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Crime & Punishment

 
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Anti-Mining-Bot Coalition

Author
Gahagan
White Moon Aeronautics
#1 - 2012-02-12 05:08:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Gahagan
This is, as of now, an idea in planning. I am very interested in making it a reality, and would appreciate comments, criticisms, and feedback in order to better refine the idea. That said...

Mining bots are a blight. Day in and day out they steal ore and ice from honest, hardworking players toiling away at their keyboard, enduring unimaginable boredom, all for a player who is not even present to share in the pain.

It's entirely possible to report the bots, and tattle to CCP, and feel good about it, but this is a sandbox MMO. There's better solutions than snitching.

I've established a channel, [AMB Coalition], and a mailing list of the same name, for the joint location, termination, and blacklisting of suspected bots. I encourage anyone interested in driving up mineral prices, purifying belts, or just exploding barges to join.

How Can I Help?

You can help by locating and destroying players you suspect of being bots. Some good ways of determining whether a player is a bot...

* is the player mining random asteroids?
* is the player using shield boosters or rechargers instead of invulns and amplifiers?
* is the player relatively new, or in an NPC corp, or does the player have a security status of 0.0?
* is the player NOT using jetcans?

And most importantly,

* does the player respond to conversation invites, or perform actions such as warping to station without accepting them?

If a suspect player does any or all of the above, it is possible that he or she is a bot and should be destroyed.

I Don't Want To Shoot People, My Sec Status Is Precious, Blah Blah

I'd really love to be able to offer bounties and ship replacements for anyone actively participating in the destruction of bots. Anyone with a sufficiently deep wallet is welcome to contribute.

What If I Don't Want To Look For Bots?

Once we have identified a certain number of bots, I plan on publishing a blacklist of any player definitively identified as a bot. I will make this list available and you can, through the use of contacts and locator agents, find potential targets at your own leisure, without exerting the effort of having to identify potential bots.

I Already Do This, What Do I Need Your Stupid Channel And Mailing List For?

I seek to facilitate the process of bot destruction. When I am killing bots on my own I fly a Brutix. If I had a friend to kill bots with we could both use Catalysts, saving ourselves money and potentially even turning a profit. Further, the channel and mailing list should serve to coordinate and strengthen the ability of gankers in different sectors of space to work together in identifying and tracking potential bots, if they try to relocate after termination.

I strongly encourage anyone with comments or suggestions to post here, or talk to me in-game.
IsTheOpOver
#2 - 2012-02-12 05:30:22 UTC
Gahagan wrote:
...
* is the player mining random asteroids?
* is the player using shield boosters or rechargers instead of invulns and hardeners?
* is the player relatively new, or in an NPC corp, or does the player have a security status of 0.0?
* is the player NOT using jetcans?

And most importantly,

* does the player respond to conversation invites, or perform actions such as warping to station without accepting them?

If a suspect player does any or all of the above, it is possible that he or she is a bot and should be destroyed.
...


Based on your criteria above, I don't think I'd put too much faith in the validity of your blacklist.

Other than that, I'm all for killing bots.
Gahagan
White Moon Aeronautics
#3 - 2012-02-12 05:40:56 UTC
If there's some ruffians hanging out in a belt in Brutixes or Catalysts and they want to talk to you, I'd think you would be inclined to find out what they want.

And since you can't really warp to a station while you're afk, you're either accepting the fact that something bad is about to happen to you, or you aren't present to understand that something bad is about to happen to you.

Provided anyone interested in following these criteria actually does attempt to convo the pilot in question I see no problem with having the convo invite be the defining evidence.
IsTheOpOver
#4 - 2012-02-12 05:46:40 UTC
I like Smodab's criteria... if their pod warps back and forth to the station, you probably are dealing with a bot Smile

Lots of players wont accept convos from unknowns.. I don't think this is very definitive.

It's really the flashy red -10 catalysts that worry me the most. Then again they never really say much until afterwards.
Heimer
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-02-12 12:08:28 UTC
Gahagan wrote:
* is the player using shield boosters or rechargers instead of invulns and hardeners?


