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CSM - Do you think? (... continued)

First post First post
Author
The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#341 - 2011-10-26 05:27:54 UTC
Desudes wrote:

Seriously, wheres the on-ramp to null? Seeing people try to join the goons and get scammed out of 500mil is funny, but unproductive.


This is terribly ignorant. The on-ramp to null is called "npc space". Go to Syndicate, Curse, NPC Pure Blind, NPC Delve, Venal, etc. Corps get a taste of nullsec with no risk of getting locked out of stations.

~hi~

Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#342 - 2011-10-26 05:31:56 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Desudes wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Desudes wrote:
Seriously, wheres the on-ramp to null? Seeing people try to join the goons and get scammed out of 500mil is funny, but unproductive.

Recruitment scams are idiot filters.

Do you want idiots who fall for recruitment scams in your corp?

If so, I have a bridge for ya


You're missing my point, and reinforcing it: there is no clear path to 0.0 unless you already know your way around.

I came out here without knowing, and my corp just ended a recruiting drive aimed mainly at new players and getting them out to nullsec. Shocked

Next falsehood? Lol


I did the same on my first EVE character; blind luck landed me in a veteran pvp corp. Good times, wish I had stuck with EVE back then.

Guess what? The reliability of that is such that you will not see a huge migration of players to 0.0.

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?

Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#343 - 2011-10-26 05:35:51 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
Desudes wrote:

Seriously, wheres the on-ramp to null? Seeing people try to join the goons and get scammed out of 500mil is funny, but unproductive.


This is terribly ignorant. The on-ramp to null is called "npc space". Go to Syndicate, Curse, NPC Pure Blind, NPC Delve, Venal, etc. Corps get a taste of nullsec with no risk of getting locked out of stations.


New players are ignorant. Ignorant people can't find their way to null sec. Null sec isn't as popular as it wants to be.

See where I'm going with this?

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?

The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#344 - 2011-10-26 05:49:48 UTC
EVE doesn't make excuses for people's unwillingness to avail themselves of freely-available information.

This is why people still try to mine in Gallente space, for example.

~hi~

Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#345 - 2011-10-26 05:51:51 UTC
Desudes wrote:
New players are ignorant. Ignorant people can't find their way to null sec. Null sec isn't as popular as it wants to be.

See where I'm going with this?

Going after goons is the wrong rant tho. Goons are the single most pro-newbie entity in game. They recruit noobs, train noobs... Hell, they do their best to teach non-goon noobs the realities of Eve. If you actually stop and read the trolls they leave behind, its remarkably educational about how to survive in eve Cool

If you want to rail against people keeping new players out of null, rail against PL, camping Amamake with titans, or BoB for creating the elitist mindset about null.

The nullsec culture has been changing to be WAY more noob friendly in the 4 years I have played, and goons are pretty much why. Afterall, a fleet of noobs can clog the barrels of your battleship guns with the sheer mass of their rifter wreckage.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#346 - 2011-10-26 06:13:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Desudes
The Mittani wrote:
EVE doesn't make excuses for people's unwillingness to avail themselves of freely-available information.

This is why people still try to mine in Gallente space, for example.


Then EVE won't get people the subscriptions, much less people in 0.0.

People got into and stayed in games like WoW because they could easy figure it out. Some people left, looking for more substance (myself included, coming from Everquest before WoW): those people are a minority.

Tallian Saotome wrote:
Desudes wrote:
New players are ignorant. Ignorant people can't find their way to null sec. Null sec isn't as popular as it wants to be.

See where I'm going with this?

Going after goons is the wrong rant tho. Goons are the single most pro-newbie entity in game. They recruit noobs, train noobs... Hell, they do their best to teach non-goon noobs the realities of Eve. If you actually stop and read the trolls they leave behind, its remarkably educational about how to survive in eve Cool

If you want to rail against people keeping new players out of null, rail against PL, camping Amamake with titans, or BoB for creating the elitist mindset about null.

The nullsec culture has been changing to be WAY more noob friendly in the 4 years I have played, and goons are pretty much why. Afterall, a fleet of noobs can clog the barrels of your battleship guns with the sheer mass of their rifter wreckage.


Not meaning to be railing against anybody, just telling you why you don't have people in null.

It's not impossible to get into by any means, but compared to the linear progression that seems to be required for most people to progress in a game, you may as well ask people to climb Mt. Everest.

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?

Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#347 - 2011-10-26 06:24:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallian Saotome
Desudes wrote:
Not meaning to be railing against anybody, just telling you why you don't have people in null.

It's not impossible to get into by any means, but compared to the linear progression that seems to be required for most people to progress in a game, you may as well ask people to climb Mt. Everest.

if you are progressing linearly in eve, your doing it wrong.

Linear progression means your not taking risks. Taking risks is a central part of eve.

