think is the question and ironically due to the nature of that questioning and who it's targetted at you either have faith in that or push for transparency or an informed view, but even then you would question the source if corruptability was an issue. Having reasonable doubts however is a healthy start rather than simply accepting things verbatum especially with some of the outlandish claims some of the CSM are pandering currently.

If I can ask the OP, what kind of responce would placate your suspicions?
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-02-13 14:38:24 UTC
Favoritism has existed in EVE for a very long time and there have been multiple incidents in the past due to this. Mostly because it is the negative part of developers communicating close with their player base. So alternatively we could have developers never posting on the forums and being (even moreP) out of touch with their player base than currently.

There have not been any major blatant favoritism incidents for some time now, but that generally just means that a new one will pop up soon as part of the cycle.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#58 - 2012-02-13 14:38:30 UTC
CCP Prism X wrote:

P.S. Be nice to Punkturis. I'd give you a reason but you shouldn't need one to be nice to people. Blink


God love you for trying but this the is EVE forums, are you new round here or something? Blink

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
oustade Habalu
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-02-13 14:51:49 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
CCP Prism X wrote:

P.S. Be nice to Punkturis. I'd give you a reason but you shouldn't need one to be nice to people. Blink


God love you for trying but this the is EVE forums, are you new round here or something? Blink



Well in his favor, at least the guy has the balls to admit his favoritism...

CCP Prism X wrote:
I show favoritism in all aspects of my life and do not feel that it is inappropriate.

Josef Djugashvilis
#60 - 2012-02-13 15:05:20 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
this guy thinks i log into eve online more than once in a blue moon

cute


Unless I am missing the point of some sort of Mittani whimsical joke, why is he on the CSM?

This is not a signature.