Invulns are hardeners.


Gahagan wrote:
* is the player NOT using jetcans?


Most noobs learn that jetcan mining is a bad idea in a short amount of time.


So, while I, too, am all for the destruction of bots, your points (these two, and the others) seem a bit shaky.
Gahagan
White Moon Aeronautics
#6 - 2012-02-12 16:43:22 UTC
Do you have some suggestions for a better way to determine whether a barge is a bot? I've seen some what warp immediately when targeted, perhaps that could be a better cue.

But I've also seen some that don't, so it's a toss-up.
boliano
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-02-12 17:24:27 UTC
Well one sign is they warp in to the exact same posistion over and over, least i was told that was what bots do
Cardval Simalia
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-02-12 17:41:54 UTC
If only CCP gave 2 ***** about botting and banned them? Oh wait they don't. Quit moaning, if you can't beat them join them.
Officer Nyota Uhura
#9 - 2012-02-12 18:30:58 UTC
Gahagan wrote:
Anti-Mining Bot Coalition


Who are this "bot coalition" and why are they against miners?
Gahagan
White Moon Aeronautics
#10 - 2012-02-12 18:53:22 UTC
Cardval Simalia wrote:
If only CCP gave 2 ***** about botting and banned them? Oh wait they don't. Quit moaning, if you can't beat them join them.


Congratulations on completely missing the point. Because CCP doesn't do anything, we're going to go shoot them. Because we can.
EnslaverOfMinmatar
You gonna get aped
#11 - 2012-02-13 03:32:13 UTC
How dare you!

Every EVE player must read this http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=29-01-07

Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#12 - 2012-02-13 06:05:46 UTC
Gahagan wrote:
Cardval Simalia wrote:
If only CCP gave 2 ***** about botting and banned them? Oh wait they don't. Quit moaning, if you can't beat them join them.


Congratulations on completely missing the point. Because CCP doesn't do anything, we're going to go shoot them. Because we can.


I am confident that CCP really is trying their best to combat the bot problem. But some players here feel that CCP is not doing enough to deal with the bot problem. Therefore, capsuleers throughout New Eden are taking matters into their own hands and are beginning to utilize the new tier 3 BCs and buffed up dessies to wipe them all out however they can. Even before Crucible, we have witnessed a massive spike in aimless suicide ganks ranging from the typical career gankers to the Gallente ice interdiction that allowed the goons to almost corner the market. With enough incentives, more aimless ganks will come.

Communication = Unit Cohesion

Me, Ninjaspud, and several others have already tried creating our own anti-bot group a long time ago. Unfortunately, it was very short lived and it began to fall apart as soon as communication started falling apart (which was just as quick). The channel went quiet for too long and thus I ended up giving up in the end because I felt no one was paying attention. Important lesson: if you're communication is crap, then unit cohesion is crap. I was only able to participate in one gank and that was on a single mackinaw that I didn't know about earlier when I previously reported other possible bots (groups of them).

Experience

I have plenty of hunting experience scouting for possible bots while being careful to not accidentally target innocent miners. Just recently, I came up with an Google-docs form that a player can fill out and submit. The data is then transmitted to an excel spreadsheet that helps compile the data into a useful format that can help trace potential bots and their habits.

During my hunts, I would learn about new patterns and techniques that bots may be using to avoid detection by both CCP and career gankers. One such pattern was so subtle, I didn't notice it until I stepped back and saw the bigger picture. It was so clever, it made sense.

The technique I am talking about here is about spreading the ships. In an ice system in Kamio, I noticed that a bunch of Macks that shared the following traits.


  • Same fitting (active shield tanks - shield boosters always on).

  • Mining in groups of X (number) ships each (in this case, it was three groups with three macks each).

  • Each group was warping back and forth as individuals (not as a group).

  • Each character was in a wide array of npc corps (yet for some reason some had closely related names).