Your progression SHOULD be a series of peaks and troughs, matching up with making new friends(at which point you begin to excel) and getting blowed the hell up during that one moment when you had all your assets in your hold.

If you have linear progression in eve, you need to quit hiding, and come play the game.


Edit, I just soaked in you other comments in the post above. You lost this whole thing by effectively saying that you think eve should be more like wow. Even when its true, saying it means this thread will now get trolled out of existence.

Better luck next time!

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#348 - 2011-10-26 06:29:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Desudes
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Desudes wrote:
Not meaning to be railing against anybody, just telling you why you don't have people in null.

It's not impossible to get into by any means, but compared to the linear progression that seems to be required for most people to progress in a game, you may as well ask people to climb Mt. Everest.

if you are progressing linearly in eve, your doing it wrong.

Linear progression means your not taking risks. Taking risks is a central part of eve.

Your progression SHOULD be a series of peaks and troughs, matching up with making new friends(at which point you begin to excel) and getting blowed the hell up during that one moment when you had all your assets in your hold.

If you have linear progression in eve, you need to quit hiding, and come play the game.


Edit, I just soaked in you other comments in the post above. You lost this whole thing by effectively saying that you think eve should be more like wow. Even when its true, saying it means this thread will now get trolled out of existence.

Better luck next time!


What? I never said EVE should be more like WoW. I pointed out why one got to 10million subscribers and why one never will.

As for progression: that's your point of view and perfectly valid.

My only point is simply that the harder it is to get access to content the fewer people you will have playing that content and thus nerfing high sec to increase population in low/null sec is not going to work.


And if anyone thinks my post means I believe WoW is the better game or some other such non-sense that I definitely didn't say: I have 3 active EVE accounts and my WoW account was given away in disgust.

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?

Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#349 - 2011-10-26 06:40:43 UTC
Desudes wrote:

People got into and stayed in games like WoW because they could easy figure it out. Some people left, looking for more substance (myself included, coming from Everquest before WoW): those people are a minority.

That sure reads like 'we should be like wow'

But to address your concern of eve never being as big... Good.

Wow got so big they couldn't actually make it fun anymore. They were trying so hard to make everyone happy, they forgot that most people are dumb, and they market to children to boot.

Eve is a niche game. They set out to make it a cold, hard, unforgiving universe, not to look like one. Because of that it will never have the draw wow does, tho alot of people come to the game under that impression, due to how famous the game is.

As the unofficial motto of CCP says, HTFU

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#350 - 2011-10-26 06:56:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Desudes
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Desudes wrote:
People got into and stayed in games like WoW because they could easy figure it out. Some people left, looking for more substance (myself included, coming from Everquest before WoW): those people are a minority.

That sure reads like 'we should be like wow'

But to address your concern of eve never being as big... Good.

Wow got so big they couldn't actually make it fun anymore. They were trying so hard to make everyone happy, they forgot that most people are dumb, and they market to children to boot.

Eve is a niche game. They set out to make it a cold, hard, unforgiving universe, not to look like one. Because of that it will never have the draw wow does, tho alot of people come to the game under that impression, due to how famous the game is.

As the unofficial motto of CCP says, HTFU


I don't have a concern. I just saw some posts arguing about null sec accessibility and that nerfing high sec to increase population in low/null was what is happening. Maybe I'm slightly delusional (meant to be asleep hours ago...), or ended up posting in the wrong thread (had 3 or 4 open...). I think I skipped a few pages in the thread to...

Anyway: if you want people to play a certain way, show them how, don't turn an elitist nose up at them and say "figure it out". (this towards Mittani, self righteous much?) Off to bed I go...

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?

Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#351 - 2011-10-26 07:19:07 UTC
Desudes wrote:
I don't have a concern. I just saw some posts arguing about null sec accessibility and that nerfing high sec to increase population in low/null was what is happening. Maybe I'm slightly delusional (meant to be asleep hours ago...), or ended up posting in the wrong thread (had 3 or 4 open...). I think I skipped a few pages in the thread to...

Anyway: if you want people to play a certain way, show them how, don't turn an elitist nose up at them and say "figure it out". (this towards Mittani, self righteous much?) Off to bed I go...

Eve is a game where you DO need to figure it out for yourself.

I was handed alot by RL friends who played the game when I first started, and didn't need to learn alot of the noob stuff. Then those friends left the game, and I was stuck not knowing how to fit, not knowing how to grind rep, any of that. This was in highsec, so it wasn't even that I was in a hard part of the game.

I ended up quitting a month later because I was bored mining, the only thing I knew how to do.

When I came back, I was dragged out to null by a different RL friend, and told to figure it out on my own(he snuck me into an elite pvp corp, who would kick me for asking noob questions). I figured out huge amounts of the game in that time, and have stuck to it since.