  • Each group was even space from one another along the chain of ice roids. Possibly to mitigate the loss if one group gets ganked.


Besides that, this group was not talkative in a sense that all eve mail messages (in addition to chat invites) would charge you ISK before being able to submit a request. Even if you accepted the charges, the invites were rejected and the eve mails were rejected as well (on all ships).

Chances are bots may be using similar patterns elsewhere. I haven't been to Kamio in a long time, I don't know if the group I was talking about is still there.

One more thing

Just before communication broke down with the last bot hunters I worked with, Ninjaspud did pass along some important information that may be helpful to you. According to a former bot user (who reported only to Ninjaspud and asked him to remain anonymous), the large number of the bot programs that are out there have a critical flaw. Apparently, they can't swap different mining crystals on the fly as they progress along an asteroid belt (especially for the OCR-based programs). This means that if an OCR-based bot is mining a belt and has run out of veldspar in that belt, it can't swap crystals on the field for the next ore type.

Bot programs that tap into the client directly are able to swap different crystals when needed on the fly, but this makes them more likely to be detected by CCP's ban hammer.

I hope to join you soon in your endeavors and I hope this information has been helpful to you.

Adapt or Die

Ana K
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-02-13 17:27:39 UTC
Hey we talked a while ago about me joining you in this! I can fly a T1 Brutix, but if there are the two of us, we can do it in something much less. My skills are a bit better now.

Contact me in game please. I'll join the channel. Add me to the mailing list. I can start asap. I'm close to Jita.
Kali Fin
White SANDS SPACE
#14 - 2012-02-13 19:28:55 UTC
Gahagan wrote:
Do you have some suggestions for a better way to determine whether a barge is a bot? I've seen some what warp immediately when targeted, perhaps that could be a better cue.

But I've also seen some that don't, so it's a toss-up.


Keep track of how long they are in the belts or logged on. If everyone in corp can keep track of how long players are online via watchlist, they can figure out if they're a bot easily: If they're on for more than 18 hours a day (life much?) then they're probably a bot.

Watching a pod warp back and forth from belts is the easiest and most tell-tale way to figure it out. Gank 'em all and let CCP sort it out!

Also, the whole convo thing is a fairly decent way of telling, except that a bunch of people in my alliance usually go AFK with civ shield boosters up and running, usually mining the closest random asteroid (as they clear belts on a regular basis), and warp to station if people in combat ships come to the belt. No one in highsec rats in the belts in anything larger than a frigate...

The only way to get rid of bots is to gank everything, then watch the pods. Also keeping track of how long some toons are actively mining.

I have schemed too long to be supplanted by dead gods. If I cannot have this world, no one can.

Gahagan
White Moon Aeronautics
#15 - 2012-02-15 05:03:02 UTC
Thank you all for the suggestions. I'll update the initial post when I have time, and incorporate new advice in.

Also moving this back to the top for some more visibility.
Lana Torrin
Friends of Tristan
#16 - 2012-02-15 06:44:58 UTC
If you need to justify ganking miners then you are doing it wrong.
ewano1 wilson
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-02-15 15:33:52 UTC
if you suspect that there is a mining bot in the asteroid belt you are in, dock at staition and a fit micro warp drive and some over

drive's and go back to the belt and try to start convo. If no response after 2-3 min's approach ship, when close, head to one of the

asteroid's that the suspected bot is mining and when half way turn back and approach and activate micro warp drive and bump

the ship away from asteroid. may take several trie's to get the ship out of mining lazer/strip miner range but it work's. tried it

yesterday on two hulk's, one didin't start a convo to compain but went back to mining after 5 min's the other did complain and i

apologised afterward's.
BuzzyBeagle
Centers for Intergalactic Mercantile Acquisition
#18 - 2012-02-15 15:41:03 UTC
i killed a hulkbot last week. will the OP be sending me the ISK to replace my Tornado?
Pls send the ISK id this is the case and i will repeat on more bots.