If your reaction to 'figure it out' is 'no, TELL ME' then if is not the game for you. Everything you need to know is on google(or broski tutorials), so its not like its even that hard to find it for yourself anymore.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Elson Tamar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#352 - 2011-10-26 10:53:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Elson Tamar
There isnt a high sec nerf, its a reallocation of risk vs reward. If that makes sense. The more risk the more reward.
There are a lot of different attitudes about eve, and most quite polarising. I think the issue is that we need to let peopel find their feet in their own time. One argument is that if you want to play in high sec you have that choice, but you wont have access to all the content i.e. risk reward which is a cornerstone of eve so im told. The other oposing argument is im paying for content, gimmie.

As a new player i am siding with risk/reward. If you want high sec safe, put it on another server, its the only way and that would be ****. So we have the situation we are in now.

Lowsec is not a gate wau to null however and if you are interested in industry/minning however and not PVP how do you make that move? as a small corp it seems, from what i have been told, to make that move without PL (whom have assploded me the most, although always polite and friendly about it and giving me tips on what to fit for pvp, which i natural check against friends and battle clinic), the goons (one of my closest friends and a very long term eve vet pointed out that syndicate is a crap place to start out in becasue of them, i trust him and his opinion, feel free to correct me.) and other alliances mudering the little guys..

From real world and eve world this is as it should be, however when you get into game design issues. Majority have fun, new people coming in from the outside find it difficult to enter in at the ground level. Now if sov changes so that it is harder to hold onto large tracks of null that your not activly using this may make a big difference. Also more incursions in null will help force alliances and corps in null to stay focused on their areas, especialy if null incursion rewards go up as you will be fending off foriegn incursion runners.

Oh sorry rambling now, one other thing that really irritaes me is accusations of bot miniing in high sec. Now i maybe miss informed, by friends, Eon and local but dont most alliance bot mine just to keep up sov payments? If this is true and i am inclined to belive it, then that kind of hypocrytic behaviour is disgusting.

If someone would like to take the time to help me get my head around the reality of null that would be nice as i woul move a jump clone into syndicate right now if i though id have a chance!

Also what would make the game better for everyone? im not talking about just giving into everyone, but what would be acceptable for everyone? what would promotecahanges in behaviour in a positive way that would reward players form makeing changes rather than punishing for not? I teach kids with Autism btw and using positrive renforcement works, negative renforecment leads to arguments and stress.... hmm see what i did there? Big smile
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#353 - 2011-10-26 15:11:52 UTC
Elson Tamar wrote:

Oh sorry rambling now, one other thing that really irritaes me is accusations of bot miniing in high sec. Now i maybe miss informed, by friends, Eon and local but dont most alliance bot mine just to keep up sov payments? If this is true and i am inclined to belive it, then that kind of hypocrytic behaviour is disgusting.

This is untrue. Some do, and some nullsec player bot as individuals as well, however most don't. Some of us maintain anti-bot policies(I have seen to KOS order go out over an alliance bot who got caught before), as well as groups dedicated to hunting the free kills in other peoples space. If you hold less than a whole region as a power bloc, unlikely that you could manage it due to the number of hostile incursions. Its easy to spot a bot, and once you do its easy to teach it to let you kill it.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#354 - 2011-10-26 16:41:45 UTC
(Btw: Anyone seen a reason from a GM or Dev why they are shoving all the CMS threads in here?)

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#355 - 2011-10-26 16:47:04 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
(Btw: Anyone seen a reason from a GM or Dev why they are shoving all the CMS threads in here?)


Because it's a section of the forums dedicated to csm-related discussions?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#356 - 2011-10-26 16:55:10 UTC
Elise DarkStar wrote:


Because it's a section of the forums dedicated to csm-related discussions?


Newly made?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#357 - 2011-10-26 16:56:03 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
EVE doesn't make excuses for people's unwillingness to avail themselves of freely-available information.

This is why people still try to mine in Gallente space, for example.


They can keep mining ice there, just need to treat it like WH mining.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#358 - 2011-10-26 17:08:22 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Newly made?


Huhn?

The CSM section of the forums dedicated to CSM-related issues has been around for a long time, and all CSM-related material has been moved to the CSM-related section of the forums since that section was created specifically for such topics and discussions.

I hope that's clear enough.
Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#359 - 2011-10-26 17:23:27 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
(Btw: Anyone seen a reason from a GM or Dev why they are shoving all the CMS threads in here?)

Because they know they will receive fewer views in this forum. They are trying to discourage all the badposting.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#360 - 2011-10-26 17:30:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Quote:
This is a business not a "game" about spaceship



Whatever makes more money wins.


The optimum business model is to keep the people in empire happy and the people in null sec happy. To produce mindless carebears that do nothing but pile up ISK and idiot Nullbears who do the same thing in 0.0, flying in massive fleets like sheep, thinking that they are better because they do.



More subscriptions!
Down with the "EVE Faith Religion!"


Grow up tools and get a life outside of this MMO.


P.S.
Yes you can do both.

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